Yes!!! GM Considering Bankruptcy!

[ScottJ]

Why is it that the automotive industry, and its employees are more important than other American's?

Where were you when all the other manufacturing jobs disappeared to overseas? Where were you all as the customer service representatives jobs disappeared overseas? Where were you as the computer jobs disappeared overseas? Do you really think there were less jobs hemorrhaged to India or fewer families hurt? Are all those people any less unemployed? They are just as important and I am irritated by the amount of special consideration that is being given to an extremely small percentage of our population. This isn't to say you don't matter, you absolutely do, but not any more than anyone else.

I would really like it if the government would start paying attention to the big elephant in the room, that being the rest of this country.

So, basically you're saying the Big 3 workers should be punished? I don't support the UAW but I'll concede to them, they are on the front lines of keeping jobs in the US. So, the group that has fought for American jobs, you want to punish?

For that matter, out of the 16 states I've visited I don't know of a state that believes in a strong American workforce more than Michigan. It's just how we're born, you buy Michigan and US first & foreign only if you there is no other choice.

 

[Charade]

Folks, the above quote is proof how far in the past America lives. Last year, 8 of the top 10 auto plants for efficiency in the US were the Big 3. I even find it funny but Chrysler had the most efficient plant in the US.

What? This is recent data. Please provide proof of that.

 

[ScottJ]

http://www.oliverwyman.com/content_images/OW_EN_Automotive_Press_2008_HarbourReport08.pdf

Your statement was based on 20 years ago. Basically, all automakers are the same except imports enjoy benefits handed by our governments to them.

 

[minnie61650]

What? This is recent data. Please provide proof of that.

From this website:

http://www.edmunds.com/repairshops/all/Texas/BuffaloGap.html

GM plant productivity even with the best-Toyota.
by 62vetteefp on Fri Jun 01 08:57:16 PDT 2007


General Motors Corp., once the symbol of big, slow corporate America, virtually matched Toyota Motor Corp., the icon of lean manufacturing, in North American assembly plant productivity last year for the first time since it has been measured, industry research group Harbour Consulting reported Thursday. Toyota logged 22.05 hours of plant labor per vehicle assembled, while GM reported 22.15 hours, a difference of one-tenth of an hour, or just 6 minutes per vehicle. "General Motors essentially caught Toyota in vehicle assembly productivity," consultancy President Ron Harbour said. The results come at a turbulent time for Detroit's signature industry and at an interesting crossroads in the GM-Toyota relationship that hinges on their manufacturing partnership in California, among other projects. Toyota seized the global sales title from GM in the first three months of the year. But at the same time, GM is working to leapfrog Toyota's fuel-efficient hybrid technology with its Volt series hybrid and fuel-cell concepts. And now GM is nipping at Toyota's heels in vehicle assembly – long a key to Toyota's success. Among Detroit automakers, GM had the most productive assembly plants in the Harbour Report, and scored best overall, including in stamping parts and building engines and transmissions. The results come as GM and other Detroit automakers prepare to begin formal contract negotiations with the UAW. Automakers' plant-floor efficiency has direct effects on bottom-line profits and allows automakers to charge consumers less or put more content, such as air bags or electronics, into vehicles. GM said its latest Harbour Report results tell a story of its continuing improvement, with GM closing the productivity gap with Toyota by nearly 85 percent since 1998 and capturing bragging rights as the first automaker to have its plants capture top productivity honors in three of Harbour's four award categories. GM won in vehicle assembly, engine-making and transmission manufacturing. It did not win in stamping. "GM's leadership in three of the four manufacturing categories demonstrates we are transforming the company for sustainable, long-term success," Gary Cowger, GM group vice president of global manufacturing and labor relations, said in a statement. "This success is a result of our people being involved in the business like never before." Analysts said the marked improvement in productivity is important, but is just one of many things GM needs to accomplish and continually improve as it fights to return to profitability and restore its reputation as a quality manufacturer and battles Toyota for the dominant spot in the global auto industry. Those things are all important to avoid further North American losses and job cuts at the company. Harbour said GM's improved productivity is impressive because it came amid production cuts of about 5 percent last year and before the company fully realized the benefits of cutting its hourly workforce by 34,410 through a buyout and early retirement program. "Improving productivity in the face of lower production is a huge accomplishment, but none of the domestic manufacturers can afford to let up," Harbour said. ..... But GM plants took top honors in three Harbour categories, and its vehicle assembly productivity trailed Toyota by just 6 minutes. "We are virtually deadlocked," said GM spokesman Dan Flores, adding that GM – like Toyota – is focused on continuous improvement. The Oshawa, Ontario, plant that assembles the Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick LaCrosse and Buick Allure led assembly plants for the most efficient productivity, with 15.68 hours per vehicle, followed closely by the adjoining Oshawa plant that produces the Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo. GM's Spring Hill, Tenn., four-cylinder engine plant turned in the best performance of any engine plant, at 2.27 hours per engine, edging out Toyota's Buffalo, W. Va., plant by just more than 1 minute, with 2.29 hours per engine. And GM's Toledo transmission plant took top honors, with 2.54 hours per transmission. Toyota and Honda transmissions were absent from the top transmission lists because none of the Japanese automakers had a full transmission plant at the time of the survey, Harbour said, adding that that will change. .....

