Why is it so hard to just say "Sorry"?

[MIGrandma]

Almost everyone on our road has chickens. We have a fenced area and also let them in the open yard. If they got hit or killed be a "natural" predator, it would be upsetting but par for the course. The problem is to have a preventable thing happen to kill them. No reason, other than the neighbor refuses to abide by the leash law.

If dogs need to be contained or on a leash, chickens should be in a coop or fenced in area. If only for their own protection from predators and your neighbors dogs.

 

[gwynne]

Depending wherr you live the threat to kill a dog for killing livestock is pretty common. I'd heard it from more than one neighbor in the 6 years I lived on a farm. If it was legal the go to was to take it into their own hands then let the law deal with it. Kind of sad but it is the way of life still in some areas.

I would think escalating with threats to kill a dog only make things worse, especially if it's not in a very rural area. If someone is miles away from neighbors, that's one thing. When folks live fairly close, I'd think calling authorities may be a better choice.
Just because shooting the dog may be legal doesn't necessarily make it a wise course of action, especially with nearby neighbors.

 

[MIGrandma]

I would think escalating with threats to kill a dog only make things worse, especially if it's not in a very rural area. If someone is miles away from neighbors, that's one thing. When folks live fairly close, I'd think calling authorities may be a better choice.
Just because shooting the dog may be legal doesn't necessarily make it a wise course of action, especially with nearby neighbors.

Yeah, it's not the dog's fault its owner doesn't keep it in its own yard either by keeping it in the house or tied up outdoors or fenced, etc. Just as it's not the fault of the chickens, but the owner, for not keeping them in a coop/fenced in area. Both owners are at fault for the death of the chickens.

 

[HM]

Maybe they aren't sorry?

 

[CPanther95]

Yeah, it's not the dog's fault its owner doesn't keep it in its own yard either by keeping it in the house or tied up outdoors or fenced, etc. Just as it's not the fault of the chickens, but the owner, for not keeping them in a coop/fenced in area. Both owners are at fault for the death of the chickens.

Agree about the dogs, but he keeps his chicken on his own property. There is NO fault on the part of the person who is on his own property.

That's like blaming someone that didn't have a fence for having a gas grill so irresistible to a neighbor that it got stolen. A fence may minimize the risk, but it's a risk that is 100% there because of someone else's negligence.

 

[ELSA711]

I understand you are upset and I would be too. I am very sorry. But just like they should pen their dogs, you should pen your chickens. The dogs IMO should not be able to get to them.
We have both, and both dogs and chickens have separate fenced areas of yard. I think my own dogs would kill my chickens if given the chance, scratch that, I know they would.

 

[Bec3b1g]

This isn't a dog problem. It's an owner problem. Having grown up on a ranch in rural WA, I'm surprised that you have no other natural predators in your area. We were constantly trying to keep coyotes and Cougars out of our chicken pen. Anyways, I understand why you like your chickens to run around the yard. I get it. But it's probably time for you to shore up your fence. I don't think you are to blame at all. Just think if you are heading in the direction of shooting the neighbor's animals, that you need to try everything on your end first.

 

[CPanther95]

Wow, I can't believe so many people think that if a dog comes on your property and kills your chicken, bites your kid - or kills your kid - it's your own fault for not putting up a fence.

It's no wonder so many neighborhood disputes that should have simple resolutions end up blowing up into huge deals.Apparently common sense isn't as common as it used to be.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

Yeah, it's not the dog's fault its owner doesn't keep it in its own yard either by keeping it in the house or tied up outdoors or fenced, etc. Just as it's not the fault of the chickens, but the owner, for not keeping them in a coop/fenced in area. Both owners are at fault for the death of the chickens.

It's the dog owners fault. I don't see how you can blame the home owner. Her chickens were on her property.

 

[Hrhpd]

I think your neighbors are totally out of line to let their dogs run free. However, I can't blame someone for avoiding talking to you and not apologizing to you after your husband's reaction was to threaten shooting--not something more normal like reporting them but, shooting them.

That was my first thought too.

While I would typically be over the top apologetic, I might avoid somebody who seemed crazy and was threatening shooting. And while threatening to shoot a dog that kills livestock may be normal in some parts, it does put the owner on the defensive, almost guaranteeing you won't be getting an apology.

I have had livestock. At least where I lived, it was always the owner's absolute responsibility to keep their livestock safe. If it wasn't the neighbor's dog, there was always the wild dogs, the coyotes, the foxes, the birds of prey. She even says that it would be an ok oops if it was a natural predator. Well, dogs are natural predators. Yes, dogs should be contained, but people are stupid and let their dogs roam free.

While I think the neighbor was way, way over the line and at fault, I also think the OP is also over the line and shares in some responsibility for not keeping the chickens safe from predators, be it the neighbor's dog or the fox in that open field next door.

Just report the dogs and keep your chickens behind a fence where predators can't get to them.

And for the record, you can't compare a dog killing a chicken to a dog coming onto somebody's property and biting a child. Chickens are normal to some breeds, biting people is not for any breed.

 

[cabanafrau]

Sorry for the sidebar, but did anyone happen to catch the Good Wife last night? Saying I'm sorry was part of the plot, and looks to be an important piece of shaping this season's plot if I'm reading the tea leaves right.

OP I'd have qualms about addressing this directly with these people at all. Let the dog warden handle it.

 

[ELSA711]

I never said the dog owners were not at fault, they 100% are at fault. I also believe that if you have animals like livestock and live in close proximity to dogs that you know run wild, protect them by putting up a fence and don't let them roam free without protection.
We have a crazy dog down the street. First thing we did when we moved in was put up a fence to protect us and our kids. If the dog gets through our fence, then it will meet my dog, who was trained for personal protection of my children.

