$200 Billion - Open Your Wallet Alert

[Qwackertoo]

This is really going to cost us big time~!

http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2005/09/what-to-do-about-new-orleans

 

[Charade]

I heard that on the radio today. This should make for great debate foder.

 

[Puffy2]

And our republican senator from Georgia, Johnny Isakson, says that:

even in the wake of Katrina, "it would be a mistake to turn our backs on the extraordinary economic growth of the past two years by abandoning all tax cuts. I feel very strongly that we should continue our nation's unprecedented economic prosperity by making the tax cuts permanent." Atlanta Journal and Consititution.


Just where does this senator think the 200 Billion is going to come from?

I guess there will be "economic prosperity" for some... ie., Haliburton and other major contributors to the Bush Administration who has already won no -bid contracts to "clean up New Orleans"...all while congress has removed the wage requirments for the workers that these companies will use to do the job.

Something still smells in New Orleans and it's not coming from the tainted water or bodies.

 

[DawnCt1]

You do realize that when taxes are cut, economic growth is generated and more tax revenues flow into the US coffers, don't you? No, I guess you don't.

 

[Charade]

You do realize that when taxes are cut, economic growth is generated and more tax revenues flow into the US coffers, don't you? No, I guess you don't.

Some people don't realize that our ecomony is mostly based on consumer spending. When cosumers have less to spend, tax revenues drop unless you increase taxes which in turn gives them less to spend unless they get a pay raise. That only happens when the company they work for increases their profits from selling more products/services. That can't happen if they don't sell more products or services. It's a vicious cycle and requires a balance to work well for everyone.

 

[BuckNaked]

I guess there will be "economic prosperity" for some... ie., Haliburton and other major contributors to the Bush Administration who has already won no -bid contracts to "clean up New Orleans"...

I guess there are no companies controlled by Democrats that got multi-million dollar no-bid contracts...oh wait, what was that one? Shaw something or other?

 

[DawnCt1]

Just where does this senator think the 200 Billion is going to come from?

I guess there will be "economic prosperity" for some... ie., Haliburton and other major contributors to the Bush Administration who has already won no -bid contracts to "clean up New Orleans"...all while congress has removed the wage requirments for the workers that these companies will use to do the job.

Something still smells in New Orleans and it's not coming from the tainted water or bodies.

Lets see. It sounds like you have some concern about the "price tag", and yet when an attempt is made to make the process more affordable for the companies and ultimately the tax payer, you are complaining.

 

[Planogirl]

Some people don't realize that our ecomony is mostly based on consumer spending. When cosumers have less to spend, tax revenues drop unless you increase taxes which in turn gives them less to spend unless they get a pay raise. That only happens when the company they work for increases their profits from selling more products/services. That can't happen if they don't sell more products or services. It's a vicious cycle and requires a balance to work well for everyone.

With an expensive war and storm to deal with, this is not a balanced situation.

 

[Puffy2]

Again - how do you think we as a nation will pay for it all? where is the money going to come from?

 

[Puffy2]

This is an interesting opinion piece on the issue of reconstruction:

"Disaster Capitalism
In New Orleans
By Xymphora
9-13-5

"The implications of FEMA's 'incompetence' and Bush's inexplicable failure to do anything about the plight of New Orleans until it was too late become rather obvious. Competence just leads to fewer chances to make money. ... At the same time, 'undesirable' populations ... can be cleaned up."


The cost (or here) of cleaning up the results of Bush's negligence in failing to deal with global warming and spending money needed for New Orleans levees on his war in Iraq may be as much as the $300 billion spent in four years to fight the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Of course, what most people would regard as a cost, the entrepreneurial politicians in the Bush White House see as yet another opportunity to transfer money from taxpayers to their personal friends. The scheme is blatantly obvious:

Bush has started to issue Iraq-style no-bid contracts, with cost-plus provisions that guarantee contractors a certain profit regardless of how much they spend.

Old buddies like Halliburton, Bechtel, and Fluor are first in line. Joe Allbaugh, the former director of FEMA, is lobbying for Halliburton, and another winner of the Katrina windfall, Shaw Group Inc.

In order to increase profitability at the expense of the working people most affected by the hurricane and thus most in need of money, Bush has removed (or here) federal minimum-wage provisions from the reconstruction contracts.

The concept of 'disaster capitalism', a term coined by Naomi Klein, is now being applied to the United States itself.

