Yes!!! GM Considering Bankruptcy!

[jodifla]

I don't recall anyone on this thread taking "joy" or hoping that GM "tanks". Bankruptcy is an opportunity to save it.

Too many economists disagree to be remotely happy about the Big 3 going into bankruptcy--- most of them feel it would be the end of the companies.

That's the problem here....it's like jumping off a cliff, hoping there's water below. But it's more likely there's just jagged rocks ready to smash us to a billion bits.

 

[Galahad]

Too many economists disagree to be remotely happy about the Big 3 going into bankruptcy--- most of them feel it would be the end of the companies.

Do you have a citation? I've read plenty of the opposite. Haven't read much of the above. Where have all of these economists published this?

 

[jodifla]

And this is admirable behavior?

I have far too many asinine UAW stories to put into one post but one of the worst - my brother-in-law was managing partner in a Harley-Davidson dealership in a factory town. There was a Chrysler Factory and a GM factory in this town. One of the dealership's trucks was a Ford. He was harassed, threatened, cajoled - wanting to force him to get rid of the Ford and by the "right" truck. They eventually set a fire under the front entry way of the dealership after spray painting threatening graffiti all over the wall. THIS, is the union mentality. The union mentality will do more to destroy the economy of the country than any bankruptcy, bail out, or corporate jet ever could.

My FIL did business with the Big 3. And he was darn sure to drive their brand of vehicle to meetings.

Many (white collar) who work for the Big 3 are required to get a new vehicle from the line every three years.

 

[jodifla]

Do you have a citation? I've read plenty of the opposite. Haven't read much of the above. Where have all of these economists published this?

I'm on my way out now...I'll have to dig around and find some of the stuff I've been reading on the wires.

One made this huge case against the company...then said we'd better bail them out anyway, because keeping them afloat is less expensive than any job works program we'd have to create after the bottom falls out.

 

[Galahad]

My FIL did business with the Big 3. And he was darn sure to drive their brand of vehicle to meetings.

Many (white collar) who work for the Big 3 are required to get a new vehicle from the line every three years.

Again, how is this defensible? I'll bet plenty of folks will read my little story and think my BIL was at fault. It's the most asinine thing I've every heard of. Infantile really.

 

[luvmy3]

My FIL did business with the Big 3. And he was darn sure to drive their brand of vehicle to meetings.

Many (white collar) who work for the Big 3 are required to get a new vehicle from the line every three years.

Does anyone else think this is insane? How can an employer have that much control over one's life and its accepted because of who the employer is, its ridiculous.

 

[Galahad]

Does anyone else think this is insane? How can an employer have that much control over one's life and its accepted because of who the employer is, its ridiculous.

And the unions - the poor working-stiffs - go along with it - to the point of violence. It really is a sick cycle - sort of a co-dependence disorder of some sort.

 

[CarlaKay]

Bankruptcy and talk of punishing the Big 3 is really just a subterfuge for the republican attempts to punish the unions. Many republicans blame the UAW for McCain losing and President Elect Obama being elected and want to punish the unions before the number of republican senators go down 41 or 42 in the next congress. Here is a memo that discusses the republican goalshttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/12/1713569.aspx

Republicans should stand firm and take their first shot against organized labor, instead of taking their first blow from it.

Countdown had a good piece on the republican attempts to punish the unions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYqEvMMNLg Many republican senators blame organized labor for their problems and want to use this opportunity to punish organized labor.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Bankruptcy and talk of punishing the Big 3 is really just a subterfuge for the republican attempts to punish the unions. Many republicans blame the UAW for McCain losing and President Elect Obama being elected and want to punish the unions before the number of republican senators go down 41 or 42 in the next congress. Here is a memo that discusses the republican goalshttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/12/1713569.aspxCountdown had a good piece on the republican attempts to punish the unions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYqEvMMNLg Many republican senators blame organized labor for their problems and want to use this opportunity to punish organized labor.

You think this is all about getting even? What did the Republicans have to do with the poor business decisions of the Big 3? Unions have, long ago, outlived their purpose. They are now a detriment to their members.

 

[CarlaKay]

The Detroit Paper has a great piece on the GOP's attempt to bust the unions. http://www.freep.com/article/20081213/COL32/812130322

I mean that a handful of senators from former Confederate states could so summarily sign a death warrant for the Michigan economy. A bunch of self-serving Republicans who will now go around blaming the United Auto Workers for killing the auto industry rescue plan.

Convenient excuse for something they never had any intention of passing. It's just a coincidence, of course, that they all come from states with non-union auto plants owned by the foreign competitors of GM, Ford and Chrysler.

A former colleague who grew up in the Deep South once told me, "Where I come from, there's not much difference between union and Union Army."

The blocking of the emergency loans to two of the big 3 is about busting the unions while the GOP still has a chance.

I saw that Corker (the racist senator from Tenn.) is upset with bush for even thinking about using the TARP money to make a loan to GM and Chrysler.

 

[ScottJ]

My FIL did business with the Big 3. And he was darn sure to drive their brand of vehicle to meetings.

Many (white collar) who work for the Big 3 are required to get a new vehicle from the line every three years.

Required, hmmm, from all of the people I know at the Tech Center in Warren or at the RenCen (both GM). All of the people I know in Auburn Hills (Chrysler). All of the people I know who work for Lear, TRW, Delphi, Visteon, and Behr. I don't know a single engineer, management, sales or line person who is required to buy a new vehicle. I've never met a person in autos that wasn't happy to take advantage of pep vehicles or employee purchase programs.

