WWYD? Pay Issue....

[RachelsMommie]

OP, I am a software engineer, am female, and am a team lead. Give HR a chance to fix the situation. You cannot prove sexual discrimination easily in this case and if you start threatening them, you are risking your career there as well as elsewhere. People in the industry have friends at other companies and they talk.

I understand your frustration, but mistakes happen. It sounds like your boss is possibly incompetent but I doubt anything illegal is going on.

I have a peer that makes $30k more than I do. He was demoted to a position level with me but they didn't reduce his salary. I don't let that bother me as his salary has no impact on mine.

Good luck!

 

[PrincessDadx2]

So what is your damage?

If the top of the range is $150k and you are paid $100k I don't see how you are harmed. They should fix the range.

If you were denied raises because you were over the midpoint (for ex.) then I would expect them to fix the band and return the money I was shorted.

If the raises are discretionary, and not based on the band then you got screwed by a bad manager and too bad for you. Get a new manager

Need to know how you were hurt. The band really has no impact unless it is tied into your compensation adjustment. Certainly not discrimination unless they don't put you into the proper band after it is brought to their attention.

 

[timmac]

I would definitely favor being the cooler head in this situation. Sure, you can go in with the attitude of what they *will* do, but you could just as well find yourself out on the street unemployed. In theory, it's nice to think "that would be illegal, so I'd have another lawsuit", but having a lawsuit against a company (that may take many months if not over a year to fully resolve) won't put food on the table meanwhile. And, as I'm sure you are well aware, no lawsuit is a guaranteed victory, either. While the gender difference might seem obvious to you, it's only three people in total we are talking about, which doesn't necessarily indicate a pattern of illegal behavior. Depending on your state laws, and concepts like "right to work", one could potentially even make an argument that your continued employment with this company over the last two years is prima facie evidence of your continued acceptance of the pay rate. I realize this isn't actually the case, but it might easily play out that way in a courtroom.

So, as a few PPs have already hinted, see what plays out, have good documentation, etc. I know it's seeming pretty unfair, but you might need to just roll with the punches on this one. I'd definitely consider looking at other employment opportunities meanwhile. Even if this whole situation is resolved without shouting matches or threats, I suspect that anything less than a pay raise with the full duration worth of back pay is going to leave you with a pretty sour taste afterwards. Be ready for that possibility, and a potential move to greener pastures.

 

[CraftyMommy]

There is a Fortune 200 company in my area that pays employees who have the same job title at different pay bands. My husband has had employees, who he supervises, get hired in at the same or lessor job title than him and be put in a higher pay band than him.

The company has NO responsibility to put all of its employees in the same pay band. Each person can negotiate their own salary with the company. The company is not obligated to pay everybody the same.

If you have concrete proof that a company put you in a lesser pay band because you are a woman, or they're keeping you at a lower pay band because you are a woman, then that's grounds for being suing.

Maybe the other people negotiated higher salaries? Maybe they have some other certification or asset that is worth more to the company? Unless you know what is inside each coworker's HR file: resume, certifications, performance evaluations, pay negotiations, etc, you cannot say the difference in salary is because you are a female.

Another example...my husband supervises a team of programmers. One of the programmers he supervises, who just has a regular developer title, does really sloppy work full of lots of bugs. All of that developer's projects constantly go over budget and never go in on time. That employee threatened the higher up bosses that he would take another job and leave the company if they didn't give him a promotion. The higher up bosses didn't have any promotions available but they did increase him to the next pay band to make him happy. Now the crappy employee with the lessor title is making more than my husband, who does do great work, because the higher up bosses who sit behind desks and push papers all day were convinced by this guy that the department would be lost without him working there. He got a $35,000 raise because he talked them into giving him one. Nobody else at his level makes near what he does. And now he's making $10K more than (my husband) his supervisor. And the company is allowed to do that.

