When you don't get along with your mother

[RyMacJ]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful and kind advice. I think I have known the writing was on the wall for years...but it takes a lot to actually act on things, especially with your own mom, you know?

I am not going to have a sit down with her. It will not go well, even if it were just a phone conversation. The next time I will see her will be at my daughter's pre-school graduation this Sunday. I will play that by ear. If she plays nice, fine. If she starts in with the drama and guilt trips and passive aggessive blame game, I will simply tell her that these things have to stop or she will not see me anymore, and I will walk away. That is the plan right now, anyway.

One thing I haven't really thought about is how it will affect my girls as they get older. They are only 4 and 6 right now, but I can see how in the future she will treat them the same way she has treated me. I think about it now and there have already been little things. Like, "don't you love me more than (other grandmother)" "aren't I your favorite" and then the pouty lip and fake boo hooing if they don't respond in the way she wants. It's only happened a couple of times, but I can see that leading down the exact same path, and that will NOT be happening anymore. If there is anything I will not roll over and let her do, it is treat my kids like that.

Hugs to all of you who are going or have gone through similar situations. It is hard when it is your family. I have stopped talking to other family...such as a cousin who is 26 and on her fourth child with a fourth man and just acts like trash and her poor kids see and hear I don't know what. I don't speak or communicate at all with her, and it was hard, because I feel sorry for her children. But I don't want her around MY children, and they come first. So, I'm not one of those who thinks family sticks together through thick and thin. Yes, if you have a great relationship with your family, absolutely. But you do not get to choose your family, and I'm not all about having people in my life that I would not surround myself with if they were not flesh and blood. It's harder when it's your mom, or both parents (my father is no saint himself, but he is not nearly as bad as she is), but I will have to suck it up and do what is best for myself, my DH, and our children.

Cross your fingers for me on Sunday!

 

[minkydog]

The mother-daughter relationship is so heavy with so many different & varied layers.

And we are all giving advice based on our own relationships & history w/ our mothers.

My relationship w/ my mother, admittedly, is not the best, although my mother actually has no clue & probably thinks we're fine & dandy. I spent most of this past Mother's Day w/ my mother, the day was not a very good day for me. Later that evening, I was reading some blog post about mothers & daughters, & something the blogger wrote just hit me square in the heart like things sometimes do. And I realized, I have some deep-seated anger & bitterness towards my mother. And, the funny thing is, the older I get, the harder it is for me to keep those feelings squashed down. I will never say anything to my mother or have any kind of "talk" w/ her because she is older & is more mentally & emotionally & physically fragile now & just can't handle things very well any more. And I do love her. However, Mother's Day evening, I started crying & finally said out loud (even if only I was the only one who could hear me), "I am angry at my mom." And I know, for my peace of mind & sanity, I need to forgive & just let it go.

Anyway, I said all that to say, I think we daughters will always have a space in our heart for our "idea" of how our mothers should be or how we want them to be. No matter what kind of person our mothers are or aren't, there will always be a tie that connects a mother to a daughter.

And it is hard to let go of how we wish the relationship would be. I would say there's even mourning or grieving when we let go of the "ideal" & move on w/ the reality.

When you live close to family, it's hard to just suddenly break off contact. There are holidays & birthdays & graduations & all kinds of other family get-togethers. Plus, there are your own children & their relationships w/ their grandparents & other family members. Bottom line, you really can't end contact.

However, you can change your reaction to your mother. (And I'm preaching to myself here too! ) I think you have to let go of the idealized version in your head of how you'd like your mother/daughter relationship to be & just start relating to your mother as one adult to another.

You set up boundaries for yourself & your kids - you don't even have to tell your mother what those boundaries are. The important thing is you know what your boundaries are. Your mother can guilt-trip you - but, as long as you know you're treating her fairly & kindly, you don't let the guilt affect you. You can't control her actions & words. But you can control your actions & words.

I think you have to get to a place where you're okay w/ your mom being all "woe is me" & "I'm disappointed in you" - because you know you're okay & that it's your mother's problem & not yours, if that make sense. You "tune out" the drama. You change the subject. You laugh lightly. You say, "You're wrong, but we can agree to disagree." You don't engage.

^^^Spot on, sister! Can we agree to nominate Wendy for Best EVAH Post on the DIS? This post gets a gold star.

