30 People hurt in Turbulence--- One Critically

[RachelEllen]

Either place, car or plane, the risk is small. Why is it ok to risk injury in a plane but not in a car?

We all make judgments about how much risk is ok. Heck, if you drive to the grocery store rather than hire grocery delivery or hire a sitter, you have made a decision that the risk of dying or being severely injured in a car crash on the way to the store is so tiny, you are not willing to pay to get rid of that risk. Parents who fly with lap infants are making that same sort of decision. For every news story about people injured on planes, you can find many more cases of people dying in car crashes who just went out to run a few errands. It just doesn't make the news.

I'm saying there is actually more risk to an infant /in a carseat/ in a car than in an airplane on a lap. (I can post statistics if you like)

Do you think it is wrong for parents to drive their kids for any trip for which a plane trip would be possible? If not, why is that an ok economic decision but flying with a lap baby isn't?

 

[goofy4tink]

Okay.....since we seem to be on the 'drive vs fly safety' issue...
when my kids were in a car, they were always, and I do mean always, belted in. When my kids fly, they are belted in..always.
I prefer to err on the side of overcaution when flying. I just know that if I were to be flying with a lap baby, it would be that flight that encountered turbulence. I realize that the vast majority of flights are going to be just fine, but all it takes is that one flight with major turbulence.

That is my choice. Others may make another choice. Just giving you the reasons for my 'choice'. I prefer not to take that particular chance. Others may feel it is worth the risk. And they are most likely going to be fine...the majority of the time.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Because the actual risk of injury to the child is very small. Think about it. This incident, where 30 people were /injured/ made the news. About 100 people died today in automobile accidents.

As has been brought up here many times, your child is safer as a lap baby in an airplane than as a restrained infant in a car.

Are you willing to tell everyone who drives their infant to WDW that they are putting a price on their child's head because they do not pay for airline tickets?

I will again ask: is there any reason other than purely financial to not purchase a plane ticket/seat for a child under the age of two?

I don't care that the FAA doesn't require a passenger this young. That's not my question.

I understand that if you don't put an infant in ANY mode of transportation, that child cannot be harmed while being transported. That's not my question either.

I simply want to know why, other than purely financial, any person would NOT purchase an airline seat for a passenger of any age. Thank you.

 

[RachelEllen]

I will again ask: is there any reason other than purely financial to not purchase a plane ticket/seat for a child under the age of two?

I don't care that the FAA doesn't require a passenger this young. That's not my question.

I understand that if you don't put an infant in ANY mode of transportation, that child cannot be harmed while being transported. That's not my question either.

I simply want to know why, other than purely financial, any person would NOT purchase an airline seat for a passenger of any age. Thank you.

Of course the reason is usually financial. So what?

Every day, every parent makes decisions about the safety of their child, and, every day, finances will play a big part in those decisions.

So I don't quite get the question.

Instead, I think each person should be asking:

1) For /me/ is the safety vs cost trade-off appropriate?
(Only you can answer that)

2) Is the safety vs cost trade-off to the level that I think I should be telling other people what to do? (As in car seats. Relatively small, one time cost that makes a large safety difference. Or, putting an infant to sleep on their back. Smaller beneft for any given baby - but normally cost free)

My issue isn't with people who buy seats for infants. I buy a seat for my own infant! It's with people that get stridant and insulting about people who choose differently. I'd be willing to bet that if we look carefully (or not that carefully) we could find many cost vs safety issues /on the same order/ as lap baby vs non lap baby that you make on a daily basis without even thinking twice. I find that hypocritical.

So, I answered your question. Answer mine. Are the people throwing around lines like "putting a price on your child's head" willing to break into threads about driving to Disney and tell people the same thing about not flying to Disney?

 

[JenC025]

Why am I reading this thread??? People like me who are terrified of flying do not belong here. I vaguely remember a turbulent flight I was so tired and slept most of the flight and I didn't have kids. I don't think I'd handle it well at all experiencing any of this.

 

[maxiesmom]

If people posted about how they planned on driving to WDW and didn't intend to use car seats or seatbelts, then I would comment on that as well.

When it comes to a cost versus safety equasion let me ask you this: Did you buy your child a bike helmet? If they skate, would you buy pads? Most parents do, even though the odds are they are not needed. So the issue seems to be that once you go over about $200, people all of a sudden decide safety equipment is too expensive. That seems to be an awful low price to put on your child' safety.

 

[Friendly Frog]

Why am I reading this thread??? People like me who are terrified of flying do not belong here. I vaguely remember a turbulent flight I was so tired and slept most of the flight and I didn't have kids. I don't think I'd handle it well at all experiencing any of this.

I was just thinking the same thing!

Since the original post is about turbulence and seat belts, this is my turbulence story;

I felt like a rock-star. I was invited by friends on a ski trip to Aspen traveling in their (business) private plane. The owner of the plane had two highly qualified, experienced pilots who flew the plane for him.

On the way we ran into bad weather and the co-pilot informed us that all air traffic ahead was being diverted, so we may be landing somewhere unexpected. He told us that he would keep us posted, but that we need to be sure that all our things were securely stowed and that we should remain in our seat belts.

Once we got a little closer, we were told that a window had opened in the weather and that we were given the OK to go in. Hooray! About 15 minutes later, the airplane really started to shutter. It was rough, but I have been bounced around on planes before. Yes, I was nervous but it would be OK. It would be OK.. It would...

It got rougher... and everyone got quiet. I am now reaching for the air sickness bag, but I am on the couch and it is so bumpy that I am having difficulty reaching it. Thank goodness that I did not unfasten my seat belt, because in the next instance it all became surreal.

