1/3 of older millenials share their salary info with their co-workers

[punkin]

When did fairness become a dirty word? Why should a woman or a minority have to "up his/her game" to earn the same wage as a white male counterpart?

We'd never accept that in the educational arena. Imagine a grading system that tried to assign women only 79% of the points men earn for the same answers. If the cut-off for a man to get an A was 90%, a woman would need 113% to achieve the same grade. The outcry would be immediate and virtually unanimous. But put them in the workforce, and anyone who objects to the tilted playing field is ridiculed for wanting fairness.

I agree with you 100%, but I want to emphasize the difference between a level playing field, which gives everyone the same chance and equal outcomes, which look fair, but really aren't . I am all for transparency in salary because it fosters both, rewarding work/talent and leveling the playing field.

 

[dosekies]

I am a millennial and it doesn't bother me to tell people my salary. I will not bring it up first, but if someone asks or it happens to come up in conversation somehow it does not bother me to say what I make. I will say though, this conversation has only ever come up with people close in age that I hang out with all the time at work, so I'm not sure how I would feel if someone older or that I don't usually talk to at work were to ask. That may be a different story there. One of my good friends got a job in my department based on my referral, so I told her what I make when we were talking about her applying for the job as she was moving from another state and needed a good idea of what to expect. What I do tell them, however, does not include my overtime. I am the only person in my department who reports directly to the boss, so I am lucky to get a LOT of overtime that others do not get, so I keep that to myself.

 

[Skywalker]

For many years, I worked places with a chart on the wall. If you've been here X years, and worked Y job, your pay was $Z. Period. Now, it's all over the map. No way I'd share that info, and I've instructed my subordinates not to discuss such things either.

Be careful what you "instruct your subordinates" to do. It is illegal in lots of jurisdictions to try and prevent workers from discussing wages and/or working conditions.

 

[Squirlz]

I think it has less to do about being a Millennial and more to do about being young and starting a career. 25-30 years ago all of us young designers talked about salaries, who would be the first to make $40K etc. Once you're established you feel less compelled to discuss it.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I'm an older millennial and I don't talk about my salary. I do wish that companies published more detail salary info.

I am so sick to death of all the Millenial bashing. About how "we all want to make what senior execs make just coming in the door." I'm pretty sure most millennials just want the same QoL that the older generations who are *****ing about us had when they graduated.

Yes, anecdotally you all know somebody who graduated last year with no debt and had bought at house at 21. Generally, though, millennials have more debt and lower salaries with les job security than any generation before us. It's super easy to say "oh boo boo whiny entitled millennial living in mom's basement" when you were paid a living wage out of college. Millennials aren't getting married, having kids, buying cars, buying houses later because we're all lazy and entitled.

 

[ronandannette]

Are you implying that white males inherently put in a better effort? You don't think bias and prejudice might play into the wage gap even a little bit?

As to the second paragraph, there are many reasons a person might accept a low ball offer even if they are worth more. Maybe they really need this job, so they don't want to rock the boat. Maybe they don't know their own value. Maybe they are defeated by the reality that no matter what, they will always earn a fraction of what white males earn.

A company that truely values their employees will pay them and treat them fairly, which is a much smarter strategy in the long run. It costs 6 to 9 months' salary to replace an employee. It would be much smarter to just give a $10k raise (or whatever amount to be at fair markrt value) than train a new employee every 1 or 2 years.

Good examples of this include Costco and Aldi. They pay fair wages, have a good reputation amongst workers, and are thriving.

No, actually - I'm not. Are you implying all white men make more than all women or men of other racial backgrounds??

My workplace employs both men and women of various ethnicities in many of what might be considered "non-traditional" gender roles. The only thing that determines their salaries is market trend and their individual relative worth to the company (and to a point, what they are willing to work for - it's a non-union, private sector company). You asserting racism and/or sexism doesn't make it so. I'm the female manager of a team of 7; 4 men and 3 women. One of my long-time, stellar staff members actually makes more than I do and he happens to be a person of colour. Being on the inside of the decision-making process, I can assure you gender-bias has nothing to do with it.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

No, actually - I'm not. Are you implying all white men make more than all women or men of other racial backgrounds??

My workplace employs both men and women of various ethnicities in many of what might be considered "non-traditional" gender roles. The only thing that determines their salaries is market trend and their individual relative worth to the company (and to a point, what they are willing to work for - it's a non-union, private sector company). You asserting racism and/or sexism doesn't make it so. I'm the female manager of a team of 7; 4 men and 3 women. One of my long-time, stellar staff members actually makes more than I do and he happens to be a person of colour. Being on the inside of the decision-making process, I can assure you gender-bias has nothing to do with it.