 

[ScottJ]

I don't think workers should take a pay cut. They need to get rid of 1/2 of them since their competition can build just as many cars with 1/2 the workers at about the same pay. What are those other workers doing? Why do the Big 3 require twice as many workers as their competition?

Could you provide proof of this? I don't think you can.

 

[Charade]

From this website:

http://www.edmunds.com/repairshops/all/Texas/BuffaloGap.html

Ok. Great. Let's see if they can do that with the same number of employees as their competition.

 

[minnie61650]

Why do you think the Detroit 3 needs half the employees?

 

[ScottJ]

Since we have provided proof to contradict what you have stated. Could you please provide PROOF to your argument or stop bashing America.

 

[mumom95]

I'd still like to know why the UAW members won't take an immediate pay cut.

 

[gmboy95]

Why is it that the automotive industry, and its employees are more important than other American's?

Where were you when all the other manufacturing jobs disappeared to overseas? Where were you all as the customer service representatives jobs disappeared overseas? Where were you as the computer jobs disappeared overseas? Do you really think there were less jobs hemorrhaged to India or fewer families hurt? Are all those people any less unemployed? They are just as important and I am irritated by the amount of special consideration that is being given to an extremely small percentage of our population. This isn't to say you don't matter, you absolutely do, but not any more than anyone else.

I would really like it if the government would start paying attention to the big elephant in the room, that being the rest of this country.

It is not that easy...the auto industry acounts for 3 million jobs nationwide...it is a lot more then just the auto workers. It is steel workers, car salesman, parts dealers etc...I think this bailout makes a hell of a lot of sense..if GM goes bankrupt..thousands will lose their jobs...it is possible to provide a bailout while demanding reform at the top levels

 

[LisaR]

This is an EXCELLENT commentary written in late 2006. While it is a commentary, it quotes many sources. I am certain most of you that believe the Big 3 produces nothing but crap, can't make a fuel efficient car to save their lives and think Toyota can do no wrong will not bother to read it. I know most of you would much rather stick with your mantra that the Big 3 sucks. Go ahead. Live a little and enlighten yourself. I promise it won't hurt too bad.

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/bamw/bamw-061129-auto.shtml

 

[minnie61650]

Ok. Great. Let's see if they can do that with the same number of employees as their competition.

Here is a list of the cutbacks since 2005:

2005
April 19: General Motors posts $1.1-billion US loss in its first quarter. Full story.

Countries with the largest auto-making industries:

Japan
U.S.
China
Germany
South Korea
France
Brazil
Spain
Canada
June 7: General Motors announces plans to cut at least 25,000 jobs in the U.S. by 2008. Company CEO Richard Wagoner doesn't say whether Canadian jobs will be cut. Full story.

