Why wait times have gotten crazy

[MrInfinity]

We just returned form our 3rd trip using FP+ 10/23-11/1. Previously, I had never minded the system. However, on this trip we found our passes virtually useless in terms of saving time standing in line. We had ridiculous wait times to just get to the first check point and then another 20 to 30 mins before we got on the ride. It happened in every park. TSMM, POTC, HM, SDMT, BTM, TT, Soarin' etc. We used our pass first thing in the AM to try and get more for the afternoon but on party days at the MK there is nothing available except SW and a few others. Since we had to wait so long in the FP+ lines our chance at short waits for other rides was vastly diminished. This is the first time in 12 years that my DH and DD said we didn't ride on anything. We like to tour the parks in the morning have lunch maybe another ride or two and then head back to the pool. Then a nice TS meal. Since every secondary ride now has a 30 min wait we just didn't accomplish much. From a ride standpoint our trip was very disappointing.

I actually was really concerned about this party-day phenomenon. Since you have about the same number of guests (maybe a little less) but the FastPass supply is going to cut off early, would the fewer available FPs make an impact on the day... Sounds like it is...

Also you sound like you tour like us, going for the mornings... How was rope drop?

 

[MaryKatesMom]

We just returned form our 3rd trip using FP+ 10/23-11/1. Previously, I had never minded the system. However, on this trip we found our passes virtually useless in terms of saving time standing in line. We had ridiculous wait times to just get to the first check point and then another 20 to 30 mins before we got on the ride. It happened in every park. TSMM, POTC, HM, SDMT, BTM, TT, Soarin' etc. We used our pass first thing in the AM to try and get more for the afternoon but on party days at the MK there is nothing available except SW and a few others. Since we had to wait so long in the FP+ lines our chance at short waits for other rides was vastly diminished. This is the first time in 12 years that my DH and DD said we didn't ride on anything. We like to tour the parks in the morning have lunch maybe another ride or two and then head back to the pool. Then a nice TS meal. Since every secondary ride now has a 30 min wait we just didn't accomplish much. From a ride standpoint our trip was very disappointing.

One day the Standby line was a walk on while the FP+ consistently had a wait time because it takes awhile for people to use their magic bands.

 

[buzzgirls&dad]

Mr. Infinity, RD is still your friend but we used to wait 5-10 min for PP as our first ride and it was a good 20 min at RD. This was our day PP, SW, SDMT(FP+),
HM wait at 35 min before 10 am so skipped. BTM, POTC(FP+) huge, huge wait 30 min. Race to BOG 11:00 lunch. People mover, Buzz (FP+) huge wait, then ride went down just before boarding. Monster's inc. now 2 pm and left for the day. So 8 rides.

 

[Iowamomof4]

http://blog.touringplans.com/2015/11/03/magic-kingdom-intermezzo/#more-100500

Interesting charts posted by Len over at touringplans. Perhaps attendance really is up?

 

[mesaboy2]

Mesa, it's the internet. And a Disney board. As such, we will always see...

* People who see a line is 70 minutes one time, throw up a picture of some strangers at Disney World, and conclude that everyone is having to wait longer and Disney is doomed.

* People who post one-liners that add nothing to a discussion.

Señor I, you forgot:

* People who make ridiculous conclusions based on very limited data and then claim them as representative of anything close to fact.

* People who, when presented with reasonable conclusions based on voluminous data by respected sources, dismiss such data because it doesn't agree with the aforementioned ridiculous conclusions based on very limited data.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I actually was really concerned about this party-day phenomenon. Since you have about the same number of guests (maybe a little less) but the FastPass supply is going to cut off early, would the fewer available FPs make an impact on the day...Sounds like it is...

Yes, this was our experience on party days. On our arrival day there were only 3 fp+ choices available for a 4th at appx 4pm..iasw, dumbo, and Philharmonic - all were for the last fp+ window of the evening, 5:30-6:30p. We didn't realize that the fp+ windows ended so soon...we figured there would be windows from 5:35-6:35, 5:40-6:40, etc, or we would have made it to a kiosk sooner. But all the reports I read around our trip last year reported similar findings on party days. The general recommendation that came out of that was having your 3 prebooked fp end NLT 1pm if you wanted a shot at more 4th fp+ options on party days.

Crowds were OK until around 4pm. Once party guests were allowed in, lines started to jump quickly.

 

[wisblue]

Señor I, you forgot:

* People who make ridiculous conclusions based on very limited data and then claim them as representative of anything close to fact.

* People who, when presented with reasonable and voluminous data by respected sources, dismiss such data because it doesn't agree with the aforementioned ridiculous conclusions and very limited data.

Are Len Testa and Touring Plans no longer considered respected sources with reasonable and voluminous data? Mr. Testa says that the FP+ return time is usually about 10% of the posted standby wait, though he recognizes that longer lines do occur occasionally. The exact quote is in post #678 in this thread.

