Would you cross a picket line?

[sarasotamom]

AS a union worker you MUST do the job you were hired to do or you can and will be fired.

Give me a break...Do you really think that the UAW workers that made the Chevrolet car that I looked at were fired??? The dealer did not care...The consumer did. That is my point. They do not care about putting out a quality product. Now, they are suffering from this compliant attitude.

A union worker does not have to do the job he was hired to do in your world..
In my world, all workers; union or non-union should aspire to give a quality product.

Union rules make a product cost more because of their rules to protect a union worker. Try to get a lightbulb changed in a union job. It is crazy all the red tape that you must go through - not to mention - the added cost.

That is what is wrong with union jobs. In today's global market, unions put their companies at a disadvantage. For example, the UAW has proven that it would rather put GM and Chrysler in bankruptcy, in lieu of making concessions. Although I have believed from the beginning, bankruptcy is the best possible solution to keep the American autoworkers in business.

 

[Anewman]

My husband's company wanted to get rid of his straight pension and they almost went out thank god for his union. They had 6 billion dollars in this pension fund. All that money was going to reabsorbed back into the company with all the interest. That's what happens wo your union. 9000 members were going to walk out. You guys be happy in your dream world of being treated fairly and without your unions.

That does not sound legal, WITH OR WITHOUT a union.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

Yes. Absolutely. Not that I intend to ever work somewhere that is unionized.

 

[BigGoofy44]

No, you never anwered my question. If you think companies should not be allowed to fire an employee unless they have an acceptable reason, do you also think employees should be required to stay at a job unless thay have an acceptable reason to quit?

What do you consider an acceptable reason to quit? Would wanting to take a one year sabbatical be an acceptable reason? How about wanting to go back to college? What about finding another job with better pay and better benefits that would also give the person more authority?

There is a problem with keeping an employee with the company if they don't want to be there. If that employee is not happy with the company then they will actually cost the company money in effectiveness. Now I do agree with some noncompete agreements and stipulations to prevent someone from taking company secrets.

 

[Magic Mom]

What do you consider an acceptable reason to quit? Would wanting to take a one year sabbatical be an acceptable reason? How about wanting to go back to college? What about finding another job with better pay and better benefits that would also give the person more authority?

There is a problem with keeping an employee with the company if they don't want to be there. If that employee is not happy with the company then they will actually cost the company money in effectiveness. Now I do agree with some noncompete agreements and stipulations to prevent someone from taking company secrets.

Those are all good reasons to me. I don't have a problem with at-will employment. Employees and employers should be able to break away when they choose. I don't think employers should be bound to an employee.

 

[daughtersrus]

There is a world of difference between workers serving the public good, and the union they belong to serving the public good.

That doesn't answer the question. Are all unions bad including those that represent firemen, police officers, teachers... and therefor should be eliminated?

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Give me a break...Do you really think that the UAW workers that made the Chevrolet car that I looked at were fired??? The dealer did not care...The consumer did. That is my point. They do not care about putting out a quality product. Now, they are suffering from this compliant attitude.

A union worker does not have to do the job he was hired to do in your world..
In my world, all workers; union or non-union should aspire to give a quality product.

Union rules make a product cost more because of their rules to protect a union worker. Try to get a lightbulb changed in a union job. It is crazy all the red tape that you must go through - not to mention - the added cost.

That is what is wrong with union jobs. In today's global market, unions put their companies at a disadvantage. For example, the UAW has proven that it would rather put GM and Chrysler in bankruptcy, in lieu of making concessions. Although I have believed from the beginning, bankruptcy is the best possible solution to keep the American autoworkers in business.

My husband is here home now and he says that is complete and utter nonsense about the light bulb. They do make sure that people who do a certain job are properly trained beforehand. Unlike nonunion workers.
As far as the UAW they did make concessions. The union workers were not the ones responsible for putting out suboptimal cars. They were told what to do and how to do it by the corporate executives. One of my husband's teachers in school worked for Chrysler many years ago and he was told by management to hammer every third screw to increase productivity. He did what he was told to do. Is that the union's fault? I also read somewhere which I mentioned posts back about the cost of insurance and those causing a lot of issues with the UAW. I do think that not all unions are perfect and some better than others but to blame them for all which is happening is just nonsense. Many union jobs now require you to take a day off a week or time off a year now bc of the economy.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

You seem to be taking all this too personally. I'm sure your husband is a hard worker, you don't have to defend him.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your remarks. You keep praising the protection that employees get from unions, then shrugged off hornedfrogs post about horrible slackers with "it can happen anywhere". So, I take it you agree then, that it is better for employers to be allowed to promote and fire employees based on the quality of their work, rather than merely on seniority?

