2018 BWV Proposed Maintenance Fees Now Online - 1.11% Increase

[Maverick]

Just received the online notice of the proposed 2018 maintenance fees for BWV. Total is $6.5496 per point which is an increase of 1.11% over 2017 ($6.47765 PP). I can live with 1.11%!

High level breakdown:

Operating Budget - $3.9923 PP
Reserves - $1.0596 PP
Ad Valorem Tax - $1.4977 PP
Total dues - $6.5496 PP

This must be adopted at the December meeting before it's official, but should be correct unless they made some kind of error.

Thanks,
Mav

 

[erionm]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/2018-dvc-budgets-are-released.3646005/

 

[suebeelin]

I saw this! This is wonderful! I remember the days when BWV was considered the most expensive (besides Vero or HHI), and was the red headed step sister (although I didn't mind because of the location)!

On the downside, I also own BLT, and they went up 5% yet again....

 

[SL6827]

red headed step sister

Now there is no shame in being red-headed.

 

[CarolMN]

I'm hoping someone has the time to do a comparison of operating costs between all the WDW DVC resorts (and is willing to share).

I did a very quick comparison back of the envelope comparison between BCV & BWV - the difference is now just over $0.10 a point. So on 100 points that's about $10 more per year for BWV than the BCV in annual dues.

The operating budget portions were almost exactly the same. 4.1578 for BWV and 4.1574 for BCV.

The difference in total dues (6.5496 vs 6.4430) between the two is almost entirely due to the Capital Reserves assessment. Apparently, the BWV needs to fund its Capital Reserves at a higher rate in 2018 than does the BCV - 1.0596 for BWV vs 0.9617

Taxes makes up the rest of the difference, but it's only a little over a penny per point - 1.4977 for the BWV and 1.4841. It was interesting to me to see that the taxes make up about 23% of the total annual dues for both resorts.

 

[Pluto777]

The REAL question - and one which concerns me, is will the maintenance fees (on ALL resorts) ever eclipse the benefit of being a DVC owner. BWV was pretty good, but some of the other resorts seem to have taken a much bigger hit. What if you are renting out excess points? you need to be concerned that the increase in what you will receive to outpace the rising MF's. Obviously this is also tied into the cost of 'regular' WDW guests paying cash as well. I'm afraid there is eventually a cieling which WDW can actually charge for a night at a WDW resort - but isn't there ALSO a ceiling to the MF's? Think we will EVER see a '0%' increase in MF's?

 

[Maverick]

The REAL question - and one which concerns me, is will the maintenance fees (on ALL resorts) ever eclipse the benefit of being a DVC owner. BWV was pretty good, but some of the other resorts seem to have taken a much bigger hit. What if you are renting out excess points? you need to be concerned that the increase in what you will receive to outpace the rising MF's. Obviously this is also tied into the cost of 'regular' WDW guests paying cash as well. I'm afraid there is eventually a cieling which WDW can actually charge for a night at a WDW resort - but isn't there ALSO a ceiling to the MF's? Think we will EVER see a '0%' increase in MF's?

Well... History says the price of cash rooms will continue to increase and the MF's will continue to increase. Inflation... The good news is that MF's can only increase by the actual increased cost to run the resort and real estate taxes. The cash rooms can increase by any amount Disney would like to charge assuming they continue to get the occupancy levels they want. Since 1997, the average annual MF increase at BWV has been 2.65 per year compounded%. Obviously some years more and some years less. Fairly certain the cash room prices have far exceeded that.

To answer your specific question: 'Will the maintenance fees (on ALL resorts) ever eclipse the benefit of being a DVC owner?" Each owner will have to answer that for themselves as people are different and their perceived benefits are different.

 

[zavandor]

What if you are renting out excess points? you need to be concerned that the increase in what you will receive to outpace the rising MF's. Obviously this is also tied into the cost of 'regular' WDW guests paying cash as well.

When I bought DVC, SSR MF were $4.73 and points were rented at $10pp.
Now MF are $5.60 and I can rent points at $14. Not too bad.

The ceiling price for rental will be the cost of a vacation at WDW with cash. Members pay MF splitting the costs to run the resorts, Disney (I can imagine) sets the cash price so they get an hefty profit after paying expenses, so there will always be some margin between MFs and cash stays.

 

[Pluto777]

When I bought DVC, SSR MF were $4.73 and points were rented at $10pp.
Now MF are $5.60 and I can rent points at $14. Not too bad.

The ceiling price for rental will be the cost of a vacation at WDW with cash. Members pay MF splitting the costs to run the resorts, Disney (I can imagine) sets the cash price so they get an hefty profit after paying expenses, so there will always be some margin between MFs and cash stays.

I agree that there is a ceiling and it will ALWAYS be less then the cash price, what worries me as a DVC owner is if the cash price will outpace the MF's. There may not be a technical limit to how much Disney can charge for a room, but there will always be a market limit. A seller of anything can only charge what the market will bear. YES, right now I am okay, but as an owner I am concerned about constant MF increases vs the limits of what the cash market will bear.

 

[DebbieB]

When I bought in 1999, there was OKW and BWV at WDW. I was concerned about how much more BWV's dues were but still went with it because of the location and figuring it would be harder to get rooms. I think for the first time, OKW is now more.