If we are supposed to ignore his conclusions, what respected source with voluminous data has said that the average FP return time is now 20-30 minutes or more?

 

[mesaboy2]

Are Len Testa and Touring Plans no longer considered respected sources with reasonable and voluminous data? Mr. Testa says that the FP+ return time is usually about 10% of the posted standby wait, though he recognizes that longer lines do occur occasionally. The exact quote is in post #678 in this thread.

If we are supposed to ignore his conclusions, what respected source with voluminous data has said that the average FP return time is now 20-30 minutes or more?

Huh. I don't remember claiming anything of the kind. I am pointing out the absurdity of some of the "math" being presented here, and adding to the discussion by doing so.

 

[Retro Magic]

It's funny, I honestly can say I rarely ever wait in line any more. Here and there yes, obviously, but overall I rarely wait more than 20-30min max. Between fast passes and hitting attractions at the right time(during parades/fireworks, late nights, early mornings, etc) I seem to make my way around waits pretty well.

I didn't book Mine Train next week since I wanted to actually see the queue, but I'll just hit this at the very end of the Xmas party. If I have to wait, I'll wait. It's the end of the night anyway.

 

[magickingdomprincess]

This thread is making to question my FP+ selections/strategies for Dec. For our MK days, I scheduled the FP's starting at park opening for PP and BTMR thinking that as soon as we used our 3 that MK had plenty of rides and we'd be able to get more for secondary rides (WTP, PoTC, HM, etc) and also ride some standby. Is that a bad strategy? We're attending on a party day (but not actually going to MVMCP). When I went in May 2014 there were plenty of same day FP times available.

 

[larryz]

From what i understand only .005% were even able to understand how the old FP system worked, which led to low participation rates.

And practically nobody used it, which led to long SB lines in the evening because the FP return line was full.

 

[Mikie]

This picture is from Star Tours on a Friday afternoon. That is the FP+ return line. It was solid all the through the ride. It took us 30 minutes from the time we got in the line until we were sent to a loading bay. I have pictures like this for Spaceship Earth, and TSMM.

The standby time was about an hour. I heard people walking by saying, "Why would you get in the FP+ line like that when the Standby line is much shorter?" The standby line was much shorter - but it had a 30 minute longer wait time.

The fact that we are starting to get longer and longer dedicated queues to accommodate the FP+ returns is a red flag to me.

I'm having such a hard time gauging what's happening in the parks now with FP+ returns. In this thread, people in otherwise wide disagreement are both using waits of 15-25 minutes to discuss FP returns, pictures like this are posted, others reference "longer" FP waits. BUT Len Testa's data shows that FP return lines are not long and when I posted a thread "is a Fast pass actually fast?" Here a couple months ago, the consensus answer was yes.

I don't understand the disconnect. Do you suppose the lines are "too efficient" - meaning that they are stacked just so and any fly in the ointment knocks everything wildly out of whack? I'm thinking of O'hare airport, where their schedules are so tight and the airport so busy that there is no room to recover from any error or problem. I can recall very few times myself or hubby (who travels extensively for work) ever having an on time flight out of there.

 

[WillAustin]

This picture is from Star Tours on a Friday afternoon. That is the FP+ return line. It was solid all the through the ride. It took us 30 minutes from the time we got in the line until we were sent to a loading bay. I have pictures like this for Spaceship Earth, and TSMM.

The standby time was about an hour. I heard people walking by saying, "Why would you get in the FP+ line like that when the Standby line is much shorter?" The standby line was much shorter - but it had a 30 minute longer wait time.

The fact that we are starting to get longer and longer dedicated queues to accommodate the FP+ returns is a red flag to me.

I'm not much for spending my time running to Guest Services, but that's the type of FP+ return line that would drive me to complain.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I'm not much for spending my time running to Guest Services, but that's the type of FP+ return line that would drive me to complain.

And for that you will be given the golden pass to wait in any FP line of your choosing.

 

[DoingDisney]

Im confused why it would shock some that there would be lines for the FP+ return. Ride capacity hasn't changed and this system doesn't make them anymore efficient loading. If it's to be believed they jumped from 20% to 80% FP then you're just shifting bodies from one line to the next.

I was thinking the same, this has been documented dozens and dozens of times by long time posters and newbies alike. Countless pictures have been posted of this. Websites like touring plans have recorded this, and yet, people want to show up and deny this happens ? I just don't get it. This is the new reality.

I still love Disney world, love it. But lets at least be honest about whats going on can't we ?

 

[bcrook]

I'm having such a hard time gauging what's happening in the parks now with FP+ returns. In this thread, people in otherwise wide disagreement are both using waits of 15-25 minutes to discuss FP returns, pictures like this are posted, others reference "longer" FP waits. BUT Len Testa's data shows that FP return lines are not long and when I posted a thread "is a Fast pass actually fast?" Here a couple months ago, the consensus answer was yes.

