Why is everyone so upset?

[Pbxtech]

We did not even use all our FP+ everyday last week. It was our 1st time going for the switch between Halloween and Christmas. Walked on several rides without any waits.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm not sure how that's relevant. Demand determines price. Disney has experienced much greater demand than most other vacation destinations, thus they have been able to outpace inflation. Prices will continue to go up as long as people keep paying the higher prices. None of that has anything to do with Disney's desire to improve the experience for the majority of its guests. The majority are not RD commandos. I feel confident FP+ was not designed for the typical DISer. We are maybe a bit more "aggressive" in our touring, but those that are not truly get a huge benefit from the new system...and they are the majority.

It is relevant because it has direct bearing on the "getting less for more $$" angle that has many long-time guests frustrated. I'm not saying Disney shouldn't raise prices, but I do think it is a risky strategy to simultaneously raise prices, cut services, and make poorly publicized changes to popular programs.

Also, I think the notion that this is supposed to improve anyone's park experience is assuming facts not in evidence. I don't think we've seen anything from Disney that suggests such a thing. What we know is that it hits upon the psychology of consumer behaviour (consumers spend more using tap-to-pay methods than when they have to reach for their wallets) and takes data collection and crowd control to whole new levels. But I haven't seen anything that suggests that the goal of the system is to improve the park experience for any group - locals and non-planners lose because of the need to make ride reservations 60 days out, off-site guests lose because on-site guests consume the lion's share of headliner availability, frequent/experienced guests lose because they can no longer FP multiple headliners or the same ride multiple times in a day. Who do we really expect will see a better park experience because of the new system?

 

[lauradis]

I'm so sorry that Disney has made changes that make frequent guest not want to come to Disney that is just plain sad

I love Disney for the rides, shows, people watching, the more then happy workers, Disney does such a great job of "the happiest place on earth" cleaner then normal.

It's hard when they change thing be it the tiki room, fast passes, Main Street bakery, they have made so many changes over the years, some I like some I don't.

I just can't imagine not going every so often. I love Disney as the idea, as the place, and for some of the changes, but the love for Disney as a whole has always remaind we me for over omg almost 40 years.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

IMHO, the vast majority of people who are complaining have decided this new system is not for them without actually experiencing it.

 

[mefordis]

We did not even use all our FP+ everyday last week. It was our 1st time going for the switch between Halloween and Christmas. Walked on several rides without any waits.

Yep, this is the slow time that people are asking about. I was there, too. Right at Halloween, before Jersey Week starts. It used to be the month of October now it is this one week, tail end Oct first week of November.

Take note, everyone. Once word gets out this week will be mobbed as well.

 

[MABEE]

IMHO, the vast majority of people who are complaining have decided this new system is not for them without actually experiencing it.

I'm not one of those people-- I'm not happy about it, but I'm not cancelling my trip or anything. To be fair though, not everyone has several thousand dollars to risk on what might be a very disappointing family vacation. It makes perfect sense that some families would decide they should sit this one out and see what happens, spending their precious vacation dollars somewhere less in transition. People on here tend to know how they prefer to 'do the world' and if their preferred method (rides all day long or mostly big attractions) seems out of reach, why should they spend money to be less than satisfied? You don't have to actually experience something to know it isn't for you.

 

[Colleen27]

IMHO, the vast majority of people who are complaining have decided this new system is not for them without actually experiencing it.

To be fair the same is true of the vast majority of people defending it. Right now, most DISers haven't experienced it at all and those who have experienced a very different system than those of us traveling in the coming weeks and months will experience. A lot of the positive "just back" comments talk about double dipping, which is reportedly going away in the very near future, and the tiered change to Epcot's FP+ is recent enough that there really haven't been reports back about it one way or the other.

ETA: I am generally negative/skeptical about FP+ (not to be confused with MB as a whole - I think there's great potential there), but I'm reserving any final judgment until I experience it for myself. My holiday trip is carved in stone; it is my 5yo's "just me & mom" trip, and her older siblings have already had their turns so there's no backing out. So I'll experience the system then. How I feel about seeing it in action and what, if any, changes come along around the same time will determine whether or not the January kid-free trip with DH stands as planned, gets changed/postponed, or becomes a non-Disney trip to FL for spring training.

 

[Sheilby]

I was a 9 year old child when WDW was new, and my younger brothers were probably about 5 and 3. I remember them being quite intolerant in the hot twisting queues (no doubt I was myself) and my parents becoming pretty impatient and agitated. We were not the exception by any stretch of the imagination.

I think that the biggest difference in the halcyon days was that no one batted an eye when you beat your children into waiting happily.

I was reading the other posts and I had all sorts of comments to write, but then I read yours and you totally nailed it. Kids were not more patient 30 years ago, they were just afraid of ticking their parents off.

