Why wait times have gotten crazy

[WillAustin]

It seems to do the opposite. I know crowds have increased, however, have they doubled? I have never noticed 95 min waits for Space, 60 mins for HM and POTC, until FP +. Just a personal observation. Maybe they will work out any "kinks" that are causing this, if possible.

I think a lot of people are excited that they "get 3" FPs rather than none. When expectations are long lines, 3 FPs sound better, even if the overall total daily wait is actually very long.

We can't even come close to riding what we did before FP+. We usually go during peak crowds.

 

[Planogirl]

All of this just makes me look forward to our offsite time even more. WDW is work or at least it is for us.

 

[Srtheiss]

Honestly not having FP is one reason why we like to do the parties. It is slightly cheaper than a one day ticket and we like that the line moves without having to stop and let people from the FP line in. My theory is that in order to allow all guests to have access to three FP's, they are having to distribute way more FP's than they "should." I'm hoping that they at least tinker with the ratio of FP:Standby guests. Last time we were there, the wait for Peter Pan was 60 minutes. We were able to snag a FP and were on under 5 minutes. It was good for us obviously, but maybe they should consider letting the people in the fast pass line wait at least a little longer to allow the standby waits to be more reasonable.

Thanks! Good to know

 

[DougEMG]

Went to MK today at around 1. Made 3 FP+ reservations when i got thete for small world, dumbo and the car ride in tomorrow land. Not much of a selection. Ended up leaving early.

 

[livingthedream]

I completely support the argument that the reason for longer wait times today is directly related to the fact that more people are now aware and using the FP+ system (because it is being widely promoted) relative to the number of people who used the old paper fastpass system (because far fewer people were aware of the old system, and those who were aware often did not understand how to use it).

If as many people used the old paper fastpass system as those who use FP+, I would argue that the fastpass lines then would have been as long as they are today, and therefore stand-by wait times would have been as long in those days as well. Wait --- of course, they added more attractions that are eligible for FP+, so that has to be taken into account, too. This has increased stand-by lines at those newly FP+ 'enabled' attractions, so I guess its a double whammy!

 

[ArwenMarie]

It can't just be that more people are aware of FP+ than the were paper FP though. Paper FPs ran out too.

They have to be putting more FPs into the system than they did with the paper FPs. And the more they keep doing that, the more the Standby line becomes true Standby and the more certain rides move towards a reservation-system only.

Think about a very busy week like Christmas/NewYears...How do you give everyone 3 prebooked FPs? They must have to increase the number of FPs dramatically and those spots have to come from the standby line.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

The only issue with the thought process that lines are long because more people are using FP is that one of the arguments against the old system was that they were always gone. If they were always gone under the old system then the usage argument doesn't hold up. Of course if you then want to say they give out more now then that means the long waits for SB and FP return are directly tied to the new system.

 

[bcrook]

I don't have the data to back me up (only Disney has this), but I still think that they created a product with no real need. They've created a demand when one wasn't really necessary, IMO. If rides were running at full capacity with no FP's, I think the overall experience would be better for everyone. Maybe I am completely off on this. Perhaps the main purpose of the FP + system is to merely lock people into reserving their tickets in advance, vs. day of or two week out purchases. I have to think with the huge investment in the infrastructure, however, that they feel that there is a greater purpose. Perhaps it is to give those who like to meander around a real chance at riding a few headliners, like some of the bigger spenders who do not do RD and partake in the dessert parties and the finer things in life....

All the early points by Disney management focused on using the system for things like data collection, locking people in to their vacations, buying tickets in advance, controlling crowds, streamlining staff, selling more with their magicbands, and getting more people on the rides that were under utilized. There were even dreams of making the entire park an interactive experience. They rarely discussed a better customer experience when selling this to the financial world. That should have been clear when the Imagineers were squeezed out of the process.

Now, three years later, it looks like it is evolving into a gateway to dynamic/surge pricing.

The result for customer experience overall leads to over planning through horrible software, long standby and fastpass return lines, cranky cast members, and over flowing guest service lines. All without a substantial increase in attendance.

It is amazing really. I don't know how long WDW can sustain that model.

 

[LindsayGorg]

I have a hard time believing it could be #3. We were there 9/12-9/20, and the posted times were always less than what we ended up waiting. The only exception was Mission:Space. I think FP+ is the culprit. This was our first time using the new system, and I HATE it (said in the nicest way possible ).

 

[Disneylover99]

It can't just be that more people are aware of FP+ than the were paper FP though. Paper FPs ran out too.

They have to be putting more FPs into the system than they did with the paper FPs. And the more they keep doing that, the more the Standby line becomes true Standby and the more certain rides move towards a reservation-system only.

Think about a very busy week like Christmas/NewYears...How do you give everyone 3 prebooked FPs? They must have to increase the number of FPs dramatically and those spots have to come from the standby line.