Beside Visteon, I really don't know any Ford employees. So maybe Ford require it and they weren't happy to take advantage of pep cars but I kinda doubt it.

 

[Disneyadore]

My FIL did business with the Big 3. And he was darn sure to drive their brand of vehicle to meetings.

Many (white collar) who work for the Big 3 are required to get a new vehicle from the line every three years.

Are you talking about Cuba? This sounds like Fidel.

You can't be serious. In the most powerful country of the world that writes FREEDOM in capital's people are forced to drive the cars there boss diced's the should drive?

I wonder how that would work out in court is some body gets fired for driving another car then his boss told him to.

 

[Carly_Roach]

IMO, if the Senate is going to push the big three into bankruptcy where they can cut the pensions and health care of the workers who worked for them for decades, then one of the first thing BO should do upon taking office is cut the pensions and health care of every senator and senator's family. Period.

Hey, it's just a waste of taxpayer's money, right? Our government has to get lean now, doesn't it? America is on the verge of bankruptcy and has to cut back.

 

[Bobbles]

IMO, if the Senate is going to push the big three into bankruptcy where they can cut the pensions and health care of the workers who worked for them for decades, then one of the first thing BO should do upon taking office is cut the pensions and health care of every senator and senator's family. Period.

Hey, it's just a waste of taxpayer's money, right? Our government has to get lean now, doesn't it? America is on the verge of bankruptcy and has to cut back.

Too funny!

Could you imagine getting any concessions from government employees for pay or benefits? They always say how the civilian sector is so well compensated. Maybe it was that way at one time but I don't think it applies any more.

 

[NikSmith]

I never saw a group of individuals so excited at the prospect of people losing their jobs, their wages, their benefits and their pensions. It borders on ecstatic.

Really, is a race to the bottom all the Republicans have to offer? The only way for America to solve it's economic problems is for workers to make less and less money and have less and less benefits? Really, is that all the Republicans offer?

Small wonder the Republicans are fast becoming a shrinking regional party. They're not offering anything except reduced wages, reduced benefits, and shrinking dreams of a better life.

 

[luvmy3]

I never saw a group of individuals so excited at the prospect of people losing their jobs, their wages, their benefits and their pensions. It borders on ecstatic.

Please show me who actually is excited or estatic about people losing their jobs. Just because people have different opinions as to how to help alot of people keep their job doesn't mean anyone is excited about other losing theirs, sheesh.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Too funny!

Could you imagine getting any concessions from government employees for pay or benefits?

Actually, I'm not advocating (yet) concessions from government employees. I'm talking about the people who have a direct impact on laws and how those laws affect American people's lives. Perhaps if our Senators and House Representatives lost what American workers are expected to lose (and get used to losing and stop whining about it you lousy crybaby taxpayers you), maybe they'd think differently when they voted.

I think we'd have a huge turnaround in the push to make medical care affordable for all Americans if every year 1/2 the Senators and Representatives were told they were no longer covered and the other 1/2 were forced to see 10-15% increases in premiums each year (with no raise in salary) on health insurance that turned out to be more of a coupon for coverage instead of actual coverage for everything.

Sorry to say this, but those Representative's days of "serving the public" ended decades ago. Most of the people who say they represent us, dont. They represent only that small majority that are either the most vocal, the most wealthy, or both.

The rest of us can just sit here and suck on it for all our representatives (as a body) care. They got theirs - the hell with everyone else.

 

[NikSmith]

Please show me who actually is excited or estatic about people losing their jobs. Just because people have different opinions as to how to help alot of people keep their job doesn't mean anyone is excited about other losing theirs, sheesh.

It starts with the title of this thread which is:

Yes!!! GM Considering Bankruptcy!

One can only come to the conclusion, given the title, that keeping one's job means a race to the bottom of wages, benefits, pensions, etc.

So the questions still stand:

Really, is a race to the bottom all the Republicans have to offer? The only way for America to solve it's economic problems is for workers to make less and less money and have less and less benefits? Really, is that all the Republicans offer?

Is something else being offered by the Republicans? Do tell, please.

 

[Planogirl]

I never saw a group of individuals so excited at the prospect of people losing their jobs, their wages, their benefits and their pensions. It borders on ecstatic.

Really, is a race to the bottom all the Republicans have to offer? The only way for America to solve it's economic problems is for workers to make less and less money and have less and less benefits? Really, is that all the Republicans offer?

Small wonder the Republicans are fast becoming a shrinking regional party. They're not offering anything except reduced wages, reduced benefits, and shrinking dreams of a better life.

Welcome.

I don't think that they're excited. Maybe indifferent could apply to a few but then others seem to buy into the trickle down theory. In other words, if business is happy then the little guy is happy and if GM fails and restructures it'll be better for the worker in the long run. I personally have never seen a sign that trickle down works all that well.

 

[luvmy3]

It starts with the title of this thread which is:

Yes!!! GM Considering Bankruptcy!

One can only come to the conclusion, given the title, that keeping one's job means a race to the bottom of wages, benefits, pensions, etc.

No actually one could come to the conclusion that the OP is of the opinion that Bankruptcy is a better solution in this case.
You are naive if you think a bailout will not cause many to lose their jobs. Its a band aid fix for a problem that will only come back. Then what another bailout? More people will to their jobs? Bankruptcy may give this company a chance to survive in the long run, a bailout may also do the same, honestly I don't what the right thing to do is, but I'm not stupid enough to think that either will not result in 1000's losing their jobs, pensions, benefits. etc.