Oct. 8: Auto parts maker and General Motors' spinoff company Delphi files for bankruptcy. Full story.

Nov. 21: General Motors announces the closure of 12 manufacturing plants, resulting in the loss of 30,000 jobs across North America, including 3,900 jobs in Ontario. Full story.

2006
Jan. 23: Ford announces cuts of 30,000 North American jobs as part of massive restructuring plan. About 1,700 Canadians jobs are affected. Full story.

Jan. 24: DaimlerChrysler announces plans to cut 6,000 administrative jobs in a bid to trim costs by $1.2 billion US a year. Most cuts were in Germany. Full story.

Feb. 10: Volkswagen AG announces a restructuring plan that could cut up to 20,000 jobs in its passenger car division in the next three years. None of the cuts will take place in Canada. Full story.

2007
Jan. 25: Ford announces record annual loss of $12.7 billion US. Full story.

Feb. 14: Chrysler announces 13,000 North American jobs will be cut — including 2,000 in Canada — over the next three years. Full story.

Aug. 30: General Motors announces cuts of 1,200 production jobs at Oshawa truck plant. Full story.

Nov. 1: Chrysler announces it will cut as many as 12,000 North American jobs, including 1,100 at its Dodge Magnum assembly plant in Brampton, Ont. Full story.

2008
Feb. 27. BMW announces plans to cut 5,600 jobs by the end of 2008. Most of the job cuts are in Germany.

Within the European Union, an estimated 2.3 million people are directly employed by the auto industry.
April 28: General Motors to cut 3,500 jobs by scaling back shifts at four North American assembly plants. As many as 970 people in Oshawa, Ont., are affected. Full story.

May 12: General Motors says it will close a Windsor, Ont., transmission plant by 2010. As many as 1,400 people to lose their jobs. Full story.

June 3: General Motors assembly plant in Oshawa announces as many as 2,600 people could be laid off when a pickup truck plant closes in 2009. Full story.

June: Volvo cuts 2,000 jobs worldwide.

June 18: Magna auto parts plant in St. Thomas, Ont., cuts 400 jobs. The company makes frames for GM trucks. Full story.

June 19: Formet automotive parts plant in St. Thomas, Ont., announces 400 people to be laid off.

June 27: Mitsubishi announces plans to cut 105 workers and 10 per cent of its output in the U.S.

July 8: Fiat, Italy's largest automaker, announces plans to scale back shifts at six of its Italian assembly plants.

July 15: GM announces plans to cut its white-collar workforce, spending on marketing and more production cutbacks, saving $15 billion US by the end of 2009.

Six companies build vehicles in Canada:

GM
Ford
Chrysler
Toyota
Suzuki
Honda
July: Sterling Truck plant in St. Thomas, Ont., cuts 720 jobs.

Aug. 6: Toyota lays off 800 workers at Japanese production plant. Blames sinking North American sales.

Aug. 28: Auto parts plant Linamar Corp. of Guelph, Ont., announces it will cut as many as 500 people from its 12,000-strong workforce. Full story.

Aug. 29: Toyota announces temporary production cuts to plants in Britain and Turkey.

Sept. 6: Toyota delays full production at SUV assembly plant in Woodstock, Ont.

Sept. 9: French automaker Renault to cut 6,000 European jobs by 2009.

September: U.S. auto sales crash, plunging 27 per cent from the same month a year earlier.

Oct. 8: Volvo cuts 4,000 jobs worldwide.

Oct. 13: Nissan announces it will cut 1,680 jobs at an assembly plant in Barcelona, Spain; published reports say Volkswagen-owned Spanish carmaker Seat to lay off 4,700 autoworkers and tire-maker Bridgestone to cut 2,800 jobs from two Spanish plants.