Fp's were plentiful during the week of Christmas last year. Yes hours are longer, so more fp's are available, but when you can easily switch fp's around first thing in the morning at popular rides mid day, you know they must have really upped the number of fp's for each ride when crowd levels are 10+.

So I agree. I think the number of fp's get dramatically increased during these busy times.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

The only issue with the thought process that lines are long because more people are using FP is that one of the arguments against the old system was that they were always gone. If they were always gone under the old system then the usage argument doesn't hold up. Of course if you then want to say they give out more now then that means the long waits for SB and FP return are directly tied to the new system.

I was wondering that as well. Have they increased the FP percent that much maybe?

Like if 90% ride with scheduled FP+, then only 10% have a long SB wait. Were before maybe 50% had a "slightly shorter" long SB wait?

 

[ArwenMarie]

Fp's were plentiful during the week of Christmas last year. Yes hours are longer, so more fp's are available, but when you can easily switch fp's around first thing in the morning at popular rides mid day, you know they must have really upped the number of fp's for each ride when crowd levels are 10+.

So I agree. I think the number of fp's get dramatically increased during these busy times.

Oh wow, you can switch things around easily on 10+ days? That's fascinating. I guess technically they can put 100% of the spots into FP+ if they want to. I know they would never do that since they are maintaining Standby lines, but it would interesting to know the percentage range that gets put into FP+.

 

[cygnusx1jg]

Wanted to share my experience---went to MK yesterday; it was open until 7:00pm due to the MNSSHP. Around 11:30am was walking by SDMT and it had a wait of 50 minutes with the line about 15 deep out from the standby entrance. Did everything we wanted to do, was getting tired and was near the ride again around 5:30pm; no time was on the wait clock, but the castmembers were telling everyone it was an 80 minute wait. Noticed the line actually went into the area pretty far, so we decided to go ahead and get in line--figured last ride of the day and then we'd take off since the park closed at 7 anyway.

Checked and it was exactly 5:34pm when we got in line and it was exactly 6:03pm when we got on the ride. Now I'm not saying this happens all the time and with every ride, but there sure is a HUGE difference in my mind between 80 minutes and 29 minutes and that it might be worth it to just get in a standby line if you really like the attraction--it would have been so easy to say no when told it was an 80 minute wait, but based on our circumstances at the time feel like we got a bonus by waiting less than half of the wait time given.

 

[LindsayGorg]

There were some comments about staying onsite vs offsite and how that might affect wait times...we stayed offsite and were just as crazy about squeezing every minute out of all the parks (if not more so) than anyone staying onsite. We stayed off to save money, we stayed in a 1 bedroom villa with full kitchen and laundry for the same price as a disney value resort and were within a 5 minute drive of all parks. We rope dropped every day (7 days) and stayed until the parks closed all but one day. So for anyone who thought if someone was staying offsite they weren't "doing Disney" like the onsiters, not true in our case.

The thing that frustrates me about the FP+ is how many people are booking them and then not using them? I did this once during our trip, not realizing what I had done until after. We were forced to get 3 fastpasses, but I only wanted ToT and RnRC, so my third was star tours. We left the park without using star tours, and I didn't think to cancel it. So how many people decide not to use one (or know ahead of time they're not going to use it) and therefore someone else misses out on a FP they really wanted? Obviously star tours ins't a good example since you usually don't need one, but how many people got a 7 pm TSMM because 60 days before hand they thought that was a good plan, but once they were there they got tired and left before that time, but didn't cancel it? Annoying/unfair.

HOWEVER, we were able to get 9 FP+ in one day, and got Space 3 of those times. And we left that park at 5pm, so we could have gotten more, but mostly what was left at that point were things we weren't interested in or didn't need FP+.

I would not have minded at all if when using a FP+, if we were made to wait 10 min vs 2 so the standby line could move a little bit. We were never held back for any amount of time, and I always felt bad that we didn't have to wait at all when all those people just waited an hour. Let 10 or 15 of them go, then a FP group, then 10 or 15 more SB, then FP, etc. instead of 100 FP (like we saw one day at Kilimanjaro) all at once while everyone else doesn't move at all. Maybe I'm just being too nice .

 

[MrInfinity]

The only issue with the thought process that lines are long because more people are using FP is that one of the arguments against the old system was that they were always gone. If they were always gone under the old system then the usage argument doesn't hold up. Of course if you then want to say they give out more now then that means the long waits for SB and FP return are directly tied to the new system.

Of course the argument holds up. There were fewer FP-'s issued than FP+'s. With FP+ the rides are about 50% FastPass and 50% standby. Under FP- they were around 20% FastPass and 80% standby. The lines were mostly standby. There would be a few FastPass people skipping by. That's why it was so great. It was a small resource that most guests did not use. So if you were one of those who used it, you were golden. Seriously. That's the only reason it was so great. If 90% of guests used it, you'd only have been able to get 1 in a day with the old level of distribution and rides not yet set up for FastPass. Now with FP+ almost all guests ARE using it. It comes to them, on their phone. All the guests in their target demographic already carry a smartphone anyways, and they all use it regularly to post on Facebook, take pictures, and yes, use the Disney app to pick and change rides. It's so easy it's naturally gotten wide acceptance.

