Why wait times have gotten crazy

[bcrook]

So, from what I'm seeing here, I guess I should expect that, when I get to the parks on Friday, things will be completely different than they were in April and May.

I wonder why Josh at easywdw hasn't picked up on this either with all of his visits to the parks.

I think what you want is absolutes. What I'm seeing is much more volatility. It is less predictable. there are quite a few new pressures and stresses at play now. Seeing huge standby lines at Pirates and Haunted Mansion at 8:30 pm and packed FP queues at PP is disconcerting. This was my third FP+ trip, it gets less predictable each time. I guess that is because more and more people are booking in advance.

Plus, for me the parties at MK and Epcot complicate things even more. I sure learned a lot on my last trip.

 

[bltman]

I counted 18 parties in October this year which seems 2 to 3 more than usual. if attendance is increasing and capacity is decreasing (which is what a party does) the lines at rides will become unbearable. I think even removing 1 party per week would help with lines.

 

[Mikie]

Im confused why it would shock some that there would be lines for the FP+ return. Ride capacity hasn't changed and this system doesn't make them anymore efficient loading. If it's to be believed they jumped from 20% to 80% FP then you're just shifting bodies from one line to the next.

Thank you for saying this! I keep trying to explain my reasoning but you did so in a quick efficient way.

Capacity doesn't change and ride loading doesn't change so the only thing that can change is where people wait.

I was thinking the same, this has been documented dozens and dozens of times by long time posters and newbies alike. Countless pictures have been posted of this. Websites like touring plans have recorded this, and yet, people want to show up and deny this happens ? I just don't get it. This is the new reality.

I still love Disney world, love it. But lets at least be honest about whats going on can't we ?

I'm not "shocked" but am surprised. In theory, the shift of where people are waiting shouldn't be explained by increased FP return lines, but by the increased standby lines documented on the secondary rides. As someone else in this thread mentioned, FP+ is (should be) a "just in time" inventory. FP return shouldn't be a physical line, but a virtual one. You are supposed to be out doing something else - eating, shopping, taking a break, riding a different ride while you are simultaneously standing in a virtual line, coming back "just in time" to get on the ride with little to no physical waiting. People have pretty readily attributed the increased SB waits at secondary attractions to this phenomenon - people are physically in the now-longer SB lines while being at the same time in the virtual FP line. Those same people are already in two places at one time, but a long physical FP return line puts them in three places at once. I don't quite get why the FP return *physical* line has increased and why the TP analytics don't address it. . . well, they do address it, they say it's not significant, which contradicts what an increasing number of people on DIS seem to be reporting.

 

[tj4disney]

wisblue, I would merely say that you can't know what to expect. The examples I gave for Space Mountain and TSMM were only once out of several times that we rode each of those rides. All I know is that I never saw anything like those inverted SB/FP lines in many visits prior to FP+. Even aside from those two examples, I still felt like FP was generally longer than it used to be, but I don't have any hard numbers/times to back that up.

I also wonder why Josh hasn't run into these types of oddities.

 

[wisblue]

There are a number of obvious things that could cause a FP return line to get long. Things like more FPs being issued, a ride closure earlier in the day causing people with earlier times to come back later, or people being given any time or any attraction FPs because of a breakdown at another attraction. And I could see that, if they see the FP line being slammed, the ride operators would post an extremely long standby wait time to discourage people from entering. That would allow them to load almost entirely from the FP line, resulting in the type of inverted line being described here.

For example, over Easter week we were in line for Everest in the morning and, after we were assigned to a row, the ride went down. After a few minutes they ushered everyone out of the line area and gave everyone an any attraction FP. The ride was down for a couple of hours. We used our FPs for a second Safari and came back later to ride EE single rider. As we left EE, we saw that the FP return line went out across the bridge toward the Nemo theater. I suppose I could have taken a picture of that, but what would it prove? That a ride breakdown causes a backlog just like a car accident creates a traffic jam.

I am used to dealing with variations in lines at WDW and changing plans on the fly as we see that a ride is down or has a longer line than we expected. And seeing long standby lines in the evening for popular attractions (and I include rides like POC and HM in that category) is nothing new for people who are used to visiting over the holidays. It just sounds like holiday type lines now are appearing at traditionally slower times. We know how to deal with that.

The obvious question is how common some of these long FP lines are. While it is probably impossible to be too precise about that, it shouldn't be hard to identify if they are happening for a few hours every day or for a short time once every few days or few weeks. When people describe these things as the "new normal", it certainly suggests that they are more the rule than the exception. But, even on this thread, there seem to be conflicting reports if that's the case.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

I actually was really concerned about this party-day phenomenon. Since you have about the same number of guests (maybe a little less) but the FastPass supply is going to cut off early, would the fewer available FPs make an impact on the day... Sounds like it is...

Also you sound like you tour like us, going for the mornings... How was rope drop?

I think availability is also affected by all of the people booking afternoon FP with their MNSSHP/MVMCP tickets. We were never able to get more than 4 FP.

I counted 18 parties in October this year which seems 2 to 3 more than usual. if attendance is increasing and capacity is decreasing (which is what a party does) the lines at rides will become unbearable. I think even removing 1 party per week would help with lines.