 

[Cyberc1978]

If you take a 4 day rental at BWV in October in a standard view studio with 2 week days and Friday plus Saturday it’s a total of 48 points.

Disney rents those for $2304 including tax

Even If you rent those at $20 pp it would be a saving of almost 60%
If you only rent at $16 pp it’s a saving of almost 67%

You might be lucky to get a free quick serve dining plan if you go with Disney but you will still have a decent saving of 40% or 48% using the numbers above.

If you ask me the rental prices of $16 pp is simply too low. I would rent closer to or above $20pp

I understand that you get daily mousekeeping and can cancel close to checkin if you go with Disney.

The max price you can rent is somewhere close to the direct prices even if the mf is higher or lower than the direct prices.

 

[drusba]

Think we will EVER see a '0%' increase in MF's?

Maybe not again in the future but long term owners will remember that for BWV dues actually decreased two years in a row in 2,000 and 2,001, and OKW's dues decreased in 2001 to a total that was a penny less than they were in 1997.

 

[suebeelin]

If you take a 4 day rental at BWV in October in a standard view studio with 2 week days and Friday plus Saturday it’s a total of 48 points.

Disney rents those for $2304 including tax

Even If you rent those at $20 pp it would be a saving of almost 60%
If you only rent at $16 pp it’s a saving of almost 67%

You might be lucky to get a free quick serve dining plan if you go with Disney but you will still have a decent saving of 40% or 48% using the numbers above.

If you ask me the rental prices of $16 pp is simply too low. I would rent closer to or above $20pp

I understand that you get daily mousekeeping and can cancel close to checkin if you go with Disney.

The max price you can rent is somewhere close to the direct prices even if the mf is higher or lower than the direct prices.

Even though rental prices might be low relative to the actual room rates, it’s nice to have that option when you are unlikely to use all your points one year.

We usually have 30-150 extra points a year (banked and need to be used). Renting it just helps cover the maintenance fees if you’re not going to use the points.

Otherwise, the points might just go to waste....

 

[Ben E N]

If you take a 4 day rental at BWV in October in a standard view studio with 2 week days and Friday plus Saturday it’s a total of 48 points.

Disney rents those for $2304 including tax

Even If you rent those at $20 pp it would be a saving of almost 60%
If you only rent at $16 pp it’s a saving of almost 67%

You might be lucky to get a free quick serve dining plan if you go with Disney but you will still have a decent saving of 40% or 48% using the numbers above.

If you ask me the rental prices of $16 pp is simply too low. I would rent closer to or above $20pp

I understand that you get daily mousekeeping and can cancel close to checkin if you go with Disney.

The max price you can rent is somewhere close to the direct prices even if the mf is higher or lower than the direct prices.

This comparison makes sense only if you are looking for people who are interested in deluxe accommodations. The reason that the rental market is so robust is because it includes people who would typically only look at value or moderate resorts, but are willing to upgrade for a bit more money. If less people are interested in renting their points out, I am sure there would be enough people only interested in staying at deluxe resorts, and you would see prices rise accordingly. However, as it is with so many people renting their points out, they need to appeal to more value-centered buyers.

 

[Cyberc1978]

This comparison makes sense only if you are looking for people who are interested in deluxe accommodations. The reason that the rental market is so robust is because it includes people who would typically only look at value or moderate resorts, but are willing to upgrade for a bit more money. If less people are interested in renting their points out, I am sure there would be enough people only interested in staying at deluxe resorts, and you would see prices rise accordingly. However, as it is with so many people renting their points out, they need to appeal to more value-centered buyers.

You might be correct is some circumstances but if a lot of owners wish to rent and fewer takers then that should drive the prices down should they not?

Also even with many owners wanting to rent if they can’t secure the reservations that renters want because of no avail then the renters has to go to someone who already have the reservations, that could lead to higher prices.

 

[Ben E N]

You might be correct is some circumstances but if a lot of owners wish to rent and fewer takers then that should drive the prices down should they not?

Also even with many owners wanting to rent if they can’t secure the reservations that renters want because of no avail then the renters has to go to someone who already have the reservations, that could lead to higher prices.

As a former renter and current owner I can only hope that prices rise dramatically. However, I foresee the rental market stagnating a bit because people can afford to hang on to their contracts in this economy, even if they do not want to use them, and that leads to more rentals and tips the supply-demand scale to the supply side.

 

[Wakey]

It was the case this year that demand for rental far outweighed supply so I read. There’s big growth yet in rental. 90% of WDW travellers probably don’t know what DVC is, 98% don’t realise you can rent points (figures made up by me but you get the point). I was talking to a work colleague who has been to Disney maybe half dozen times and had two weeks at the Grand Floridian last year. I told her about my DVC and she had heard of it but didn’t realise what it really was. I told her about renting points and she had no idea this was possible. Same for a guy in our IT department who told me he was taking the kids but it was expensive and I suggested renting points.
I think as word of mouth spreads about renting, there’s a very large untapped market.

 

[Pluto777]

Just curious, does anyone here think the SIZE of the resort (number of units) has something to do with the cost of MF's? I'd be interested to know anyone's opinions on the law of large numbers effect on MF's breakdown by resort...