This very fact that it's gotten such a wide acceptance and usage is exactly what's making it suck so bad for the few people who don't like it. When it was their (our) own private system, it was great. Now that everyone else uses it too, it's hard to get a larger share for ourselves.

Net result, we have to adapt. Evolve. Change strategies for a new system.

 

[tj4disney]

A few thoughts..first, regarding SB wait times. In June we experienced some of that, with the largest variance being RnRC...posted SB was 90 minutes (which I would typically never get in), actual was 55 minutes (this was mid-morning). I can understand jacking up the times at the end of the day to steer people away, but now it seems to occur anytime, and regularly. As a customer, that totally blows if you can't tell whether the SB time is real or inflated.

Second, FP+ puts Disney in complete charge of how they distribute the FP's with almost no transparency to the consumer. Anybody that thinks they have more control under FP+ is living in a dream world. Interesting that they could just ramp up FP's during a busy time like Christmas, thus reducing SB to a parking lot. I will be very curious to see what Len and the crew at TP can figure out, but I think it could be very difficult to decipher since the system is highly flexible and can be manipulated at will. Again, IMHO, totally blows for the customer.

Third, I've said it before, but I think Disney has this utopian idea in their head that goes like this...ok, we have 30K people in MK for a day. We'll split the crowd into 6 groups of 5K each, and each group of 5K will experience everything in one land with say a 15-20 minute wait, and then everybody takes a step to the right and experiences the next land. Voila, at the end of the day everybody has had the same experience and been able to see all of the MK (once) with minimal wait. What could be better? Ok, perhaps too Orwellian, but I think there is some truth to it. Problem is, that's not what the market wants. Or they are trying to create a market that will accept their vision. Blows for those of us who want a free market.

Fourth, I actually do think there's hope for the future. FP+ is too far ahead of its time. Many others have said it before (thinking of you, Mom2rk), but FP+ let the genie out of the bottle in that the ride capacity isn't there for the demand they created. With more capacity on the horizon for Soarin and TSMM, plus new areas in DHS, will be interesting to see how the future unfolds. Still don't like the opaqueness of FP+, but more capacity can only help.

 

[MrInfinity]

The thing that frustrates me about the FP+ is how many people are booking them and then not using them? I did this once during our trip, not realizing what I had done until after. We were forced to get 3 fastpasses, but I only wanted ToT and RnRC, so my third was star tours. We left the park without using star tours, and I didn't think to cancel it. So how many people decide not to use one (or know ahead of time they're not going to use it) and therefore someone else misses out on a FP they really wanted?

I wouldn't worry about this... you're not denying someone a FastPass. I'm sure Disney, like an airline, overbooks all the rides based on the known conversion percentage or whatever... 95% of FastPasses get used in the window, so they overbook 5% type of thing. And think of it this way... by you not using specifically your 1, everyone else in the line will go one person faster for the rest of the day. You are perhaps saving a thousand guests a second or two.

 

[Planogirl]

I have a hard time believing it could be #3. We were there 9/12-9/20, and the posted times were always less than what we ended up waiting. The only exception was Mission:Space. I think FP+ is the culprit. This was our first time using the new system, and I HATE it (said in the nicest way possible ).

Your comment is interesting. I see some people reporting longer waits than what is posted and some shorter waits. I don't doubt that both are true and wonder if that's a sign of Disney tinkering with the queues in some way. Maybe they distribute more fastpasses for certain rides at times for a variety of reasons.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Second, FP+ puts Disney in complete charge of how they distribute the FP's with almost no transparency to the consumer. Anybody that thinks they have more control under FP+ is living in a dream world. Interesting that they could just ramp up FP's during a busy time like Christmas, thus reducing SB to a parking lot. I will be very curious to see what Len and the crew at TP can figure out, but I think it could be very difficult to decipher since the system is highly flexible and can be manipulated at will. Again, IMHO, totally blows for the customer.

Exactly, it's a total mystery as to what is going on behind the scenes.

I think if anyone can figure out a pattern, it's Len and his team, but I don't think they will be able to figure anything out because it's constantly changing.

 

[Iowamomof4]

I don't understand the comments I've seen to the effect of "Even Disney seems surprised at the crowds." Really? How could that possibly be true? Doesn't Disney know how many people have made FP's for a given day in each park? How could they then be "surprised" or "caught off-guard" by the crowds? This is especially true if FP utilization is up as much as people seem to think. If very few people arrive at the park that day with no FP's, then Disney really has NO excuse for not having proper staffing and ride capacity to handle said crowds. I don't mean to sound angry, I'm just really confused about how Disney could be "surprised" by all of these people.