Who is wearing hoodies today in support of Trayvon Martin?

I have to ask all the "defenders" of Zimmerman.

Don't you really believe that this unnecessary tragedy could have been avoided if Mr. Zimmerman didn't choose to "play detective" by following Trayvon just on a "suspicion"? For goodness sake I've never heard of
any neighborhood watch people carrying guns!

This. :thumbsup2

And is anyone else upset like I am with the new headline alluding Trayvon was the instigator instead of Zimmerman? Zimmerman was the one who confronted him in the first place. This tragedy really shows that it's the dumb 911 calls in our society that hurts everyone.
 
I'm going to try and make this my last post on this topic. From what I have seen, the involvement of Sharpton and (from afar) Jackson has been anything but helpful. Sharpton in particular has been responsible for spreading some of the early myths surrounding the case that threw a lot of gas on the fire nationally. For example, the notion that the police returned the gun to Zimmerman and did "slipshod" police work. Add to that Jackson's attempts to directly paint the death of Trayvon Martin as a prime example of how in America "Targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business." If that isn't "race baiting", I don't know what is.

As for the Martin family... I cannot begin to imagine losing a child, in essence, over "nothing". But I think that the root of this escalation may be one of expectations. Martin was killed on February 26th. Eleven days later his family held their first press conference demanding the arrest of Zimmerman. This was five days BEFORE the SPD announced they had completed their initial investigation. They didn't find clear evidence to file charges against Zimmerman, and referred the matter to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger for a determination of whether or not to prosecute the shooter. Seven days later, Wolfinger announced that a grand jury would hear the case and the Florida Governor announced that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement would assist local authorities in their investigation.

While all of this was happening. The Martin family, and their supporters kept ratcheting up the pressure on the officials. Notice that there is no evidence in the Orlando Sentinel's rather detailed timeline of stories that ever indicates that case was ever considered "closed" against Zimmerman. However at this point in time the outside pressure had started to take it's toll on the case. The SPD police chief stepped aside, followed by an announcement that a Special Prosecutor would take the case and Wolfinger was swept aside.

Meanwhile, the narrative that was playing over the airwaves and on the Internet, fueled by the lawyers of the Martin's and their supporters, was that there was no real investigation, the gun had been given back to Zimmerman, and that the investigation had been stopped by the prosecutor (a friend of Zimmerman's father). One of the family lawyers, with Trayvon's mother at his side, on CNN went so far to say that the SPD was part of a "conspiracy" in the case.

Back to expectations, and the notion that the Martin family "wasn't getting anywhere" with the SPD. Right off the start, the family was demanding that Zimmerman be arrested even before the initial investigation was completed. Unfortunately, due to things like Constitutional Law, you cannot just "arrest" someone and charge them until you've ascertained that a crime has taken place and built some semblance of a case against the person you wish to arrest. It's not standard procedure to arrest and try someone on a hunch or a feeling that they're lying to you. Given the family's early demands, it's not hard to see why there might not have been a good relationship between the two groups.

Additionally, if you listen to people familiar with the criminal process, you'll learn in cases where things are not clear cut, that it can take weeks or even a couple of months (or more) before a decision is reached to formally charge a suspect with a crime and begin to prosecute them. It seems pretty clear from press reports that the SPD initially found they couldn't conclusively debunk Zimmerman's self-defense claim and where themselves suspect of it. Therefore it was turned over to the state office for additional investigation and for a final determination for, or against, prosecution. It was that process that was underway, along with an announcement of a grand jury, when the media circus interrupted things. Ultimately, I think what's largely driving this is that the Martin family wants this case prosecuted on their timeline, instead of the normal arc.

I had to laugh on the way home today when I heard a minister who was a supporter of the Martin family on the radio sum things up by saying (paraphrased) "All Trayvon's family wants is Peace, Justice, due process, and the arrest of George Zimmerman." The good minister has no idea of the oxymoron comprised by those last two points!

And on that point, the latest dispatch from Al Sharpton has declared that unless they hurry up and arrest Zimmerman, "civil disobedience will escalate if Zimmerman remains free."

And so it goes...

I agree with things in your post (particularly about patience) BUT I do want to add that the Martin’s felt like the Police had already decided that Zimmerman was right (Particularly when they didn’t check Trayvon’s phone (the father did and told the police Trayvon was on the phone), not releasing Trayvon’s body from the morgue sooner/john doe thing, and not talking to witnesses (who told the Martin’s that the Police didn’t follow up with them). The Martin’s felt very early that the police were not on their side. In a nut shell, The Martin's might feel that everyday Zimmerman walks free it validates the belief that somehow Trayvon is responsible for his own death. Last thing, the Martin's feels there is MUCH probable cause for an arrest. Whether or not Z is guilty might be something totally different - and for a court of law to decide. Many people are arrested, charged and released on bail - THEN the case against them is either built or the case is dropped.
 
I have to ask all the "defenders" of Zimmerman.