I don't understand the disconnect. Do you suppose the lines are "too efficient" - meaning that they are stacked just so and any fly in the ointment knocks everything wildly out of whack? I'm thinking of O'hare airport, where their schedules are so tight and the airport so busy that there is no room to recover from any error or problem. I can recall very few times myself or hubby (who travels extensively for work) ever having an on time flight out of there.

These are good questions. I think there is something to the idea that everyone is walking into the park with three fastpasses in hand. Any kind of ride shutdowns affects all other rides. I got burned in DHS one day when RnRC was down, tower of terror, DHS , and star tours were flooded with riders. That wasn't the day I took the picture.

I think maybe the fastpass+ situation is much worse now because people (or at least me) book their fastpasses so far in advance and there is very little flexibility. So when I show up to face Star Tours FP line running down the street - I get more frustrated. Especially when there doesn't appear to be any complications.

The biggest benefit for FP+ is to walk in to the park late in the day to enjoy three hassle free rides. But when I try to use my FP late in the day, I usually run in to those long fastpass return lines, chaotic messes bleeding into the street, and a CM with a sign that says FP+ return line starts here. The fact that they have signs like that and CMs out on the sidewalk is a problem.

And finally, there really are queues for FP return now. And they are often full in the evenings. I was stunned at the jam packed Peter Pan FP return queue. Regardless of how long it actually takes, it is a filled queue for FP return. That never happened pre 2013.

There are definitely new variables at play. And we have to make our reservations 60 days in advance not knowing what is going to happen. After spending all that time planning, I just want it to work.

 

[bcrook]

And for that you will be given the golden pass to wait in any FP line of your choosing.

Those are very nice treats though. Very nice.

 

[tj4disney]

I agree with bcrook's earlier comment that longer dedicated FP+ lines are a red flag. We ran into that a couple times in early June.

Once was at Space Mountain...SB time was something like 70 or 80 minutes when we used our FP. So we walk in, go down those couple sets of steps, and hit the straightaway that has sloping decline, reaches a low point, and then starts going up again. Was floored to see the FP line backed up all the way to that low point, and the SB line was nowhere in sight. Turns out the FP line did move rather briskly, as we passed all of the interactive screens, but the weird thing was there was still no SB line. SB line didn't materialize until you got to the back and forth maze part of the line near the loading area. Total FP wait was probably between 15-20 minutes, but SB line had to be a parking lot....it was essentially ride reservation at that point, with a ratio way, way higher than 4:1. In my opinion there is no way that just happened...it had to be planned.

Had a similar experience once at TSMM...huge posted SB, but more than typically jammed FP line that was probably 15-20 minutes. SB line in the queue though shorter than one would guess for the posted SB time.

Regarding why Testa and TP may not be picking up on these...I think maybe these types of tests get diluted by large average numbers. So on average it doesn't seem like much has changed, but there are definitely some large variances that are occurring. Given the flexibility that Disney has to pull levers that they never had before, I still say it's going to be really hard to decipher and describe exactly what's going on, or worse yet, to predict what will happen at any point in the future. "Average" simply doesn't mean as much anymore, since there is a significant variance currently in play.

 

[bcrook]

I agree with bcrook's earlier comment that longer dedicated FP+ lines are a red flag. We ran into that a couple times in early June.

Once was at Space Mountain...SB time was something like 70 or 80 minutes when we used our FP. So we walk in, go down those couple sets of steps, and hit the straightaway that has sloping decline, reaches a low point, and then starts going up again. Was floored to see the FP line backed up all the way to that low point, and the SB line was nowhere in sight. Turns out the FP line did move rather briskly, as we passed all of the interactive screens, but the weird thing was there was still no SB line. SB line didn't materialize until you got to the back and forth maze part of the line near the loading area. Total FP wait was probably between 15-20 minutes, but SB line had to be a parking lot....it was essentially ride reservation at that point, with a ratio way, way higher than 4:1. In my opinion there is no way that just happened...it had to be planned.

Had a similar experience once at TSMM...huge posted SB, but more than typically jammed FP line that was probably 15-20 minutes. SB line in the queue though shorter than one would guess for the posted SB time.

Regarding why Testa and TP may not be picking up on these...I think maybe these types of tests get diluted by large average numbers. So on average it doesn't seem like much has changed, but there are definitely some large variances that are occurring. Given the flexibility that Disney has to pull levers that they never had before, I still say it's going to be really hard to decipher and describe exactly what's going on, or worse yet, to predict what will happen at any point in the future. "Average" simply doesn't mean as much anymore, since there is a significant variance currently in play.

It is becoming more like appointment riding. And if a large chunk of appointments get canceled for some reason, it throws everything else in the park off.

You examples are solid.

 

[wisblue]

So, from what I'm seeing here, I guess I should expect that, when I get to the parks on Friday, things will be completely different than they were in April and May.

I wonder why Josh at easywdw hasn't picked up on this either with all of his visits to the parks.