 

[Hrhpd]

Agree about the dogs, but he keeps his chicken on his own property. There is NO fault on the part of the person who is on his own property.

That's like blaming someone that didn't have a fence for having a gas grill so irresistible to a neighbor that it got stolen. A fence may minimize the risk, but it's a risk that is 100% there because of someone else's negligence.

More like somebody that has an unfenced pool and the neighbor child drowns in it. The pool owner can be liable for an attractive nuisance. You have a cute, but aggressive dog on your own property, kept in with an invisible fence. A child wanders onto your property and gets bitten. The dog's owner can be liable. Hell, if you put up a Beware of Dog sign on your property and somebody gets bitten in your fenced backyard, you can be held liable because you posted you knew your dog was aggressive. There are many ways owners can be liable for somebody else's stupidity.

While the owner of the dog is absolutely at fault for leaving his dog run free, the OP was also shares in the responsibility for the chicken's death for leaving his chickens easy prey to any wandering predator.

 

[cabanafrau]

I never said the dog owners were not at fault, they 100% are at fault. I also believe that if you have animals like livestock and live in close proximity to dogs that you know run wild, protect them by putting up a fence and don't let them roam free without protection.
We have a crazy dog down the street. First thing we did when we moved in was put up a fence to protect us and our kids. If the dog gets through our fence, then it will meet my dog, who was trained for personal protection of my children.

What does "trained for personal protection of my children" mean?

I've never heard that said before and occupational hazard has my mind reeling at the implications.

 

[CPanther95]

More like somebody that has an unfenced pool and the neighbor child drowns in it. The pool owner can be liable for an attractive nuisance. You have a cute, but aggressive dog on your own property, kept in with an invisible fence. A child wanders onto your property and gets bitten. The dog's owner can be liable. Hell, if you put up a Beware of Dog sign on your property and somebody gets bitten in your fenced backyard, you can be held liable because you posted you knew your dog was aggressive. There are many ways owners can be liable for somebody else's stupidity.

While the owner of the dog is at fault for leaving his dog run free, the OP was also just as at fault for leaving his chickens easy prey to any wandering predator.

LOL.

You're the first person I've ever seen claim that chickens are an attractive nuisance.

What's next, lawn gnomes - pink flamingos? Since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess anything we own is fair game.

 

[Hrhpd]

LOL.

You're the first person I've ever seen claim that chickens are an attractive nuisance.

Not exactly, lol, that was only one example. Read the whole post. Although it probably was an attractive nuisance to the dog.

If the OP wants the chickens to roam free, perhaps he should be in the market for a Livestock Guardian dog such as a Maremma, Kuvasz or Anatolian.

 

[CPanther95]

Not exactly, that was only one example. Read the whole post. Although it probably was an attractive nuisance to the dog.

If the OP wants the chickens to roam free, perhaps he should be in the market for a Livestock Guardian dog such as a Maremma or Anatolian.

Perhaps the dog owner should look into a fence if his animals won't stay on his property.

We're looking at this this from the perspective of just 2 involved parties - but what if you extrapolate this to a small 75 home housing development? Would you really suggest that 74 homeowners should erect fences around their yards - or 74 guard dogs should be purchased just to address a single dog owner who refuses to keep his dog on his own property?

 

[Hrhpd]

Perhaps the dog owner should look into a fence if his animals won't stay on his property.

We're looking at this this from the perspective of just 2 involved parties - but what if you extrapolate this to a small 75 home housing development? Would you really suggest that 74 homeowners should erect fences around their yards - or 74 guard dogs should be purchased just to address a single dog owner who refuses to keep his dog on his own property?

I never said the dog owner was not at fault. I said the OP shared in the responsibility for the death of the chicken.

And yes, fences always make good neighbors. And again, a child being bitten is far different than a chicken, which is natural prey. A child is not natural prey. There is no comparison.

Friends of ours have a chicken farm. They keep a couple of Maremma/Pyr crosses on their farm to protect them from crazy neighbor's animals and also natural predators. It is being proactive, not reactive.

Other friends of ours breed and show Livestock Guardian Dogs. They just sold a puppy to a small family farm that needed protection due to a large coyote problem. The farm gets a lot of visitors so they needed something that would allow visitors, but also would take care of predators. It is one solution if you want to run livestock free in an area with predators and don't want to erect a huge fence.

 

[CPanther95]

And yes, fences always make good neighbors.

That's true, but suggesting that everyone 'else' needs to put up a fence or get a guard dog to protect themselves because you refuse to put up a fence of your own, you aren't being a good neighbor. You're being the kind of neighbor everyone around you wants to run out of town.

 

[Hrhpd]

That's true, but suggesting that everyone 'else' needs to put up a fence or get a guard dog to protect themselves because you refuse to put up a fence of your own, you aren't being a good neighbor. You're being the kind of neighbor everyone around you wants to run out of town.

Don't disagree.

But, you can't fix stupid. So, if you want to protect your livestock, you need to be proactive. The OP even acknowledges that she puts her chickens at risk from natural predators letting them free range without any supervision. Well, predators also include stupid neighbor's pets. What if it was the neighbor's cat that killed the chicken? Domesticated pets have prey drive just like natural predators.

Anyway, this is getting off topic. The OP wanted an apology. My first response was to agree with the poster that said that since the OP's husband went ballistic on the neighbor, I wouldn't be expecting an apology. The OP deserves one, but when you threaten somebody or their pet, you put the owner on the defensive and you can throw any apology out the window. Again, she deserves an apology, but I would not be holding my breath.