Don't you really believe that this unnecessary tragedy could have been avoided if Mr. Zimmerman didn't choose to "play detective" by following Trayvon just on a "suspicion"? For goodness sake I've never heard of
any neighborhood watch people carrying guns!

Also could have been avoided if Martin would not have been kicked out of school for having drugs.
 
Also could have been avoided if Martin would not have been kicked out of school for having drugs.

WTH does that have to do with anything???

He was walking home with some tea and skittles, not offering a doobie to a five year old.
 


Zimmerman wouldn't have been there if he had anything better to do than live out his mall cop fantasy trolling the streets for "suspicious" people.

What happened before that night has nothing to do with what happened that night, and that's what's at issue.
 


zimmerman wouldn't have been there if he had anything better to do than live out his mall cop fantasy trolling the streets for "suspicious" people.

What happened before that night has nothing to do with what happened that night, and that's what's at issue.

exactly!
 
Also could have been avoided if Martin would not have been kicked out of school for having drugs.

Wow...do you really believe this? This is pretty harsh..like very harsh.

I was a hormonal nightmare when I was in middle school. Was suspended 3 times (talking back). I'm glad I was never shot in my chest for my transgressions!

I just don't understand people sometimes. This was a young man, not some demented criminal. :sad2:
 
So this turned quickly into Trayvon Martin thread #2, even though the question was about wearing hoodies in support of a cause.

I think the cause isn't just about Trayvon, but about the idea that Geraldo Rivera brings up that somehow wearing a hoodie = thuggish behavior.

As for the case. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, there's no question about that. Unlike a lot of homocide cases where there's questions about who did the shooting, we KNOW who did the shooting.

Therefore I don't know why it would be difficult to get Zimmerman to go to trial for these actions or at least CHARGED with something until all of the facts come out via trial.
 
NBC called out for using edited version of 911 call which emphasized.....wait for it.....race as a factor.

But no worries, NBC will investigate..... NBC. :rolleyes1

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.c...ternal-investigation-over-trayvon-martin-case

Interesting. I have seen some reports that criticize anyone for mentioning race when reporting a crime, but how would someone give an accurate description if they don't mention race?:confused3 Like it or not, it is a big part of who we are. We can go and change clothes or cut our hair, but it is much harder to change the color of our skin. Even the 911 operator asked about race.

I don't blame Trayvon for what happened. Zimmerman made a mistake in following him and/or not identifying himself to Trayvon. Just a friendly "Neighborhood Watch here. I don't recognize you from the neighborhood. Can you tell me where you're headed?" would have probably caused some irritation, but I doubt it would have ended up in someone dead. He was also wrong to be carrying a firearm.

However, whether Trayvon then turned on Zimmerman and was beating on him makes a difference for what Zimmerman should be charged with. If Trayvon was beating on him, it changes things somewhat in my eyes, maybe murder vs. manslaughter.
 
I agree with things in your post (particularly about patience) BUT I do want to add that the Martin’s felt like the Police had already decided that Zimmerman was right (Particularly when they didn’t check Trayvon’s phone (the father did and told the police Trayvon was on the phone), not releasing Trayvon’s body from the morgue sooner/john doe thing, and not talking to witnesses (who told the Martin’s that the Police didn’t follow up with them). The Martin’s felt very early that the police were not on their side. In a nut shell, The Martin's might feel that everyday Zimmerman walks free it validates the belief that somehow Trayvon is responsible for his own death.
I really do wish that Martin's family receives "justice" in this case, but the problem is that they aren't the only party in this case. I equally hope Zimmerman receives "justice" too. By justice, I mean that due process works in the prescribed manner to render a fair outcome. The problem is that some want the Martin family's need for justice to trump Zimmerman's. It's unfortunate that the Martin family "feels" that the police "are not on their side", but given the reports that the SPD doubt Zimmerman's claims but couldn't debunk them would seem to point to the fact that perhaps perception doesn't equal reality. Police departments don't treat possible victim's families as partners in investigations and aren't in the habit of sharing all of the evidence with them. To the family, it might seem that the police are "hiding" things or stonewalling them.

As for any feelings that "everyday Zimmerman walks free it validates the belief that somehow Trayvon is responsible for his own death", well, again should the family's emotional need to be relieved of this burden supersede Zimmerman's basic legal rights? The grand jury process is used for a lot of murder cases with the accused not arrested beforehand... does that mean that in these cases the legal system is trying to blame those victims too?

Many people are arrested, charged and released on bail - THEN the case against them is either built or the case is dropped.
Do you realize how many police departments would be sued for false arrest if they actually arrested people and THEN tried to build a case to support the probable cause after the fact? What you are describing is the building of the case beyond the minimum threshold to make a determination of probable cause. Now, in the Court of the Internet, probable cause in this case may seem like a "slam dunk", but in reality it often isn't that simple.
 
Wow...do you really believe this? This is pretty harsh..like very harsh.

I was a hormonal nightmare when I was in middle school. Was suspended 3 times (talking back). I'm glad I was never shot in my chest for my transgressions!