I'm not implying anything. My claims are verifiable. There have been numerous studies to show that, on average, caucasian men earn more than women and minorities.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ge-gaps-persist-in-u-s-despite-some-progress/

 

[Colleen27]

No, actually - I'm not. Are you implying all white men make more than all women or men of other racial backgrounds??

My workplace employs both men and women of various ethnicities in many of what might be considered "non-traditional" gender roles. The only thing that determines their salaries is market trend and their individual relative worth to the company (and to a point, what they are willing to work for - it's a non-union, private sector company). You asserting racism and/or sexism doesn't make it so. I'm the female manager of a team of 7; 4 men and 3 women. One of my long-time, stellar staff members actually makes more than I do and he happens to be a person of colour. Being on the inside of the decision-making process, I can assure you gender-bias has nothing to do with it.

So because that's your experience with your team, it doesn't happen anywhere? The entire wage gap, even at day one out of school, is attributable to the fact that men are just, on average, better employees and/or better negotiators than women? As I said before, I was hired straight out of school along with two of my male classmates. We all had the same classification, the same education, and the same (lack of) experience. They both made more than I did (and I only knew this because the school did a survey about just-out-of-school employment). And a pay gap when starting out can end up magnified over time. My husband is replacing one of his team this week; the woman who is coming in will make 20% less than the man she's replacing, a man who is getting terminated for not doing his job well, because the employer asks about salary history and realized they could pay the woman less. Same skills, same job, but because she made less before she'll continue making less now.

I'm not saying it happens everywhere. Obviously it doesn't - public and union wage structures generally don't allow for it, and some employers are more committed than others to true performance-based pay. But it happens in enough places to make for pretty significant discrepancies on average, and the taboo about discussing wages is one of the reasons it can continue. It is hard to talk about discrimination if you never know that the guy in the next cubicle over hired in the same day you did at a significantly higher rate of pay.

 

[Skippy918]

One of my former employers used to publish the salary charts on the intranet site, but one day they up and disappeared. Of course when they did that rumors started flying as to why they took away that info.

California recently banned the use of salary history in job applications which I think will help alleviate the gender pay gap. Job openings should list a salary range and not what the job seeker made previously.

 

[Disney Doll]

Oh my, what a rude and disrespectful over-generalization.

This is a generation of equal pay for equal work. A generation where women still earn 79 cents for every dollar a man earns. Where women with children earn 3 percent less than women without children, while men with children tend to earn 15 percent more than men without children. A generation that is disgusted to know that african american doctors earn 15 percent less than caucasian doctors.

So yeah, let's talk about pay. Let's let women and minorities know if their employer is penalizing them based on gender or race. Let's let them know we don't have to tolerate inequality.

This isn't about "give me more for less effort", it is about "give me equal for equal effort".


I don't understand why people are so sensitive about their salaries? It's just money. Having a high salary doesn't make you a good person , or a healthy person, or a happy person, Just like having a low salary doesn't mean you are less worthy, less honorable, or less generous.

It’s neither rude nor disrespectful. It’s my experience with the millennial generation. You’re free to like or not like it as you so desire.

 

[Southernmiss]

I am hopeful these discussions help ease the gender pay discrimination that has happened for ages. Much like other discussions have brought to light racial and sexual preference inequalities.

There are still prejudices in the workplace toward women.

That is very sad.

And I'm not a millennial.

 

[dosekies]

It’s neither rude nor disrespectful. It’s my experience with the millennial generation. You’re free to like or not like it as you so desire.

I really hate that people have this idea of my generation, especially since myself and really everyone else I know my age work our butts off to get what we have. I honestly have yet to come across anyone who had this work ethic unless their parents raised them that way. However I also find it VERY hard to believe that previous generations were never portrayed this way either.

 

[Shanti]

But with the current generation, upping their game doesn’t play into th equation. Remember, we’re talking about the generation who was never disappointed as children, everyone made the team, everyone got an award.

My experience with the age group in question is that “it’s not fair. Everything should be fair. I shouldn’t have to up my game. It should just be fair”

This isn't a generational thing. I am not a milennial, and I certainly believe in fair pay. Women have been pushing for greater pay equality and transparency for generations. The situation is finally improving a bit, and that's a very good thing.