In October, there were 4 parties a week. Last year, the beginning of the month only had 3. I do think that extra night made a big difference. Then it was compounded by the change in EMH days, so that morning EMH were not on party days this year.

 

[MrInfinity]

Yes, this was our experience on party days. On our arrival day there were only 3 fp+ choices available for a 4th at appx 4pm..iasw, dumbo, and Philharmonic - all were for the last fp+ window of the evening, 5:30-6:30p. We didn't realize that the fp+ windows ended so soon...we figured there would be windows from 5:35-6:35, 5:40-6:40, etc, or we would have made it to a kiosk sooner. But all the reports I read around our trip last year reported similar findings on party days. The general recommendation that came out of that was having your 3 prebooked fp end NLT 1pm if you wanted a shot at more 4th fp+ options on party days.

Crowds were OK until around 4pm. Once party guests were allowed in, lines started to jump quickly.

Well that's good, our plan is to only be there till 4:30 or so, then we have dinner plans elsewhere on those days. I'm really hoping crowds are significantly lighter during the day. But I'm rethinking this, since there is approximately 33% of the day's time lost... (10-hour day vs 15-hour day) but I don't think there are going to be 33% fewer people in general admission that day over a longer day.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Well that's good, our plan is to only be there till 4:30 or so, then we have dinner plans elsewhere on those days. I'm really hoping crowds are significantly lighter during the day. But I'm rethinking this, since there is approximately 33% of the day's time lost... (10-hour day vs 15-hour day) but I don't think there are going to be 33% fewer people in general admission that day over a longer day.

We hopped away on both party days (both to Epcot to take in F&W offerings), and it worked out well. We got a lot accomplished at RD (of course), staying away from Fantasyland. In our experience last year, Adventureland and Frontierland were ghost towns until around 10:30am or so. Everyone's heading to SDMT and A&E which opens up the other areas of the park for quite some time.

If we were going back there this year, we would probably just plan to only have the 3 FP+ and strategize around that rather than try to go for 4th fP+ in MK on a party day.

 

[MarieKat]

Does the My Disney Experience app have any influence over the FP situation? Someone mentioned runners; when my husband and I ran out of FPs we'd just reserve more on our phones, no need for standing in a line. ?

 

[mom2rtk]

Does the My Disney Experience app have any influence over the FP situation? Someone mentioned runners; when my husband and I ran out of FPs we'd just reserve more on our phones, no need for standing in a line. ?

Anything after your first 3 have to be made at a kiosk. They can be changed on the app, but have to be acquired at a kiosk first.

 

[tlmadden73]

I would just love to see some actual Fast Pass data.
How many fast passes do they issue per "hour" slot for a specific ride? (Say Buzz for example?)
Does that number change depending on the time of day or the day of the week or the time of the year? (You would think it would).

The hour window makes things odd too.
What happens if everyone who has a fast pass window of 11:30 - 12:30 shows up at noon. And everyone who has a fast pass between 11:35 and 12:35 .. shows up at noon .. and everyone who has a fast pass between 11:40 and 12:40 .. ALSO show up at exactly noon. (You get the picture) ..
That would make an uncontrollably long Fast Pass line and make the standby line (even if it is super short) ... a really long wait.

I just wonder how they control that?

 

[mom2rtk]

I would just love to see some actual Fast Pass data.
How many fast passes do they issue per "hour" slot for a specific ride? (Say Buzz for example?)
Does that number change depending on the time of day or the day of the week or the time of the year? (You would think it would).

The hour window makes things odd too.
What happens if everyone who has a fast pass window of 11:30 - 12:30 shows up at noon. And everyone who has a fast pass between 11:35 and 12:35 .. shows up at noon .. and everyone who has a fast pass between 11:40 and 12:40 .. ALSO show up at exactly noon. (You get the picture) ..
That would make an uncontrollably long Fast Pass line and make the standby line (even if it is super short) ... a really long wait.

I just wonder how they control that?

They could allow it to self regulate by letting people come back later in the day when the line is shorter if they encounter a long return line.

Oh wait............

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I would just love to see some actual Fast Pass data.
How many fast passes do they issue per "hour" slot for a specific ride? (Say Buzz for example?)
Does that number change depending on the time of day or the day of the week or the time of the year? (You would think it would).

The hour window makes things odd too.
What happens if everyone who has a fast pass window of 11:30 - 12:30 shows up at noon. And everyone who has a fast pass between 11:35 and 12:35 .. shows up at noon .. and everyone who has a fast pass between 11:40 and 12:40 .. ALSO show up at exactly noon. (You get the picture) ..
That would make an uncontrollably long Fast Pass line and make the standby line (even if it is super short) ... a really long wait.

I just wonder how they control that?

I think the short answer to that last question is they don't.