I just don't understand people sometimes. This was a young man, not some demented criminal. :sad2:

He also believes and stated in the other thread that there are more black men in prison than in college.

See what I mean?

Ig time!!!!!
 
So this turned quickly into Trayvon Martin thread #2, even though the question was about wearing hoodies in support of a cause.

I think the cause isn't just about Trayvon, but about the idea that Geraldo Rivera brings up that somehow wearing a hoodie = thuggish behavior.

As for the case. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, there's no question about that. Unlike a lot of homocide cases where there's questions about who did the shooting, we KNOW who did the shooting.

Therefore I don't know why it would be difficult to get Zimmerman to go to trial for these actions or at least CHARGED with something until all of the facts come out via trial.

Well, there's this little thing called "Innocent until PROVEN Guilty."
 
I'm going to try and make this my last post on this topic. From what I have seen, the involvement of Sharpton and (from afar) Jackson has been anything but helpful. Sharpton in particular has been responsible for spreading some of the early myths surrounding the case that threw a lot of gas on the fire nationally. For example, the notion that the police returned the gun to Zimmerman and did "slipshod" police work. Add to that Jackson's attempts to directly paint the death of Trayvon Martin as a prime example of how in America "Targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business." If that isn't "race baiting", I don't know what is.

As for the Martin family... I cannot begin to imagine losing a child, in essence, over "nothing". But I think that the root of this escalation may be one of expectations. Martin was killed on February 26th. Eleven days later his family held their first press conference demanding the arrest of Zimmerman. This was five days BEFORE the SPD announced they had completed their initial investigation. They didn't find clear evidence to file charges against Zimmerman, and referred the matter to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger for a determination of whether or not to prosecute the shooter. Seven days later, Wolfinger announced that a grand jury would hear the case and the Florida Governor announced that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement would assist local authorities in their investigation.

While all of this was happening. The Martin family, and their supporters kept ratcheting up the pressure on the officials. Notice that there is no evidence in the Orlando Sentinel's rather detailed timeline of stories that ever indicates that case was ever considered "closed" against Zimmerman. However at this point in time the outside pressure had started to take it's toll on the case. The SPD police chief stepped aside, followed by an announcement that a Special Prosecutor would take the case and Wolfinger was swept aside.

Meanwhile, the narrative that was playing over the airwaves and on the Internet, fueled by the lawyers of the Martin's and their supporters, was that there was no real investigation, the gun had been given back to Zimmerman, and that the investigation had been stopped by the prosecutor (a friend of Zimmerman's father). One of the family lawyers, with Trayvon's mother at his side, on CNN went so far to say that the SPD was part of a "conspiracy" in the case.

Back to expectations, and the notion that the Martin family "wasn't getting anywhere" with the SPD. Right off the start, the family was demanding that Zimmerman be arrested even before the initial investigation was completed. Unfortunately, due to things like Constitutional Law, you cannot just "arrest" someone and charge them until you've ascertained that a crime has taken place and built some semblance of a case against the person you wish to arrest. It's not standard procedure to arrest and try someone on a hunch or a feeling that they're lying to you. Given the family's early demands, it's not hard to see why there might not have been a good relationship between the two groups.

Additionally, if you listen to people familiar with the criminal process, you'll learn in cases where things are not clear cut, that it can take weeks or even a couple of months (or more) before a decision is reached to formally charge a suspect with a crime and begin to prosecute them. It seems pretty clear from press reports that the SPD initially found they couldn't conclusively debunk Zimmerman's self-defense claim and where themselves suspect of it. Therefore it was turned over to the state office for additional investigation and for a final determination for, or against, prosecution. It was that process that was underway, along with an announcement of a grand jury, when the media circus interrupted things. Ultimately, I think what's largely driving this is that the Martin family wants this case prosecuted on their timeline, instead of the normal arc.

I had to laugh on the way home today when I heard a minister who was a supporter of the Martin family on the radio sum things up by saying (paraphrased) "All Trayvon's family wants is Peace, Justice, due process, and the arrest of George Zimmerman." The good minister has no idea of the oxymoron comprised by those last two points!

And on that point, the latest dispatch from Al Sharpton has declared that unless they hurry up and arrest Zimmerman, "civil disobedience will escalate if Zimmerman remains free."

And so it goes...

:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship:
 
Well, there's this little thing called "Innocent until PROVEN Guilty."

That applies to trial, not charging people with crimes or arresting. No one would ever be charged if we waited until they were proven guilty to arrest or charge them.

Zimmerman apparently would have been held and charged had not the state atty showed up at the scene and subsequently apparently overrode the homicide investigator and ordered what seems a rather capricious release.
 
For me, the outrage comes from this man being protected by the stand your ground law. The idea that an armed person can kill someone and be protected from prosecution by such a law is frightening.

Zimmerman is claiming the stand your ground law as protection, but that doesn't mean the law is protecting him. From my understanding, if he goes to court with this law as his defense he will lose. He doesn't meet the requirements for the stand your ground law.
 

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