My husband's new job he got last year does not work on seniority, it works on ability and training of certain jobs. They offer up training and schooling also. Not all unions work the same.

 

[sarasotamom]

My husband is here home now and he says that is complete and utter nonsense about the light bulb. They do make sure that people who do a certain job are properly trained beforehand. Unlike nonunion workers.
As far as the UAW they did make concessions. The union workers were not the ones responsible for putting out suboptimal cars. They were told what to do and how to do it by the corporate executives. One of my husband's teachers in school worked for Chrysler many years ago and he was told by management to hammer every third screw to increase productivity. He did what he was told to do. Is that the union's fault? I also read somewhere which I mentioned posts back about the cost of insurance and those causing a lot of issues with the UAW. I do think that not all unions are perfect and some better than others but to blame them for all which is happening is just nonsense. Many union jobs now require you to take a day off a week or time off a year now bc of the economy.

My point being..I can change the lightbulb myself, but union rules will not let me. As for your husband's teacher, if the union was so good, why did they not go to upper management and say that their supervisor was asking them to do sub-par work? Proves my case... no one cares about pride in their work..they know they will have a job.

Your gripes about non-union is the intimidation and fear of complaining to superiors for fear of being fired. If it really was this way, then the autoworker would have no reason not to go above his supervisor. As per cutting down on hours per week, many workers are willing to do this, in these times just to keep their jobs. Union or non-union these are difficult times that we must adapt if we as a country or going to survive.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

As someone else mentioned, you seem to be taking this all so personally. Do you think it is only just about you?

I spent 7 years getting paid a salary less than what I was hired at; again, why do you think you deserve privileges that other people don't have? Why are you so special?

I feel bad for you and I had similar happen to me.

I have been insulted and even my family, your buddy, saying something about my family thinking they are owed something, answering u in your post, so yes I was taking it personally. Especially since I have never even seen my parents let someone even buy them a soda, lol. People were answering my specific posts. I know a lot about unions bc my father used to go to Washington and petition for union workers rights for his local and he was elected by his members bc he was intelligent and honest and fair and well liked. He was not even paid for this.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

My point being..I can change the lightbulb myself, but union rules will not let me. As for your husband's teacher, if the union was so good, why did they not go to upper management and say that their supervisor was asking them to do sub-par work? Proves my case... no one cares about pride in their work..they know they will have a job.

Your gripes about non-union is the intimidation and fear of complaining to superiors for fear of being fired. If it really was this way, then the autoworker would have no reason not to go above his supervisor. As per cutting down on hours per week, many workers are willing to do this, in these times just to keep their jobs. Union or non-union these are difficult times that we must adapt if we as a country or going to survive.

Ridiculous point, it came down from management, nonunion management which told the people on the production line to speed up production by hammering in every third screw. What would have happened if he refused? That is insubordination and he will be fired for not doing what he was told.

Yes my point about the union workers is that we are all doing what we can INCLUDING UNION workers. Just for the record anyway, I own a Chrysler PT Cruiser and love it, rides like a dream. My husband has a Dodge Dakota, and we also have a Ford Explorer, and a Ford RV. All American and guess what, no problems ever with any of them.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

My point being..I can change the lightbulb myself, but union rules will not let me. As for your husband's teacher, if the union was so good, why did they not go to upper management and say that their supervisor was asking them to do sub-par work? Proves my case... no one cares about pride in their work..they know they will have a job.

Safety is their utmost concern, it is safety issues with the lightbulb. May seem silly but that is the reason. I personally think a lot of the problems has to do with insurance.

 

[hornedfrog]

My husband is here home now and he says that is complete and utter nonsense about the light bulb. They do make sure that people who do a certain job are properly trained beforehand. Unlike nonunion workers.