 

[sonnyjane]

One thing I haven't really thought about is how it will affect my girls as they get older. They are only 4 and 6 right now, but I can see how in the future she will treat them the same way she has treated me. I think about it now and there have already been little things. Like, "don't you love me more than (other grandmother)" "aren't I your favorite" and then the pouty lip and fake boo hooing if they don't respond in the way she wants. It's only happened a couple of times, but I can see that leading down the exact same path, and that will NOT be happening anymore. If there is anything I will not roll over and let her do, it is treat my kids like that.

Blech. Such manipulation. Good luck.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You need to establish healthy boundaries. I have had to do this. It is very relieving. I get along with my mom when she doesn't cross them. When she does, I (figuratively) walk it right back on her side of the boundary.

I recommend this book to help you.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0310247454?pc_redir=1399988725&robot_redir=1

ETA: you define the boundaries for yourself. You don't necessarily have to share them. But the idea is for you the confident that you can set those boundaries.

So, I'm not really sure how to ask this question, but I need advice. I can't go to my friends, who have been my friends since I was in elementary school, and are used to my mom's craziness and just say to brush it off and walk away because there is nothing I can do. I can't take it to my DH because he gets MAD and things between he and my mother are already awful because of her ruining our WDW trip last year (long story). I try to keep the peace between them if at all possible. My dad and my mom pretty much hate each other, but are still married. Why, I'll never know. But anyway, if I try and talk to him, he just starts in on why HE can't stand to be around her.

My mother and I have never gotten along very well. She always yelled a lot, and she and my dad were constantly putting me in the middle of their arguments growing up (I'm an only child). Things got a bit better when I moved out, but she's still always tried to insert herself in every part of my life and boss me around. I try and get across that I am an adult without being mean or ugly, because I mean, she's my MOM and I do love her, but when does it end?

This morning we were on the phone and she asked me a very personal question, to which I responded that it was none of her business. I didn't use an ugly tone or speak sharply, I just stated it matter of factly. She then told me that anything I do is her business. I said, actually it's not. She said, actually it is, because you're my daughter. I AM THIRTY-ONE YEARS OLD! No, nothing I do is any of her business, just because she is my mother. I did not choose my mother.

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Obviously I know to just walk away from conversations like that, and this morning I just hung up the phone. But this is CONSTANT. When I don't react the way she wants me to she tries to guilt trip me and act all woe is me nobody loves me you only love your father blah blah blah blah blah.

I just don't know if it is possible to maintain a relationship with my mother anymore. I do love her, but I don't think the amount of stress I'm under when I'm around her is healthy. My kids love her, and I would hate to take her away from them. So what do I do? How do I even break off a relationship with her when she lives in the same town and we would be at many of the same family functions? Not go see my family? (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc). If I tried to make a break from her, and then showed up at a birthday party or something and she was there, she would likely cause a scene and ruin the event, and I would hate for that to happen.

Where do I draw the line?

 

[ebtbmom]

I don't have any advice that's not already been given, just wanted to offer extra support.

I don't know about you guys, but Mother's Day was hard for me. My newsfeed was filled with lovey dovey sentiments to moms and I just couldn't feel it. I didn't want to post what I was actually feeling so I didn't post anything and it probably hurt her feelings, which of course made me feel guilty.

Glad I'm not the only one with mom issues. I just hope I'm able to learn from her and not alienate my son.

 

[barkley]

we had/have some toxic family members. what it finally came down to for me was my relationship with my children.

I firmly believe that children learn what they live, by what is modeled by their parents. I asked myself if I wanted to model obviously unhealthy (to me/dh) relationships for my kids and teach them that this was the way a parent/child, sibling/sibling....relationship should operate. that blood ties trump horrendous treatment that wouldn't be tolerated for one minute from a non family member.

for me the answer was/is 'no'. I've had to totally sever relationships, and in recent years as my dd has gotten older she's shared that while we thought she wasn't aware of some of the things going on (bad treatment hidden from sight of kids), she was-even if she just sensed it. she's shared that she appreciates that certain family members are no longer around to cause stress, anger and despair.

often times when people are treating me in a manner I'm not comfortable with I take a step back and ask myself if I would be comfortable if one of my children (as an adult) was in a similar relationship being treated in the same manner. it puts it into perspective.