When my husband told me about this I told him to complain to HR, and that it can't be right. The higher up bosses don't even see that guys performance evaluations. My husband and his Director do the guy's evaluations and know how he works, or lack thereof. My husband said it didn't matter. Its all politics, and if you're willing to play the game, you can sweet talk the VP's into giving you a raise whether you deserve it or not....and it done all the time in the IT industry.

There is no law that says you have to pay your employees the same. Its all about what YOU negotiate with your employer.

 

[BBandDisney]

Besides being money savers, the Budget Boards are full of lawyers.

 

[danygirl]

first, I would use some of the resources out there on the web to determine what folks in comparable positions to yours outside your company make. That will let you know if you are in the correct band, and give you some data to share in your meeting.

second, when we had an issue with DH, we paid a labor lawyer for an initial consult. after meeting with her, we came away still believing their was age discrimination, but understanding that we had no way to prove it. The lawyer can help you determine whether you have a case, or what info you would need to determine this. I think we paid $200 for our consult, which she put on retainer against any future billing if we elected to move forward (which she discouraged)

three, talk to some head hunters in the area. they can give you an idea what other opportunities are out there - this is information you can use to determine what your next steps are. You don't want to give an ultimatum if you don't have any good alternatives. On the other hand, if you have great external options it is easy to say "see ya"

 

[MomToOne]

I have been denied raises because I was "at the top of the pay bracket" because of the mis-banding, despite my VERY strong performance reviews. When I pushed back and asked what had to happen to get put into the next band, I was told the only way to do that was to "get a promotion". But I had already HAD the promotion that should have put me into the next band, HR just some how "didn't have it in their files". These are all THEIR rules re. banding and how titles associate to the bands, and the salary ranges are set. I didn't make them up. They did. I was expected to play by their rules when they thought I was in one band and I did. But now the cards are turned and they have to play by their OWN RULES. So yes, because I share an equivalent title with the 2 males, I am due the same band as them. Does the company have to structure pay that way? No, but they did and once they did, they set the playing field and the rules. Again - these are the COMPANY'S RULES, not mine, I am just expecting them to play by them, just as they expected me to play by them before.

 

[2disneyboys]

I have been denied raises because I was "at the top of the pay bracket" because of the mis-banding, despite my VERY strong performance reviews. When I pushed back and asked what had to happen to get put into the next band, I was told the only way to do that was to "get a promotion". But I had already HAD the promotion that should have put me into the next band, HR just some how "didn't have it in their files". These are all THEIR rules re. banding and how titles associate to the bands, and the salary ranges are set. I didn't make them up. They did. I was expected to play by their rules when they thought I was in one band and I did. But now the cards are turned and they have to play by their OWN RULES. So yes, because I share an equivalent title with the 2 males, I am due the same band as them. Does the company have to structure pay that way? No, but they did and once they did, they set the playing field and the rules. Again - these are the COMPANY'S RULES, not mine, I am just expecting them to play by them, just as they expected me to play by them before.

I totally get what you are saying and can say that I would be furious as well based on the info you have shared with us.

based on my HR experience & the details you have given, my advice would be:
1. Give them a reasonable (2-3 business days) to respond.
2. Listen to their response. If the response is what you wanted to hear, smile, accept and move on. If not, tell them you need some time to "think about it"
3. If you don't agree with their response, this is where you use that time to "think" compare their response to the date you have compiled regarding what you feel is "fair" solution. If there is a huge difference, then consider consulting with an attorney to determine your case, odds of winning and overall take away( how long could the case take, what will the attorney cost) or consider accepting the offer and then proceeding to look elsewhere.
4. Go back to them& counter and have plenty of facts on why you feel what they offered is not fair. Hold any "lawsuit" cards in your pocket... now is NOT the time to play all your cards.
DONT get all hot headed because as soon as you do, (case or no case) they will "Shut down" and even if you win this "battle" your odds of winning the "War" are slim.

Good Luck OP - this seems a very volatile situation and I'm hoping you and your company come to a resolution you can all live with. I would also consider making sure the HR folks know the problem you have with your supervisor.. I mean, in for a penny, in for a pound, KWIM? Good Luck!