You could hear the plane engines become LOUD. You could feel the g force. My mind raced " We are falling out of the air"! It sounded just like in a war movie when a plane is shot down. It all happened quickly I know, but it was like in slow motion to me. Items were breaking loose from secured locations. Heavy flight books flew out from the cockpit curtain. I saw personal items, birthday cake and toilet paper appear to stick to the ceiling as if weightless. (Yes that is correct, even some of the contents of the toilet escaped.) But the most frightening thing I saw was the faces of my friends! White as ghosts, even the face of the plane's owner, a seasoned flyer who has seen his fair share of bad weather and turbulence.

Once it settled down, it was a little time before any of us spoke. I think the co-pilot checked on us... strangely enough that part is fuzzy. I remember that once we landed the pilot told us that were were not only slammed down, but we were tossed back up with equal force. He told us how many feet each direction, and how quickly, but at that point I was having an intimate relationship with the ground, so I can't remember the details.

In the end, the plane was fine, and thanks to our seat belts we were fine. The pilots were very professional and we even joked with them because our ordeal was over, but they had to clean the birthday cake and toilet paper mess that covered the inside of the plane.


The flight home was uneventful...and very quiet.

The friend sold the plane a few months later.

 

[bumbershoot]

but at that point I was having an intimate relationship with the ground, so I can't remember the details.

Your story is terrifying, but that line was hilarious!

 

[jodifla]

Statistically so few lap babies are injured in flight it's pretty much a non-statistic. Your child is in more danger on the Magical Express bus than they are on the plane, or any time you put them in the car. And the whole "but buses are compartmentalized" didn't help all those people killed in the past few years when their buses rolled on the highway.

For most people, yep, it's about the money. I never paid for a seat before my child was 2....nor did any of my friends. The risk was SO low, it was worth taking. Because pretty much, it wasn't going to happen.

And it didn't.

 

[jodifla]

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_safe/turbulence/


From the FAA website:

Why is it important to follow these safety regulations? Consider this:

* In nonfatal accidents, in-flight turbulence is the leading cause of injuries to airline passengers and flight attendants.
* Each year, approximately 58 people in the United States are injured by turbulence while not wearing their seat belts.
* From 1980 through 2008, U.S. air carriers had 234 turbulence accidents*, resulting in 298 serious injuries and three fatalities.
* Of the 298 serious injuries, 184 involved flight attendants and 114 involved passengers.
* At least two of the three fatalities involved passengers who were not wearing their seat belts while the seat belt sign was illuminated.
* Generally, two-thirds of turbulence-related accidents occur at or above 30,000 feet.


SO, in the past almost 30 YEARS, there have been 3 fatalities and 114 injured seriously among what, about 600 million flights EACH YEAR?

Really, I can't understand why people choose to get so worked up over this, or continue to berate people who make the totally RATIONAL decision to fly with lap babies.

 

[tiggerplus5]

Statistically so few lap babies are injured in flight it's pretty much a non-statistic. Your child is in more danger on the Magical Express bus than they are on the plane, or any time you put them in the car. And the whole "but buses are compartmentalized" didn't help all those people killed in the past few years when their buses rolled on the highway.

For most people, yep, it's about the money. I never paid for a seat before my child was 2....nor did any of my friends. The risk was SO low, it was worth taking. Because pretty much, it wasn't going to happen.

And it didn't.

Hmmmm. So do any of the posters that are against lap babies use Magical Express, or any bus on wdw property for that matter, for their precious cargo. What do you think happens if the bus flips over? Does EVERYONE rent cars?

I also have a question to all the same posters, the parents that are adamant that their child always be buckled securely. What do you do if the child has to use the restrooms? Do you really refuse to let them unbuckle and go potty? Sometimes, there is no warning with turbulence. So what is the solution? Pull ups? Adult diapers? Just wondering..

 

[jodifla]

Hmmmm. So do any of the posters that are against lap babies use Magical Express, or any bus on wdw property for that matter, for their precious cargo. What do you think happens if the bus flips over? Does EVERYONE rent cars?

I also have a question to all the same posters, the parents that are adamant that their child always be buckled securely. What do you do if the child has to use the restrooms? Do you really refuse to let them unbuckle and go potty? Sometimes, there is no warning with turbulence. So what is the solution? Pull ups? Adult diapers? Just wondering..

exactly.

We hit bad turbulence on the way home from Cape Cod last week. My son was just walking back from the bathroom....the flight attendant from first class sat on the floor in the back cabin and instructed my husband, who was in the bathroom, to stay there.

DS made it back to his seat OK, buckled in. It was very bouncy. But if he HAD been an infant, I'd have had no trouble holding him.

 

[MrsNick]

I don't think that anyone can dispute that a baby on a plane is safer in her own seat buckled in than a lap baby. Period.

That said, I don't actually have any animosity towards other parents who choose to fly with lap babies. I think that because the FAA allows lap babies, a lot of people simply believe that it must be safe. I don't think that they know the FAA's reasoning behind the rule which is that if lap babies weren't permitted, a large percentage of those people would choose to drive instead of fly and driving is more dangerous statistically.

Were it not for this fact, I believe the FAA would not permit lap babies. The NTSB has stated its position that all passengers should have their own seats and be buckled in.

We've heard from flight attendants on this thread who have witnessed people become injured during turbulence. Others on this thread have chimed in about their frightening experiences during turbulence. And yet, there are people who just don't believe it can happen to them.

The chance of turbulence is low, but most of us keep our seatbelts on in the airplane, don't we? Why bother protecting ourselves with a seatbelt if the chance of injury due to turbulence is low? This is my response to people who say that since the chance of injury due to turbulence is so low then why bother purchasing a seat for an infant?

The funny thing about statistics is this: they aren't really meaningful until someone you love becomes that statistic.