Klein wrote:

"Last summer, in the lull of the August media doze, the Bush Administration's doctrine of preventive war took a major leap forward. On August 5, 2004, the White House created the Office of the Coordinator for Reconstruction and Stabilization, headed by former US Ambassador to Ukraine Carlos Pascual. Its mandate is to draw up elaborate 'post-conflict' plans for up to twenty-five countries that are not, as of yet, in conflict. According to Pascual, it will also be able to coordinate three full-scale reconstruction operations in different countries 'at the same time,' each lasting 'five to seven years.'

and (note that Halliburton had a 'pre-completed' contract for New Orleans):

"Gone are the days of waiting for wars to break out and then drawing up ad hoc plans to pick up the pieces. In close cooperation with the National Intelligence Council, Pascual's office keeps 'high risk' countries on a 'watch list' and assembles rapid-response teams ready to engage in prewar planning and to 'mobilize and deploy quickly' after a conflict has gone down. The teams are made up of private companies, nongovernmental organizations and members of think tanks - some, Pascual told an audience at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in October, will have 'pre-completed' contracts to rebuild countries that are not yet broken. Doing this paperwork in advance could 'cut off three to six months in your response time.'"

and:

"But if the reconstruction industry is stunningly inept at rebuilding, that may be because rebuilding is not its primary purpose. According to Guttal, 'It's not reconstruction at all - it's about reshaping everything.' If anything, the stories of corruption and incompetence serve to mask this deeper scandal: the rise of a predatory form of disaster capitalism that uses the desperation and fear created by catastrophe to engage in radical social and economic engineering. And on this front, the reconstruction industry works so quickly and efficiently that the privatizations and land grabs are usually locked in before the local population knows what hit them. Kumara, in another e-mail, warns that Sri Lanka is now facing 'a second tsunami of corporate globalization and militarization,' potentially even more devastating than the first. 'We see this as a plan of action amidst the tsunami crisis to hand over the sea and the coast to foreign corporations and tourism, with military assistance from the US Marines.'"

and:

"A group calling itself Thailand Tsunami Survivors and Supporters says that for 'businessmen-politicians, the tsunami was the answer to their prayers, since it literally wiped these coastal areas clean of the communities which had previously stood in the way of their plans for resorts, hotels, casinos and shrimp farms. To them, all these coastal areas are now open land!'"

Just like New Orleans! If the Bush Administration has elaborate pre-made plans to make money off conflicts which have yet to occur in other countries, why would they not also have elaborate pre-made plans to make money off natural disasters that occur within the United States? A book of plans for New Orleans, a book of plans for Florida, a book of plans for San Francisco . . the money to be made is enormous! The implications of FEMA's 'incompetence' and Bush's inexplicable failure to do anything about the plight of New Orleans until it was too late become rather obvious. Competence just leads to fewer chances to make money. All of the reconstruction contracts can be directed to friends of the Bush Administration, and no one will complain about the extremely generous payments. At the same time, 'undesirable' populations - blacks in New Orleans, gays in San Francisco - can be cleaned up, thus ensuring that the area will vote Republican in the future.

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/ "

 

[snappy]

I guess there are no companies controlled by Democrats that got multi-million dollar no-bid contracts...oh wait, what was that one? Shaw something or other?

Shaw is advertising here on the radio trying to fill a number of new job positions already. I just heard that they are hosting a career fair this Saturday for engineering, project control and accounting jobs at their corporate office here. Lots of new opportunities from the sounds of it.

 

[Puffy2]

And here is more info from news source CNN:


"Firms with White House ties get Katrina contracts
FEMA taps Halliburton subsidiary, Shaw Group, Bechtel for cleanup

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Companies with ties to the Bush White House and the former head of FEMA are clinching some of the administration's first disaster relief and reconstruction contracts in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

At least two major corporate clients of lobbyist Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's former campaign manager and a former head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, have already been tapped to start recovery work along the battered Gulf Coast.

One is Shaw Group Inc. and the other is Halliburton Co. subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root. Vice President Dick Cheney is a former head of Halliburton.

Bechtel National Inc., a unit of San Francisco-based Bechtel Corp., has also been selected by FEMA to provide short-term housing for people displaced by the hurricane. Bush named Bechtel's CEO to his Export Council and put the former CEO of Bechtel Energy in charge of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation.