Now THAT is complete nonsense. Most managers in my area of the business were promoted from the ranks...i.e. they are former technicians. They are generally more skilled, have more experience and are better trained to do the jobs than the technicians. They just can't because it is union work. It is those managers who will BE the technicians if there is a strike. They have received more training hours in the past 6 months than the union technicians will in the next 2 years.

 

[hornedfrog]

There are many that ride on the back of others at many jobs....He did see that some took advantage at his other job while others did a lot of the work and unfortunately that can happen anywhere at any job.

And anywhere else, those people are not protected by a legally binding contract and can be dealt with fairly.

 

[hornedfrog]

All of your questions have been answered many times over, its just the answers you don't like unfortunately.

Alright...it is at this point that I drop out of the discussion. Ridiculous.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

That does not sound legal, WITH OR WITHOUT a union.

They were going to change to a 401K style retirement plan. 401K is not secure. Straight pension is guaranteed money every month for yrs of service.

I'm done, I'm as sick of hearing myself as you are of hearing me, then I need to go, lol.

 

[birdiesunshine]

AS a union worker can I shed some light on your lightbulb example. Lets say your a teacher in a school and your class room lights don't work. You call in the electrician and he checks it out and says it is just a bulb. He won't change it because its not in his job description. He calls the janitor and he changes the bulb. Now could you, the teacher have changed the bulb, sure you could but your job is to teach. How would you like it if one day the principal said the janitors were going to teach.

Its called crossing crafts. No union member does it , not because they don't want to , but to provide job security for everyone . If everyone needed or did everyone elses job everyone would be out of a job. In addition it gives the electrician a chance to do more of the things he is trained to do and compensated to know. The teacher can teach and the janitor can do his job and the system works. Do we really want top craft electricians doing the work of janitors and if janitors were to do the work of electricians then that would devalue the wages of the electricians. No disrespect to any of these hard working professionals just an example.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

AS a union worker can I shed some light on your lightbulb example. Lets say your a teacher in a school and your class room lights don't work. You call in the electrician and he checks it out and says it is just a bulb. He won't change it because its not in his job description. He calls the janitor and he changes the bulb. Now could you, the teacher have changed the bulb, sure you could but your job is to teach. How would you like it if one day the principal said the janitors were going to teach.

Its called crossing crafts. No union member does it , not because they don't want to , but to provide job security for everyone . If everyone needed or did everyone elses job everyone would be out of a job. In addition it gives the electrician a chance to do more of the things he is trained to do and compensated to know. The teacher can teach and the janitor can do his job and the system works. Do we really want top craft electricians doing the work of janitors and if janitors were to do the work of electricians then that would devalue the wages of the electricians. No disrespect to any of these hard working professionals just an example.

Thank you for that, and my husband just told me the same. Another thing that really angers him is the insinuation on these boards about union workers being lazy and doing their minimal. At my husband's job if he doesn't do 100%people can be KILLED. It is extremely dangerous work.

 

[georgina]

But if the janitor is busy and the kids sit around with no lights for days because no one else will do it, who suffers?

Your example highlights exactly what people don't like about unions - the electrician could have changed the light bulb in 5 minutes, but in order to protect someone else's job, he wouldn't, which is very inefficient.

 

[birdiesunshine]

But if the janitor is busy and the kids sit around with no lights for days because no one else will do it, who suffers?

Your example highlights exactly what people don't like about unions - the electrician could have changed the light bulb in 5 minutes, but in order to protect someone else's job, he wouldn't, which is very inefficient.

Actually it's more efficient and do you really think it would take days to get a janitor to get a light bulb?

Here's another example. Your staying in a hotel . You ordered room service and the room hasn't been cleaned yet. It doesn't matter who shows up first but for arguements sake it is the food. Should the food and beverage employee stop what hes doing and find sheets and towels to make your bed while other people who orderd food are waiting for their orders. NO. He's capable of doing it right? He's an employee of the same hotel right? He or she knows where the sheets and towels are kept right? Exactly my point. It isn't efficient for him or the hotel to let him take care of your dirty room right now so you wait for a maid. Had the maid showed up first should he go get your food. NO he cleans your room. He doesn't cross crafts. Maids get paid maids money and food wookers get paid food and beverage pay.

So this is why we don't like unions because workers stick together to protect other workers and make their companies run more efficient.