 

[rigs32]

I work for the government. Your salary is determined based on your classification and your years in that classification. There is no negotiating. You know that going in. It’s lower than the private sector, but the benefits make up for that.

One mid 20s applicant was made an offer and his sloppy attempts to negotiate salary anyway led to the offer being withdrawn.

 

[ols386]

Before I retired, I worked for a large corporation, and discussing your salary with other employes was a HUGE no-no.

 

[Hikergirl]

If someone got 5% and someone else got 10%. I think the 5% needs to work on their brown nosing skills.

This is the kind of attitude that explains why people shouldn't talk about their salaries. There will always be the employees that aren't as good as other employees, and they will always feel that the ones who got a higher raise was because they brown nosed, not that they actually did more/better work than them.
You want 10% raise, then don't do 5% worth of work.

 

[mnrose]

I'll give you my example of sexism in the workplace. I worked for a large corporation. Joined and took a pay cut (from a major law firm to in house corporate counsel). I was told it was "impossible" on the company's pay scale to pay me what I had made in private practice. Took the job because the hours were better and it had a better retirement plan. Worked my tail off for on year. Got a decent increase, and began to make a bit more than I *had* been making. All was good. Shortly thereafter, they hired attorney (male). Graduated one year after me from law school. Worked for a law firm that would be considered, by any measure, a lesser law firm than I had worked at. So, junior to me in EVERY respect. Less experience, etc. Yet they paid him MORE than they paid me, even though I had one year of experience with the company and amazing reviews for my work there. Explain that as anything other than sexism. BTW, I went on to a achieve a rank that the male employee never came close to touching. E.g., I was a more valuable employee. Yet, for some magical reason, they paid him about 20% more than me when then hired him. Hmmmmm.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'll give you my example of sexism in the workplace. I worked for a large corporation. Joined and took a pay cut (from a major law firm to in house corporate counsel). I was told it was "impossible" on the company's pay scale to pay me what I had made in private practice. Took the job because the hours were better and it had a better retirement plan. Worked my tail off for on year. Got a decent increase, and began to make a bit more than I *had* been making. All was good. Shortly thereafter, they hired attorney (male). Graduated one year after me from law school. Worked for a law firm that would be considered, by any measure, a lesser law firm than I had worked at. So, junior to me in EVERY respect. Less experience, etc. Yet they paid him MORE than they paid me, even though I had one year of experience with the company and amazing reviews for my work there. Explain that as anything other than sexism. BTW, I went on to a achieve a rank that the male employee never came close to touching. E.g., I was a more valuable employee. Yet, for some magical reason, they paid him about 20% more than me when then hired him. Hmmmmm.

Do you make more than him now?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'll give you my example of sexism in the workplace. I worked for a large corporation. Joined and took a pay cut (from a major law firm to in house corporate counsel). I was told it was "impossible" on the company's pay scale to pay me what I had made in private practice. Took the job because the hours were better and it had a better retirement plan. Worked my tail off for on year. Got a decent increase, and began to make a bit more than I *had* been making. All was good. Shortly thereafter, they hired attorney (male). Graduated one year after me from law school. Worked for a law firm that would be considered, by any measure, a lesser law firm than I had worked at. So, junior to me in EVERY respect. Less experience, etc. Yet they paid him MORE than they paid me, even though I had one year of experience with the company and amazing reviews for my work there. Explain that as anything other than sexism. BTW, I went on to a achieve a rank that the male employee never came close to touching. E.g., I was a more valuable employee. Yet, for some magical reason, they paid him about 20% more than me when then hired him. Hmmmmm.

I guarantee they didn't offer him more than you just because he was a male. Companies don't just give money away. They got both of you just as cheaply as they could.

Trust me, I know it sucks when a new hire makes more than an experienced person, but it happens with female new hires too. I've seen it countless times.

When they said "no" to your salary demands, you caved. Maybe he didn't.

 

[ronandannette]

I guarantee they didn't offer him more than you just because he was a male. Companies don't just give money away. They got both of you just as cheaply as they could.

Trust me, I know it sucks when a new hire makes more than an experienced person, but it happens with female new hires too. I've seen it countless times.

When they said "no" to your salary demands, you caved. Maybe he didn't.

This. Exactly this.

Private for-profit enterprises, regardless of what their policy manuals might might say, are always bottom-line oriented. Employees are human "resources" to be acquired as economically as possible. Disliking it or resenting it doesn't change the fact.