Experts say it has been common practice in both Republican and Democratic administrations for policy makers to take lobbying jobs once they leave office, and many of the same companies seeking contracts in the wake of Hurricane Katrina have already received billions of dollars for work in Iraq.

Halliburton alone has earned more than $9 billion. Pentagon audits released by Democrats in June showed $1.03 billion in "questioned" costs and $422 million in "unsupported" costs for Halliburton's work in Iraq.

Watchdog groups take notice
But the web of Bush administration connections is attracting renewed attention from watchdog groups in the post-Katrina reconstruction rush. Congress has already appropriated more than $60 billion in emergency funding as a down payment on recovery efforts projected to cost well over $100 billion.

"The government has got to stop stacking senior positions with people who are repeatedly cashing in on the public trust in order to further private commercial interests," said Danielle Brian, executive director of the Project on Government Oversight.

Bush appointees at Halliburton
Allbaugh formally registered as a lobbyist for Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root in February.

In lobbying disclosure forms filed with the Senate, Allbaugh said his goal was to "educate the congressional and executive branch on defense, disaster relief and homeland security issues affecting Kellogg Brown and Root."

Melissa Norcross, a Halliburton spokeswoman, said Allbaugh has not, since he was hired, "consulted on any specific contracts that the company is considering pursuing, nor has he been tasked by the company with any lobbying responsibilities."

Allbaugh is also a friend of Michael Brown, director of FEMA who was removed as head of Katrina disaster relief and sent back to Washington amid allegations he had padded his resume -- which he denies.

A few months after Allbaugh was hired by Halliburton, the company retained another high-level Bush appointee, Kirk Van Tine.

Van Tine registered as a lobbyist for Halliburton six months after resigning as deputy transportation secretary, a position he held from December 2003 to December 2004.

On Friday, Kellogg Brown & Root received $29.8 million in Pentagon contracts to begin rebuilding Navy bases in Louisiana and Mississippi. Norcross said the work was covered under a contract that the company negotiated before Allbaugh was hired.

Cheney's relationship with Halliburton
Halliburton continues to be a source of income for Cheney, who served as its chief executive officer from 1995 until 2000 when he joined the Republican ticket for the White House. According to tax filings released in April, Cheney's income included $194,852 in deferred pay from the company, which has also won billion-dollar government contracts in Iraq.

Cheney's office said the amount of deferred compensation is fixed and is not affected by Halliburton's current economic performance or earnings.

Allbaugh's other major client, Baton Rouge-based Shaw Group, has updated its Web site to say: "Hurricane Recovery Projects -- Apply Here!"

Shaw said on Thursday it has received a $100 million emergency FEMA contract for housing management and construction. Shaw also clinched a $100 million order on Friday from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

Shaw Group spokesman Chris Sammons said Allbaugh was providing the company with "general consulting on business matters," and would not say whether he played a direct role in any of the Katrina deals. "We don't comment on specific consulting activities," he said. "


http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/10/katrina.contracts.reut

 

[DawnCt1]

This is an interesting opinion piece on the issue of reconstruction:

If the Bush Administration has elaborate pre-made plans to make money off conflicts which have yet to occur in other countries, why would they not also have elaborate pre-made plans to make money off natural disasters that occur within the United States? A book of plans for New Orleans, a book of plans for Florida, a book of plans for San Francisco . . the money to be made is enormous! The implications of FEMA's 'incompetence' and Bush's inexplicable failure to do anything about the plight of New Orleans until it was too late become rather obvious. Competence just leads to fewer chances to make money. All of the reconstruction contracts can be directed to friends of the Bush Administration, and no one will complain about the extremely generous payments. At the same time, 'undesirable' populations - blacks in New Orleans, gays in San Francisco - can be cleaned up, thus ensuring that the area will vote Republican in the future.

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/ "

So maybe you think that Louis Farrakan is right. He "heard from a reliable source" that a 25 ft. hole was blown in the levee and that it was intentional to spare the white neighborhoods and destroy the black neighborhoods". My big question is, how did President Bush create that hurricane and direct it towards that area? I will bet its those top secret projects coming out of Area 57!

 

[wvrevy]

So maybe you think that Louis Farrakan is right. He "heard from a reliable source" that a 25 ft. hole was blown in the levee and that it was intentional to spare the white neighborhoods and destroy the black neighborhoods". My big question is, how did President Bush create that hurricane and direct it towards that area? I will bet its those top secret projects coming out of Area 57!