 

[crisi]

1. Be prepared to lose your job. I've seen companies appear to outsource entire departments to get rid of a problem employee and lawsuit.

2. If you file suit, be prepared to have significant legal fees. An attorney may take it on contingency, in which case, be prepared to not see much of a check.

The best option is to find a new job that will pay you what you are worth.

 

[PrincessDadx2]

I have been denied raises because I was "at the top of the pay bracket" because of the mis-banding, despite my VERY strong performance reviews. When I pushed back and asked what had to happen to get put into the next band, I was told the only way to do that was to "get a promotion". But I had already HAD the promotion that should have put me into the next band, HR just some how "didn't have it in their files".

Do you know how much you were shorted? For ex. you make $100k and you get a letter saying you earned a 3% raise but the top of the bracket is $101k so your pay only increased $1k. That would make it straightforward and easy to show the impact to you.

Another way at it was if you know what the average raise was for someone of your performance rating for that year. Then you could compare that to what you actually got. HR could do this easily.

If you got a raise, but it was less than you wanted and you "think" you were punished for being at the top of the band it may be you just have a bad boss. They saw you were close to the top and used that fact to short you and use the money for others, without saying that you deserved more. That will make things harder to validate.

Either way, if you have the same title and responsibilities of a higher grade you should be moved up because it sounds like they made a mistake grading your position. I would expect them to move you up or tell you that you don't qualify because of xx, which maybe you did not consider. Maybe the next level requires to supervise people, or have a masters degree, or 8 years experience etc.

If they decide it was an error then I would pursue the compensation based on what I thought my loss was as detailed above. If they decide it was not an error then you are stuck unless you can get a promotion or consult an attorney. Either the reason is legitimate under the law or it is not.

If they decide it was an error, change your grade, but don't compensate you I think that is a pretty good indication that this is not a company that I want to work for long term. Again, you could consult an attorney but my guess is it would be much cleaner to just move on to a position where you are compensated appropriately.

 

[davedmaine]

I found out today they my company "accidentally" classified me in a lower pay range than I was supposed to be at about 2 years ago when they did a mass pay range restructuring. 2 male co-workers with titles equivalent to mine but who were under a different manager were classified correctly.

I am the top producer in my group BY FAR but my manager doesn't especially like me. She is civil to me, but not much more than that. Several times I questioned the fact that I was bumping the top of (my lower than it should have been) pay range, and she would just shrug her shoulders and say that that's where HR set it, there was nothing she could do. She never questioned HR about it, hence them not realizing something was wrong. Quite frankly, I believe she was happy to have any convenient excuse to limit my raises.

Anyway, my company is now "researching" the proper pay scale for me and is saying they MAY adjust my salary. But they need to make sure the job description is updated, etc. first. After thinking about things and doing some googling, I want to go into HR tomorrow and say there is no MAY about it - they WILL be adjusting my salary and WILL be doing it retroactively. If they do not (which I wouldn't put past this company to try to do), I will file a gender pay discrimination complaint, based on the fact that my male co-workers with equivalent titles have apparently been paid correctly the entire time. The one complicating factor is that while the 2 male co-workers have equivalent titles, they are not exactly the same - we are all classified as "leads" but all in different areas of Software Development (one in testing, one in development, one in business analysis) - we all work on the same systems though, and should all have the same salary range classification in our company, but each flavor of the title will have a slighty different pay range based on current market prices for that title.

But I tend not to have the coolest of heads at times - am I going too far??

(Obviously, 2 years of back pay at what I estimate to be 10-15% of my base salary would help my Disney budget...)

I'd think twice about that.. You're going to get yourself fired

 

[tracaline]

One question, these bands, do they overlap at all? For example, the band you are currently in, say it's $75,000 to $150,000 and the next band (where the others are) is say $100,000 to $175,000. If you are paid anywhere between $100,00 and $150,000 they may not owe you anything, because it technically could be in either band..... Does that make sense? Just be careful about throwing out the words lawsuit and discrimination, most states are right to work, and you could find yourself out of a job.