To the OP: When people compare going to Disney today with going in the past I know they are looking at it through the cloud of time. When my parents took us in 1982 they did not drop the kind of money we are dropping now even when you account for inflation. The amount of people who went to Disney was also A LOT smaller. Disney wasn't having specials luring people from other countries to show up in droves. They weren't having marathons and Food and Wine festivals which bring in massive amounts of people.

In order to go on our vacation this Wednesday my husband worked past midnight every night this week to finish up projects. He has two more days of work which will probably be 14-16 hour days. I assure you my father did not have to do that in order to take a week off. So yeah, if we are stuck waiting in long lines or our MB glitches and we have to waste time fixing it we will be pissed. We saved up years for this trip and we expect it to be magical. I'm looking forward to trying FP+ and I am not anticipating any problems, but I do not like how Disney is handling this roll out and I find it incredibly rude how they are making changes without proper announcements so that people can plan accordingly. I should know for sure 3 days before my vacation if I will still get a KTTW card and if it will pull regular fast passes and I should know for sure if FP+ gets me reserved seating at fantasmic. I think my 10 grand earned me the right to expect to know what I am getting on my vacation. Maybe you go all the time so seeing everything isn't as important to you, but this is only my family's second time.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Locals and non-planners lose because of the need to make ride reservations 60 days out, off-site guests lose because on-site guests consume the lion's share of headliner availability, frequent/experienced guests lose because they can no longer FP multiple headliners or the same ride multiple times in a day. Who do we really expect will see a better park experience because of the new system?

Onsite customers who weren't pulling more than 3 in a day anyway (first-timers, people who didn't make it to RD, etc)

 

[bcrook]

Onsite customers...but only the ones who weren't pulling more than 3 in a day anyway (first-timers, people who didn't make it to RD, etc)

I wonder if the perceived benefit will be offset be the online scramble for advanced ride reservations weeks in advance?

 

[mgrayar]

It is relevant because it has direct bearing on the "getting less for more $$" angle that has many long-time guests frustrated. I'm not saying Disney shouldn't raise prices, but I do think it is a risky strategy to simultaneously raise prices, cut services, and make poorly publicized changes to popular programs.

Also, I think the notion that this is supposed to improve anyone's park experience is assuming facts not in evidence. I don't think we've seen anything from Disney that suggests such a thing. What we know is that it hits upon the psychology of consumer behaviour (consumers spend more using tap-to-pay methods than when they have to reach for their wallets) and takes data collection and crowd control to whole new levels. But I haven't seen anything that suggests that the goal of the system is to improve the park experience for any group - locals and non-planners lose because of the need to make ride reservations 60 days out, off-site guests lose because on-site guests consume the lion's share of headliner availability, frequent/experienced guests lose because they can no longer FP multiple headliners or the same ride multiple times in a day. Who do we really expect will see a better park experience because of the new system?

That's a lot of speculation based on facts not in evidence as well. We don't know anything about future timetables. We don't know who will or won't have access. We don't know if services are less or more in the final concept.

Everyone is speculating. We only know what the test looks like, and even that has changed along the way.

I choose to speculate that the overwhelming majority will like the new system once it is finally ironed out. Others can speculate the reverse if they feel that way. Neither will change the outcome, and I'll make due with any changes.

 

[mikek]

That's a lot of speculation based on facts not in evidence as well. We don't know anything about future timetables. We don't know who will or won't have access. We don't know if services are less or more in the final concept.

Everyone is speculating. We only know what the test looks like, and even that has changed along the way.

I choose to speculate that the overwhelming majority will like the new system once it is finally ironed out. Others can speculate the reverse if they feel that way. Neither will change the outcome, and I'll make due with any changes.

I'd agree 100%.

I just happen to be more pessimistic because i see the mess (in my mind) that they have made of table service dining. I just honestly think there's no reason I should have to be bothered to figure out where i want to eat 6+months in advance in order to be assured of being able to sit down to something besides pizza planet or cosmic rays. I remember that we used to complain that you had to know what you wanted to eat for dinner before (GASP) lunch so that you could talk to one of the video heads at the EPCOT KIOSKS to make dinner reservations. Now I have to figure it out about hundreds of times sooner.

I think they can sure make FP+ work and work great. But I don't TRUST that they will based on the past choices they have made with dining. It seems they have chosen to maximize their 'efficiency' at the expense of customer experience.

I have a trip in the short term (our magic bands are ordered and awaiting shipment) and honestly I think since i happen to hang out here that i will do better than the average bear as I've basically got more information than the CM's generally do.

And longer term I'm reserving judgement becasue, as i said above, I DO think they can make this into something great. Also, we are lucky enough to have been many times and will (knock on wood) go many more in the future so we're more about just doing whatever we can get done and enjoy that. So i don't think it's all doom and gloom for us even if they fubar it like ADR's.