 

[MamaLema]

So, I'm not really sure how to ask this question, but I need advice. I can't go to my friends, who have been my friends since I was in elementary school, and are used to my mom's craziness and just say to brush it off and walk away because there is nothing I can do. I can't take it to my DH because he gets MAD and things between he and my mother are already awful because of her ruining our WDW trip last year (long story). I try to keep the peace between them if at all possible. My dad and my mom pretty much hate each other, but are still married. Why, I'll never know. But anyway, if I try and talk to him, he just starts in on why HE can't stand to be around her.

My mother and I have never gotten along very well. She always yelled a lot, and she and my dad were constantly putting me in the middle of their arguments growing up (I'm an only child). Things got a bit better when I moved out, but she's still always tried to insert herself in every part of my life and boss me around. I try and get across that I am an adult without being mean or ugly, because I mean, she's my MOM and I do love her, but when does it end?

This morning we were on the phone and she asked me a very personal question, to which I responded that it was none of her business. I didn't use an ugly tone or speak sharply, I just stated it matter of factly. She then told me that anything I do is her business. I said, actually it's not. She said, actually it is, because you're my daughter. I AM THIRTY-ONE YEARS OLD! No, nothing I do is any of her business, just because she is my mother. I did not choose my mother.

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Obviously I know to just walk away from conversations like that, and this morning I just hung up the phone. But this is CONSTANT. When I don't react the way she wants me to she tries to guilt trip me and act all woe is me nobody loves me you only love your father blah blah blah blah blah.

I just don't know if it is possible to maintain a relationship with my mother anymore. I do love her, but I don't think the amount of stress I'm under when I'm around her is healthy. My kids love her, and I would hate to take her away from them. So what do I do? How do I even break off a relationship with her when she lives in the same town and we would be at many of the same family functions? Not go see my family? (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc). If I tried to make a break from her, and then showed up at a birthday party or something and she was there, she would likely cause a scene and ruin the event, and I would hate for that to happen.

Where do I draw the line?

I had to read this post twice just to make sure I didn't write it myself. This is the story of my life, except I don't have a father.

The things my mom has done to me are so crazy, only DH knows about them because I don't think anyone else would believe it. DH is the only one besides me that TRULY knows my mother and what she can do.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Plenty of good advice here.

Bottom line, you set your boundaries with her. One of the things you do with boundary setting is not to share personal info. Be evasive. This will work up your chops with harder stuff down the road. You have to get your feet wet so to speak.

If she pushes you say things like, not sure what we are going to do, not sure how I am going to do that, we have not decided on _____.

Now the manipulative things she says are easier to handle that you think. When she starts boo hooing, you say...."sorry you feel that way". Lather, rinse, repeat, no matter what baloney she lobs at you.

Bottom line it is you who has to make the changes in the relationship. It can be done. She won't like it, but eventually she will get used to it.

As far as the kids, that is a harder one. Unless she is being mean to them, I would probably just sit on that until you get a handle on what you are doing first.

 

[usd2bmd]

I totally agree with everyone who says that you need to set boundaries and enforce them. All the time you need to enforce them.

I also know that you said your kids love her...but trust me they sense something isn't right. They probably don't know exactly but they can see the change in your mood or demeanor when dealing with your mom. Plus my experience is (with my MIL) that this type of person is going to tell their story to anyone who will listen in an attempt to get sympathy or their way. This means that eventually IMO she will begin to try and get your kids to sympathize with her.

We go through this with my MIL. She has mental issues (diagnosed) that she chooses not to treat for which makes things difficult for all of us and my in-laws argue constantly when we are there. My daughter is now 18 and we all limit our exposure.

I am sorry that you're going through this but I hope that you are able to find peace.

 

[Cantw8]

You ask: "Where do I draw the line?"
Me... Personally????
I would have drawn a huge and permanent line by now.
This is toxic... It is not healthy... Your husband can't seem to be able to deal with her.

You SAY your kids love her...
I am really, truly, VERY STRONGLY, questioning that.
They are kids.
They know that they are expected (DEMANDED) to love her.
They are, and/or, will experience the same toxic issues, control, emotional blackmail, etc.... that you have ALWAYS experienced. There is simply no doubt about that whatsoever.