Japan produced 11.6 million vehicles in 2007, while the U.S. produced 10.8 million.
Oct. 14: Daimler Trucks to lay off 2,300 employees in Ontario and Portland, Ore.; Ontario's Sterling Truck announces it will shut down in less than one year, throwing 1,300 people out of work.

Oct. 16: General Motors says it will lay off 1,600 employees at three assembly plants in Michigan and Delaware.

Oct. 20: 100 employees laid off from Ford assembly plant in Oakville, Ont.

Oct. 21: Nissan announces production cuts in U.S., Japan and Spain.

Oct. 23: Volvo to cut 850 jobs at its construction equipment unit in Europe. The announcement follows an earlier cut of 1,400 workers at truck plants in Belgium and Sweden.

Oct. 23: Chrysler to cut 1,825 factory jobs in the U.S.; GM announces it will cut 5,000 jobs, cuts benefits.

Oct. 24: Chrysler announces it will cut 25 per cent of its salaried workforce.

Nov. 7: Ford to cut 10 per cent of its North American salaried workforce costs by the end of January. The cuts could mean the elimination of roughly 2,260 white-collar jobs. Full Story.

Nov. 7: General Motors says it will temporarily lay off about 3,600 workers, including 500 at its plant in Oshawa, Ont., as it slows vehicle production. Full Story.

Nov. 10: General Motors cutting another 1,900 workers at parts stamping, engine and transmission factories in North America. Full Story.

I am adding this one as one of friends is among these 5,000:

The day before Thanksgiving (2008) Chrysler cut 5,000 white collar workers.

 

[ScottJ]

Out of all the problems the Big 3 have, the biggest is changing the minds of Americans about the perception of what they make.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I honestly haven't a clue about how this will play itself out - everyone was willing to deal except the UAW - sad, very sad.

I'm not surprised. The unions were once useful.....but, that time has passed. They are instrumental in bringing down the Big 3 and still haven't a clue what's going on.

 

[yeartolate]

Out of all the problems the Big 3 have, the biggest is changing the minds of Americans about the perception of what they make.

The longest my last three cars (camry and two corollas) have ever spent in the shop was for a timing belt that took an hour (probably less, but I had some shopping to do). I have NEVER had a tuneup on my cars. I get oil changes about twice a year. I usually just do what oil changers says.
My last two cars lived to nearly 200,000 miles and only died because they were murdered by cell phone toting idiots behind the wheel.

Now, contrast that with friends and coworkers with American cars. I am always hearing of their mechanical issues. Big ones at that. I hear about how they are glad about the 100,000 mile warranties.

Seriously, a car is a utility for me. I have no interest in bigger and better. I want to get from A to B and be first and foremost reliable. I want good mileage (my Corolla gets 35 plus) but again, I want reliable above all else. I want to give my son my current car in 2 years - so he can have a reliable car (and if my prior experiences are any guide, he will take this car to college).If I need a bigger car, I go on Priceline and rent it.


I do not care what reports tell me. I care what I see around ,me. When I see American cars being more reliable, I will take a second look. When I hear my coworkers stop complaining about their car woes, I will buy differently, but until then, I will keep my Corolla.

 

[adkkev]

Now, contrast that with friends and coworkers with American cars. I am always hearing of their mechanical issues. Big ones at that. I hear about how they are glad about the 100,000 mile warranties.

Our 1993 Ford Escort wagon retired at 260,000 miles. No major work done on this vehicle outside of routine maintenance (including brakes, etc.)

Our 1998 Ford Escort ZX2 continues to roll on at nearly 140,000 miles and is driven daily (90 miles r/t). no major work done either

Our 1986 Ford Taurus wagon retired from our family at 160,000 miles ... our son sold it so he could have a truck. No major work done on this car either ... we also towed our pop-up camper with this car.

Our 1997 Jeep Wrangler had 110,000 miles when we sold it so we could purchase a new Wrangler. And quite a number of those miles were not highway miles but backroad/off road miles. again, no major work.

