Will you be vaccinated for Swine Flu?

I would like for my 18 and 14 yr old to get it IF they make it to mid Oct without getting it. It is running rampant since college and school started back 2 weeks ago. Has taken off like wildfire. Everyday we hear of an acquaintance that has been diagnosed. DD's High School sent a letter out already about the number of cases at the school. The kids FB pages are filled with "swine" talk now.

We all get the regular influenza shot each year. Have not got that yet, it is a bit early. Will wait until later this month so that it will last through the regular flu season that usually peaks in Feb.
 
Because obviously I have not researched it yet, which is why I am still on the fence. And yet at 1 in a million, MORE people died from the vaccine. And my risk in minimal.
I think that if you just go with 'In 1976 more people died from the vaccine than from swine flu' then you are doing yourself a disservice. In 1976, 25 people died from GBS. Also, three senior citizens died hours after being immuniazed, but these deaths weren't actually linked to the vaccine. 48 million people received vaccinations against this flu.

Therefore, if the odds of death from the vaccine were to be the same with this current H1N1 vaccine (even though teh risk of getting GBS from a vaccine is much less than it was in 1976, based on more recent flu vaccine administrations), your chances of dying from the H1N1 vaccine would be 1 in almost 2 million. What's the odds of getting killed by H1N1, somewhere between 1 in 4000 and 1 in 12000?

Here's a good article written by a doctor that discusses GBS and teh H1N1 vaccine. It's worth a read.
 
In the article the doctor says that the vaccine is made like the seasonal vaccine. I really don't know how anyone can make that claim as there are several companies rushing to make the H1N1 vaccine. At least one contains an adjuvant (there has never been a flu vaccine licensed in the US that contains an adjuvant). Until we know which vaccine ends up being distributed we cannot make an informed decision as to whether or not to take the vaccine.
 


In the article the doctor says that the vaccine is made like the seasonal vaccine. I really don't know how anyone can make that claim as there are several companies rushing to make the H1N1 vaccine. At least one contains an adjuvant (there has never been a flu vaccine licensed in the US that contains an adjuvant). Until we know which vaccine ends up being distributed we cannot make an informed decision as to whether or not to take the vaccine.

cruisnfamily, an adjuvant is a substance added to the vaccine to increase the immune response.

However, according to the most recent information I can find (Sept 2, 2009)
it does not seem likely that an adjuvant will be added to H1N1 vaccine.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/statelocal/qa.htm


CDC Novel H1N1 Vaccination Planning Q&A
September 2, 2009, 11:45 AM ET


Q. Will vaccine be adjuvanted?
A. It is unlikely H1N1 vaccine will be adjuvanted. Definitive information will be available once clinical trial data are available.

Q. If vaccine is adjuvanted, how will it be formulated?
A. Formulation will vary by provider. For Novartis, vaccine may be preformulated with adjuvant. For CSL, GSK and Sanofi Pasteur, mixing of vaccine and adjuvant at the site of administration will be necessary. Specific information on storage requirements and procedures for mixing vaccine and adjuvant will be provided by CDC. Medimmune vaccine will not be adjuvanted.

I am starting to wonder if the season will have peaked by the time the vaccine is ready, though. I guess we'll just have wait and see.
 
Tuesday, August 25, 2009
While Swine Flu Vaccine Has Been Declared "Safe", Novel Adjuvants Will Be Used Before Any Meaningful Testing has been Conducted




Dr. Meryl Nass is an expert on vaccines.

Over the years, I have found Dr. Nass to be reasonable, balanced and well grounded in science in her discussions about the anthrax attacks and the criminal investigations into Dr. Hatfield and Dr. Ivins. So I wanted to see what she thought about the safety of the swine flu vaccine.


On July 3rd, Dr. Nass discussed the use of the adjuvant called "squalene" in swine flu vaccines (an adjuvant is a chemical which increases the body's reaction to a vaccine, and thus stretches the number of doses which a given quantity of vaccine can produce):

The US government has contracted with at least 5 pharmaceutical manufacturers to develop and produce H1N1 vaccines, using a variety of platforms and manufacturing methods...

A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and Glaxo-Smith Kline is the addition of squalene-containing adjuvants to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities.

Each company has its own proprietary adjuvant, acquired in each case at high cost and intended for the high-stakes business of rapidly producing vaccines for novel pandemics or biological warfare threats.

Novartis' adjuvant is named MF59, and Glaxo's is ASO3. We know they work beautifully to strengthen vaccine efficacy. But how safe are they?

That is a very difficult question to answer. Novartis claims MF-59 has been used safely by over 40 million people. However, FDA has not seen fit to approve even a single US vaccine that contains these novel adjuvants.

On August 11th, ABC News wrote an article entitled "Swine Flu Vaccine: What The Heck Is an Adjuvant, Anyway?" Commenting on the ABC article, Dr. Nass wrote:

One error in the article is this statement: "No link has ever been proven between vaccine and Guillain Barre" Syndrome (GBS). Actually, about ten separate studies of the 1976 swine flu vaccine confirmed that the rate of GBS increased 6 to 10 fold in the 6-8 weeks after vaccination. The link has been absolutely confirmed in all the medical literature. I discussed it as an expert witness in a legal case and the opposing attorney didn't challenge the link...