Again, they are kids...
You are the adult, the parent, who knows what is best.

Sorry! This might not be what you want to hear....
I know it's hard.

Who are you to "question" what the OP says about how her children feel? I think she probably knows her own children better than you do. What a pompous statement OP, sometimes you just have to walk away. There's a quote I heard once that really helps me sometimes..."Be with those that bring out the best in you, not the stress in you"

 

[MomRN]

OP- I have been estranged from my mother for years. We live in the same town also. We don't have many family functions that occur regularly. Mostly just funerals and weddings. The last wedding she didn't attend. The last funeral I was 2 feet away from her and she didn't recognize me and/or notice me (drugs will get you like that). She has seen my 7 year old son just a handful of times, never for a long period of time, and has never cared for him.

Can you believe after a years of avoiding her phone calls she came to my house last weekend to ask if she could borrow fifty dollars? Finally, instead of being passive aggressive and avoiding the situation I dealt with it head on. I told her I was done, that she made me anxious and being around her wasn't good for me.

However, if it were me, in your situation, only from what I've read on here, I would start limiting my time with her. Know when to walk away. Caller ID is great. I don't know if I would cut off communication with her completely at this point. It took years before I got to that point with my own mother. Good luck to you.

 

[lisaviolet]

I'm so very sorry that you're going through all this, OP. You can tell that you have a lovely heart, wanting your children to not lose a relationship that is probably different from yours with your mother.

It would take a lot for me ever to walk away from family. It's essential to me to have that bond and level of respect for what it is for me ( I fully understand everyone has their own choice and circumstances in life, that is just mine. so please don't take that out of context.)But that doesn't mean no boundaries, as they are important in life. For you, for your family - your loved ones and for your mother. For a more peaceful relationship.

I find not getting in extended conversations about the issue helps me when there seems to be a block and ongoing chatter. Simple words repeated. "This is not okay with me" is one I find useful for situations like this and don't engage too much.

You: (whatever you need to say) and then "this is not okay with me".

Her: blah, blah, blah.

You: This is not okay with me, Mom.


Not engaging new parts of conversation really does help. I worked in a very tough high school for years and this always stopped the drama and got to the point quickly. No she's not a teenager but we all know some adults are not really adults. A lot of us. Normally people can have intense conversations and discuss. She has shown you, she can not. So go with simple. Or try the email as someone else suggested. I had a friend whose mother never took in a word verbally over the same issue and then a heartfelt letter was sent - well she *heard* the issue clearly. I guess she had the emotional space and no need to instantly defend/argue. Everyone is different so it might be worth a try.

Also, it helps me to try to remember that everyone is on their own path in life. And to get the heck off theirs and back on mine.

All the best to your entire family.

 

[Princess_Nikki]

OP, I swear you just described my relationship with my Mom, too.

I moved to sunny Florida, seven states away from her. I would move farther if I didn't love Florida so much. I have no desire to ever go back to my home state, so I invite her to visit once a year or when she can, and that works for us. When she tries to be confrontational or nasty, I quickly shut her down. I don't allow her to spend time with my kids alone. The problem I worry about is how much she runs her mouth saying nasty things about everything and everyone.

OP, that would be what I worry about in your situation, too. My Mom bashed my Dad around me and all out other families, too. If she says things like that around her daughter, she would likely say horrible things around her grandchildren.

I once heard, you can't waste time wishing for the parents you want to have. Accept them for who they are, but create healthy boundaries for your own sake. Blood is not thicker than water in my world.

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful and kind advice. I think I have known the writing was on the wall for years...but it takes a lot to actually act on things, especially with your own mom, you know?

I am not going to have a sit down with her. It will not go well, even if it were just a phone conversation. The next time I will see her will be at my daughter's pre-school graduation this Sunday. I will play that by ear. If she plays nice, fine. If she starts in with the drama and guilt trips and passive aggessive blame game, I will simply tell her that these things have to stop or she will not see me anymore, and I will walk away. That is the plan right now, anyway.