Basic republican tactic #137: When unable to refute an argument, try to compare it to something ludicrous. It's possible the audience will equate the two, without you having to do any actual work.

 

[yeartolate]

You do realize that when taxes are cut, economic growth is generated and more tax revenues flow into the US coffers, don't you? No, I guess you don't.

I think there is a bigger picture. We have spent billions in Iraq over WMD that did not exist.Our subsequent efforts to liberate the Iraqi people will further suck our economy dry because we cannot drop them in the middle of what may be tantamount to a civil war. Iraq in the future will probably further suck our economy dry becasue it is proving to be an excellent breeding ground for terrorists.

What I think we should have paid for was the war. Folks would have insisted on better (non massaged?) intelligence before commiting American lives and hundreds of billions of dollars on a war if they knew the money was coming directly out of their pockets.

I have no problem committing our dollars (as long as the oversight to the spending is better than it has been in Iraq) to rebuild the hurricane ravaged areas. I see how this could eventually generate substantial economic growth.

 

[Free4Life11]

Good for them. I say we pour as much money into this area as needed. This time of growth may strain the feds, but maybe it will be the shock our economy needs to get jump-started.

If we can give the old folks $500 billion a year, if we can spend hundreds of billions in Iraq, if we can have the largest defence budget in the world (far greater than any other country), then we can damn well spend some money rebuilding the south.

Where will the money come from? No where. The government doesn't care how much they bring in -- they ran a deficit all through the 90's, finally started running a surplus in 1999 & 2000, and now we've been running deficits ever since.

As far as tax cuts....didn't we already have a round of tax cuts during Bush's tenure? Yet from 2000-20003, government revenues have declined. In 2004 they increased, but who knows if that will stay that way if they cut taxes again.

Who's taxes are they thinking about cutting? Are they considering the change to make the charitable deduction available to everyone even if they don't itemize? That's the only tax cut I'd like at this point. I don't know why they never passed it in the first place as it was part of the original plan.

Honestly the tax cuts are so confusing. I know some of the tax changes that were made in Bush's first term, but I don't know how long they will last, etc. It's so difficult to find a nice simple chart that lists the type of cut, how long it will last, and how much it will cost.

 

[sodaseller]

You do realize that when taxes are cut, economic growth is generated and more tax revenues flow into the US coffers, don't you? No, I guess you don't.

Categorically False - a complete and utter lie

 

[sodaseller]

I cringe at the fiscal impact, but I see no alternative. We must rebuild the Gulf Coast, and the region wil never be able to finance it itself

 

[DisDuck]

Dawn.. A little economic lesson. As a Libertarian I am essentially against income taxation of any kind. I think that the Supreme Court in 1898 was correct in ruling that the income tax was unconstitional and that the amendment making it legal should have never been passed. That said, a tax cut only helps if it increases the disposable income of those who has the least disposable income and that that spent money stays here in the US to generate jobs thereby generating more disposable income, etc. etc.

However, the largest by percent of population received the minimalist of tax cuts. That is the Middle Class. The greater percent of income tax cut went to those whose disposable income was already significant. What kind of increase in spending did this group do? Did they buy more yachts, million$ homes, etc. The Middle Class took their new found and minimal increase in disposable income to Wal-Mart or Target. The goods bought there were made overseas. No new US jobs were created because of this increase in spending. Just look at the trade-deficit.. We import more than export which means that few new jobs created here by these tax cuts.

My business was shut-down for 14 months and may be shut-down again next month. My industry lost 100's of thousands of jobs due to off-shore outsourcing. So how did these tax cuts help me or those other's in my industry.

In an analysis of FDR's WPA it was mentioned that an independent oversight committee was set up to ensure that money was spent wisely. This committee did its job so well that little, if any, corruption/mismanagement/misappropriation occurred. With favored-contracts already being awarded. With wage rules relaxed. I cannot trust that this administration will do an honest job on the reconstruction.

Further to answer the question of where this money will come from.. The Government Printing Press. Which brings us to Too Much Money Chasing Too Few Goods, ie. INFLATION.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Im not sure if this question has arose in anyother threads, but here is my question...

Why would the American Government and Taxpayers pour hundreds of billions of dollars into a town (n.o) that can easily be devistated again? Im trying to do some logical thinking on this topic, but Im getting dumber every second...