Fauci continued, "There's not a lot of data on adjuvants in young kids--even from the Europeans." [Not to mention lack of data in pregnant women, the potential to cause cancers, etc.--Nass]

Here's a key point: novel adjuvants stretch the supply, so from the perspective of getting enough vaccine for the country or the world in a hurry, they would be indispensable. But from the point of view of the individual, the risk-benefit calculation is problematic.

The June 19, 2009 Science magazine discussed use of novel, antigen-sparing adjuvants for the swine flu pandemic. It quoted Norman Baylor, director of FDA's Office of Vaccine Research and Review, who pointed out that antigen-sparing strategies benefit populations, not individuals. "You have to think about those trade-offs," Baylor said.

If Baylor doesn't understand the issue of novel adjuvant safety, then nobody does.
On August 15th, Dr. Nass noted that British doctors are weary of the vaccine, as it contains squalene:

The Daily Mail reported on letters sent to 600 neurologists in the UK by its Health Protection Agency, asking them to be observant for, and immediately report, cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome [GBS].

The letter is a tacit acknowledgment of the risk of using an untested vaccine with novel ingredients. But it also indicates that the UK's health services are cognizant of the risks and are taking them seriously, setting up improved surveillance so that if the vaccine does cause Guillain-Barre, vaccinations can be stopped promptly. Bravo.

However, the risk does not begin and end with Guillain Barre Syndrome, as Dr. Tom Jefferson, head of the Cochrane Collaboration vaccine group pointed out in the article. Cochrane performs meta-analyses of the entire world literature on medical therapies. Unfortunately, Cochrane has not found any literature on the squalene-containing adjuvants set to be used in some (most?) swine flu vaccines:

‘New vaccines never behave in the way you expect them to. It may be that there is a link to GBS, which is certainly not something I would wish on anybody.

‘But it could end up being anything because one of the additives in one of the vaccines is a substance called squalene, and none of the studies we’ve extracted have any research on it at all.’

That is the bigger problem: the potential variety of adverse reactions to the vaccine is very large, and it will be very difficult to sort out quickly (before tens or hundreds of millions have been vaccinated) which might be vaccine-related.

On August 23rd, Dr. Nass wrote:

The Washington Post's Rob Stein updates us ...:






Another wild card will be whether the vaccine will be delivered with an "adjuvant" to boost its effectiveness or stretch limited supplies into more doses. Adjuvants have been used in Europe, but the Food and Drug Administration has not authorized their use in the United States.

Officials stress that they are proceeding cautiously. A final decision to move forward will not be made until they get the results of clinical trials -- testing to determine safety and dosing -- and assess the virus's threat. But officials are confident the vaccine will pass muster and expect a campaign will be launched as soon as manufacturers deliver the first vials.

Authorities are adamant that vaccination will be voluntary, and they say there is no reason to think the vaccine will be any less safe than the usual flu vaccine. An adjuvant will be used only if necessary and proven safe, they say...

[So tests of swine vaccines using novel adjuvants won't start until mid to late September, but vaccine is expected to be available for use in mid-October. If I understand this correctly, the adjuvants will have been tested for less than 4 weeks when they start being used. Yet autoimmune side effects take months to appear, in general. GBS took 4-8 weeks. Why aren't they already in US clinical trials?!--Nass]
And on August 24th, Nass pointed out:
A US News article of Aug 21 claimed,

"Early results for this first trial among adults have found the vaccine to be safe with no serious side effects," said Tony Fauci.
Yet the reportage is misleading. Since none of the US trials have so far used novel adjuvants, they fail to provide any information about the safety of MF59 or ASO3-adjuvanted vaccines.
Dr. Nass - an expert on Gulf War Syndrome - has also pointed out that the official, Congressionally-chartered Research Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses found evidence of a link between squalene and Gulf War Syndrome which warranted further study.

I asked Nass if the rumors that the swine flu vaccine contains much higher amounts of squalene than the Gulf War vaccine is true. She responded by email:

No one knows how much, if any, squalene was in which vaccines used in the Gulf War vaccine, as the government has denied using it and there was no vaccine tested independently.


However, compared to the parts per billion squalene measured in 5 lots of anthrax vaccine by FDA around 2000, use of current squalene-containing adjuvants is likely to provide many orders of magnitude more squalene per vaccine dose than found by FDA.


No one knows what this means: i.e., how much it takes to cause adverse effects and what kind, in which populations.
 


What would you do if you were me.. I plan on talking to my daughters dr about it but I'll ask the all knowing people of the dis first.. my dd who is 8 was born with a congenital heart defect repaired at 6months of age with surgery (open heart). Now she's "as good as possible" after her repair but still she will never have a "normal" heart. Would you get her the vaccine? She had all the others up til now. This one worries me because its sooooo new . I am on the fence on if I should get it for her or not. I keep playing the "what if game" in my head.. what if I make the wrong choice? Being a parent and making these decisions sucks sometimes...