 

[prettypatchesmsu]

We just returned form our 3rd trip using FP+ 10/23-11/1. Previously, I had never minded the system. However, on this trip we found our passes virtually useless in terms of saving time standing in line. We had ridiculous wait times to just get to the first check point and then another 20 to 30 mins before we got on the ride. It happened in every park. TSMM, POTC, HM, SDMT, BTM, TT, Soarin' etc. We used our pass first thing in the AM to try and get more for the afternoon but on party days at the MK there is nothing available except SW and a few others. Since we had to wait so long in the FP+ lines our chance at short waits for other rides was vastly diminished. This is the first time in 12 years that my DH and DD said we didn't ride on anything. We like to tour the parks in the morning have lunch maybe another ride or two and then head back to the pool. Then a nice TS meal. Since every secondary ride now has a 30 min wait we just didn't accomplish much. From a ride standpoint our trip was very disappointing.

I am very conflicted about FP+, I had loved it in 2013 when we went because, I'll admit we were double dippers. We were the testers who got to do FP+ and FP-, so it rocked. I could change our FP+ on the fly, there were no tiers, it was awesome. Fast forward to our Sept 29-Oct 9 trip. It was a total different story with FP+. We did rope drop with the usual good luck for the first few hours and I had scheduled noon to early afternoon for our FP+ rides. Thinking....thinking that we would be able to do 4th, 5th FP+ at the kiosks. What I did not truly realize was that they were going to be pretty much gone at all the parks or the times for rides we did not want so late that it was not worth it to us. We rode the speedway one night as a FP at 8pm, because that was all that was left. We had never rode it, it wasn't really a priority ride for us. We also experienced the long FP+ line waits sometimes.
There were so many things we did not get to ride this trip that it is crazy as we were there so long. The wait times were higher than we had ever seen and I was shocked. We love HM and PC, but I'm not waiting 75 minutes in the standby line for anything. So I totally agree with you and can understand what you are saying about your trip. As we had the same problems. We have a trip planned for 2016, and I am going to have to totally rework our strategy. I had not done the parades, firework FP+s as I did not want to waste the additional kiosk opportunities, so now I'm thinking that is stupid as you probably cannot get a 4th, 5th you want anyways. So maybe it's better to book for later in the evening at your second park.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I am very conflicted about FP+, I had loved it in 2013 when we went because, I'll admit we were double dippers. We were the testers who got to do FP+ and FP-, so it rocked. I could change our FP+ on the fly, there were no tiers, it was awesome. Fast forward to our Sept 29-Oct 9 trip. It was a total different story with FP+. We did rope drop with the usual good luck for the first few hours and I had scheduled noon to early afternoon for our FP+ rides. Thinking....thinking that we would be able to do 4th, 5th FP+ at the kiosks. What I did not truly realize was that they were going to be pretty much gone at all the parks or the times for rides we did not want so late that it was not worth it to us. We rode the speedway one night as a FP at 8pm, because that was all that was left. We had never rode it, it wasn't really a priority ride for us. We also experienced the long FP+ line waits sometimes.
There were so many things we did not get to ride this trip that it is crazy as we were there so long. The wait times were higher than we had ever seen and I was shocked. We love HM and PC, but I'm not waiting 75 minutes in the standby line for anything. So I totally agree with you and can understand what you are saying about your trip. As we had the same problems. We have a trip planned for 2016, and I am going to have to totally rework our strategy. I had not done the parades, firework FP+s as I did not want to waste the additional kiosk opportunities, so now I'm thinking that is stupid as you probably cannot get a 4th, 5th you want anyways. So maybe it's better to book for later in the evening at your second park.

I agree. If there is any decent crowd level the 4th FP+ is a mirage.

 

[dlavender]

I agree. If there is any decent crowd level the 4th FP+ is a mirage.

I wish that they would go ahead and just get rid of that option to get a 4th FP. As mentioned previously, they are usually for attractions that don't need a FP. All the FP does then is clog up the system. Maybe they keep the illusion of getting meaningful FP's out there to help better distribute passes? To encourage early use for some instead of everyone choosing peak times? Either way, just get rid of the option.

 

[Jennytoon]

I wish that they would go ahead and just get rid of that option to get a 4th FP. As mentioned previously, they are usually for attractions that don't need a FP. All the FP does then is clog up the system. Maybe they keep the illusion of getting meaningful FP's out there to help better distribute passes? To encourage early use for some instead of everyone choosing peak times? Either way, just get rid of the option.

You know, if you don't like the 4th FP and beyond because it never seems useful to you, fine. Don't use it. It's not mandatory.

But if you don't mind, I would appreciate that you stop suggesting that they just take it away, because I *do* actually like it and would like to continue to use it.

 

[dlavender]

You know, if you don't like the 4th FP and beyond because it never seems useful to you, fine. Don't use it. It's not mandatory.

But if you don't mind, I would appreciate that you stop suggesting that they just take it away, because I *do* actually like it and would like to continue to use it.

Well I'll amend my statement, (because I know Disney is going to implement everything I say), get rid of the 4th FP, except let Jennytoon get as many as she wants to ETWB, IASW, Little Mermaid, and Dumbo.

Also, I would like free tickets for life.

And, please change the Stitch ride to something else.

You are welcome everybody. (except for those that like the Stitch ride)

 

[flicx]

Actually how about 1 attraction pre book fast pass the rest legacy style?

 

[larryz]

Wow... it sure seems argumentative in this thread...