We had a 08 Toyota Corolla in May when visiting Disney ... seemed to be pretty solid but our 10 year old ZX2 has more get up and go than this Corolla had ... and this Corolla had roughly 4500 miles on it.

Our personal experience with American vehicles has been very good.

 

[BillSears]

Out of all the problems the Big 3 have, the biggest is changing the minds of Americans about the perception of what they make.

And using tax payer dollars to stay in business when the public is against the bailout is the wrong way to get Americans to support you. Many people will never forgive the Big 3 if they take the bailout.

 

[yeartolate]

Our 1993 Ford Escort wagon retired at 260,000 miles. No major work done on this vehicle outside of routine maintenance (including brakes, etc.)

Our 1998 Ford Escort ZX2 continues to roll on at nearly 140,000 miles and is driven daily (90 miles r/t). no major work done either

Our 1986 Ford Taurus wagon retired from our family at 160,000 miles ... our son sold it so he could have a truck. No major work done on this car either ... we also towed our pop-up camper with this car.

Our 1997 Jeep Wrangler had 110,000 miles when we sold it so we could purchase a new Wrangler. And quite a number of those miles were not highway miles but backroad/off road miles. again, no major work.

We had a 08 Toyota Corolla in May when visiting Disney ... seemed to be pretty solid but our 10 year old ZX2 has more get up and go than this Corolla had ... and this Corolla had roughly 4500 miles on it.

Our personal experience with American vehicles has been very good.

I am glad for your experiences, but it doen't match what I see around me. I don't mean to make it like American cars are dead and dying in the road, but when a coworker has car issues, it is usually American made. When I see something different around me, I will change my mind.

 

[mfd25wife]

Our 1993 Ford Escort wagon retired at 260,000 miles. No major work done on this vehicle outside of routine maintenance (including brakes, etc.)

Our 1998 Ford Escort ZX2 continues to roll on at nearly 140,000 miles and is driven daily (90 miles r/t). no major work done either

Our 1986 Ford Taurus wagon retired from our family at 160,000 miles ... our son sold it so he could have a truck. No major work done on this car either ... we also towed our pop-up camper with this car.

Our 1997 Jeep Wrangler had 110,000 miles when we sold it so we could purchase a new Wrangler. And quite a number of those miles were not highway miles but backroad/off road miles. again, no major work.

We had a 08 Toyota Corolla in May when visiting Disney ... seemed to be pretty solid but our 10 year old ZX2 has more get up and go than this Corolla had ... and this Corolla had roughly 4500 miles on it.

Our personal experience with American vehicles has been very good.

I'm still driving my 2001 Chevy Tahoe with 152k on it now. I just recently had to replace the alternator and have had to replace a switch a couple of months ago. I don't even remember what it was. I do regular maintenance, but it's easier for me since paramedic dh fixed autos before he fixed bodies.

DH drives 150m r/t to work 10-11 days (24hr days). His last two trucks have been GM. The first one was good for over 200k and this one is going great.

Mileage is not great, but we chose mine for long cheer trips, vacations and boat pulling. His was because he wanted a truck to carry various firefighting and sort gear and that stuff stinks too much to want to keep inside a vehicle.

I did drive a Honda, and it was great. But, it was not better than my Tahoe. I don't drive the truck much so I can't compare it.

 

[Charade]

I am glad for your experiences, but it doen't match what I see around me. I don't mean to make it like American cars are dead and dying in the road, but when a coworker has car issues, it is usually American made. When I see something different around me, I will change my mind.

I have a 2005 Chevy Malibu that just turned 119,000 miles. It's 3.5 years old. It's still running great. I have a couple of bent rims (aluminum) that's causing a vibration but other than oil changes, brakes, tires (the normal stuff) I've had zero problems. It need to last for at least another 1.5 years when the loan is done and then I can either keep running it into the ground or switch to a company car.