But i do understand the angst and negative assumptions that some are jumping to.

 

[DebbieB]

I arrived at WDW today. Got to Boardwalk around 1:30, had some issues activating my AP at the International Gateway, cm kept saying AP's were not supposed to be on magic bands. She got it to work but could not give me the plastic AP card. I said I need that to get discounts. So I then I had to go to guest relations to get the AP card, the cm there said the same thing, AP's aren't supposed to be on magic bands but he gave me the AP card.

Other than that, it worked great. I had Test Track for 5:15, Soarin for 6:55 and Malestrom for 8:00. Since I only entered Epcot at 2:30, I would never have got fastpasses for those under the old system. Park was very crowded, standby was long. I think Test Track was 130 minutes when I walked up.

 

[Colleen27]

Onsite customers who weren't pulling more than 3 in a day anyway (first-timers, people who didn't make it to RD, etc)

Do you think that's really a sizable group, though? Onsite guests informed enough to make ride reservations a couple months in advance but who weren't well informed enough to utilize the original FP system?

 

[Colleen27]

That's a lot of speculation based on facts not in evidence as well. We don't know anything about future timetables. We don't know who will or won't have access. We don't know if services are less or more in the final concept.

Everyone is speculating. We only know what the test looks like, and even that has changed along the way.

I choose to speculate that the overwhelming majority will like the new system once it is finally ironed out. Others can speculate the reverse if they feel that way. Neither will change the outcome, and I'll make due with any changes.

True, but we do have some basic facts on that count. Ride capacity, for example. Park attendance. Operating hours. Number of on-site rooms. The math adds up to a system that will need the tier restrictions that are currently being tested at Epcot, because there simply is not enough headliner capacity to allow even every on-site guest to pull 3 headliner FP+ times each day.

From what I've read, Soarin' can handle about 25K guests per day. Test Track about 19K. Epcot's annual attendance figure works out to more than 30K guests per day (though obviously they aren't evenly distributed). There is no way that math adds up to guests being able to reserve FP+ for both. There will have to be some restriction - what those restrictions will be in the final incarnation of FP+ is entirely speculation, but I don't think there's any question at all that there will in fact have to be some restrictions.

 

[weedles]

I'm trying to wrap my head around all the negativity when dealing with the new FP system. I remember the day of "E" tickets and no fast past. When vacation at any Disney outlet was relaxing and enjoyable. When folks didn't tour down to the last minute and kids and adults alike had a great time. What happened? Has life became so hectic that we can no longer wait in line like we use to? If you ask me...it's sad that we can't slow down and enjoy what is an awesome time. The time when Walt had a vision.

Yes, I understand that time is precious and kids (and adults) are spoiled. Is the time to stand inline and talk to others gone? Has Disney spoiled it or have we?

I refuse to go all out all day long. I refuse to worry about FP, whether it be + or -. I refuse to not enjoy something that makes me happy.

Teach yourself and your kids to slow down and enjoy the time together. Life is too short to worry about anything else....imho.

Just wanted to say loved your post and couldnt agree more

 

[DPCummerbund]

When I saw this video, I was immediately reminded of this forum.

"But I don't wanna get my fastpases onliiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnne....."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlO0ddEeo5Q

 

[bcrook]

When I saw this video, I was immediately reminded of this forum.

"But I don't wanna get my fastpases onliiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnne....."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlO0ddEeo5Q

Well to be fair and play along with your metaphor...St. George and Mt. Zion national park would be a great destination. When you consider all the extra hassle of getting to Disneyland, staying put in St. George sounds pretty good to that boy.

But, you are probably correct, just like Disney ... Those parents didn't think that through very well, and now they have disappointed kids.

 

[mom2rtk]

Onsite customers who weren't pulling more than 3 in a day anyway (first-timers, people who didn't make it to RD, etc)

That's a good starting point.

But be sure to subtract out the number of those who don't like to commit ahead of time which park they will be in on a given day, and those who want flexibility in a given park on a given day (like people with small kids with unpredictable schedules).

 

[mom2rtk]

I arrived at WDW today. Got to Boardwalk around 1:30, had some issues activating my AP at the International Gateway, cm kept saying AP's were not supposed to be on magic bands. She got it to work but could not give me the plastic AP card. I said I need that to get discounts. So I then I had to go to guest relations to get the AP card, the cm there said the same thing, AP's aren't supposed to be on magic bands but he gave me the AP card.

Other than that, it worked great. I had Test Track for 5:15, Soarin for 6:55 and Malestrom for 8:00. Since I only entered Epcot at 2:30, I would never have got fastpasses for those under the old system. Park was very crowded, standby was long. I think Test Track was 130 minutes when I walked up.

........nor would you get to ride all of those if you were scheduling FP+ today (since Epcot is now tiered).