I would do alot of research and do what you feel is right. I love the Vaccine Book by Dr Sears. It is NOT a Anti-Vaccine book, just gives you the facts of all vaccines so you as a parent can make an informed decision.
 
I will end up getting both shots. I know that if I don't, I'll end up sick. The two times I've not gotten the regular flu shot, I've ended up getting hospitalised with serious complications because I have asthma and a heart condition. My husband has no choice, he has to get both shots because he's military.
 
I'm getting the regular flu shot, but only because it's provided for free by my workplace and I've already been awfully sick this season. I have no insurance yet, as I just started this job a few months ago and am not eligible for insurance until January, so I don't know if it was H1N1 or just the regular flu, but I know I caught it at work. I work in health care.
 
As of now, it's mandatory for me to get the H1N1 vaccine. But it was also mandatory for everyone in the hospital to get the regular flu vaccine, but now they ran out of vaccines, so they changed the policy to only people with direct patient care.
 
Yes we will be getting it. My dd has asthma and dh has open heart surgery 5 years ago and also has crohns.
I spoke to our ped. yesterday about it and he told me that it is made just like the regular flu vaccine and it is not to be feared.
 
Probably not. We did get regular flu shots, but I'm not comfortable with the H1N1 and what I've been reading about it.
 
I will be getting both, today I get my regular flu shot and then in two weeks, I will get the swine flu shot, plus start on Tamiflu for 3 to 5 months... Why you wonder. I am a rare pancreas transplant patient, and that is the decision the team has made.
 
No way we will get this. But we are a family that is selective delayed vaccines.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that your family typically delays getting flu vaccines fora few months to see if any unexpected problems are caused by them? If so, I wonder why you would get these vaccinations at all, since by that time you would have either already caught the flu or would be significantly less likely to get it.
I'm getting the regular flu shot, but only because it's provided for free by my workplace and I've already been awfully sick this season. I have no insurance yet, as I just started this job a few months ago and am not eligible for insurance until January, so I don't know if it was H1N1 or just the regular flu, but I know I caught it at work. I work in health care.
It is crazy that anyone should have to wait this long to be eligible for insurance through work. For jobs in health care to pull this kind of thing is unconscionable.
 
If I can find it, yes. I just had the regular flu shot Monday. The flu almost killed my wife about 6 years ago, so I'd rather not have us go through it again if I can help it.
 
Well, the swine vaccine might be too late for us. DS14 was sent home with "flu like" symptoms today. He said he had a stomach ache this morning but no fever, nothing else. He tends to get low blood sugar upset stomachs and I know he didn't eat well yesterday so I figured it was that. He ate breakfast and said he was fine. He came home at 10:30 with 100° fever and his legs are sore. I don't know how "flu" like they are. I called the Dr because he does have asthma and they said to wait until later today to see if his symptoms get worse. If they do they will test him to see if he needs Tamiflu. I would rather NOT bring him into the dr if he doesn't have the flu and increase the chance of him getting exposed to the flu.
 
Just remember, the rapid test has a very high false negative rate, so if he has asthma I would be proactive about the Tamiflu regardless of what the rapid test says.

CDC Again Cautions Against Using Rapid Flu Tests for H1N1 Detection
September 25, 2009


CDC today said findings from a recent H1N1 outbreak in the US reaffirmed its recommendation against using rapid influenza diagnostics testing to ID the virus.

However, it said that RIDTs, which typically yield results in 30 minutes, can still be used to detect seasonal flu and suggested they may have value in certain settings, especially in hospitals that cannot afford real-time RT-PCR tests.

The analysis, which relied on a single undisclosed RIDT, said they “detected less than half the cases confirmed by rRT-PCR” and that “[t]he low sensitivity and low negative predictive value of the test during these outbreaks highlight the limitations of using this test alone to establish diagnosis and aid clinical management” of H1N1.

“These results affirm current recommendations not to use negative RIDT results to rule out pandemic H1N1 or to make infection control decisions,” CDC said in a statement, dated Sept. 25 but released late yesterday afternoon.

The analysis was based on an H1N1 outbreak in a pair of schools in Connecticut this spring. It “affirm recent CDC recommendations against using negative RIDT results for management of patients with possible 2009 pandemic influenza A (H1N1) infection,” the agency concluded.

Still, CDC said RIDTs “can be an important tool for patient care,” including making decisions about “isolating or cohorting patients in health-care settings and recommending or restricting patient movements in outpatient settings.”

RIDTs “might be especially important for hospitals limited by the expense of rRT-PCR and in identifying influenza during outbreaks in defined patient groups, such as those in schools or nursing homes,” CDC said.

However, the agency cautioned that “if used for management of patients with possible pandemic H1N1 virus infection, false-negative [RIDT] test reports might result in inappropriate exposure of susceptible persons to infected patients.
 

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