One thing I haven't really thought about is how it will affect my girls as they get older. They are only 4 and 6 right now, but I can see how in the future she will treat them the same way she has treated me. I think about it now and there have already been little things. Like, "don't you love me more than (other grandmother)" "aren't I your favorite" and then the pouty lip and fake boo hooing if they don't respond in the way she wants. It's only happened a couple of times, but I can see that leading down the exact same path, and that will NOT be happening anymore. If there is anything I will not roll over and let her do, it is treat my kids like that.

Hugs to all of you who are going or have gone through similar situations. It is hard when it is your family. I have stopped talking to other family...such as a cousin who is 26 and on her fourth child with a fourth man and just acts like trash and her poor kids see and hear I don't know what. I don't speak or communicate at all with her, and it was hard, because I feel sorry for her children. But I don't want her around MY children, and they come first. So, I'm not one of those who thinks family sticks together through thick and thin. Yes, if you have a great relationship with your family, absolutely. But you do not get to choose your family, and I'm not all about having people in my life that I would not surround myself with if they were not flesh and blood. It's harder when it's your mom, or both parents (my father is no saint himself, but he is not nearly as bad as she is), but I will have to suck it up and do what is best for myself, my DH, and our children.

Cross your fingers for me on Sunday!

OP, I could have written your post. And my kids are now 10 and 13 and while they love their grandmother, they have now witnessed her bad behavior and do not want to be around her. And it is my job to protect them from the guilt trips, the why don't you call me, the please go on vacation with me.... I took a stand after years of therapy. My sister and I stopped all communication with my mom a month ago. No call on Mother's Day. It was hard and I have grown up with a tremendous amount of guilt. This was not easy but life has been so peaceful. I set boundaries, as suggested by my therapist, but they were broken time and time again. A good friend once told me , "You have to harden your heart." She was right. I worked so hard but she will never change. Be strong OP and do what is best for you and your children.

 

[RyMacJ]

While I hate that so many of you are in or have been in similar situations to me, I do have to admit that it's comforting to know I'm not the only one. My friends, who, as I mentioned, have been my friends forever, all have great relationships with their mothers. Their parents love each other and are still married. The same with my cousins. My mom has four sisters and two brothers, and they and most of their kids live in the same town as us. My cousins have great relationships with their moms, and my aunts and uncles are all still married and happy. That was a very lonely place to be in growing up. I wondered why my mom couldn't be more like her sisters, why I couldn't have the relationship with her that my cousins had with my aunts.

I have a very strong feeling that my mother is bi-polar. She would never, ever admit to that or go and see a doctor for a diagnosis. To her, mental health problems are a "bad" thing. I've tried to explain, in a roundabout way that would not tip her off that I was referring to her issues, that mental health issues are a part of life. They affect many people, from all walks of life, and they are no more "wrong" or somebody's "fault" than it is if you have cancer or any kind of medical illness.

I did speak to DH a little bit about it last night, and he was so supportive. He didn't get angry like I thought he would. He was upset that I was upset. He mentioned that he ran into a friend of my mom's yesterday, and that she had said the last time she spoke to my mom that my DH had been described as the best man ever and gushed over. Shocked the crap out of me, because all my mother does is complain about DH to me. She tends to think if I argue about something with her it is all his fault, and his influence on me. I get the line that I used to be a good kid until I met him. Same ole, same ole, because when I was a teenager, it was that I used to be a good child until so and so influenced me to go against her. She never likes to think I can have my own opinions or thoughts.

I am hoping to stick to my guns and try and make this work. I plan on being completely cordial with her at functions (starting with my daughter's pre-school graduation Sunday, as I mentioned in a previous post) and just walk away if she becomes irate or argumentative, or woe is me manipulative. It is so much easier said than done when it comes to not engaging, because there are time when the things she says and does infuriates me. But, I have to learn to suck it up and be the bigger person, and, as some of you have mentioned, teach my children that you don't give in to people like her. I also plan on watching like a hawk every time my kids are with her and make sure she is not badmouthing anybody in my family or DH's family. They've spent the night with her a few times in the past, but I think it's time for that to end. They are older now and I wouldn't put it past her to bash me or DH, or especially my dad, to them.

I'm just crossing my fingers and taking a deep breath!

 

[RitaE]

Sorry to hear about your troubles OP.

I have a lifetime of stories myself, but my Mom is also mentally ill with decades long history of addiction and other behaviors that have completely alienated my oldest sister and have driven me and my youngest sister to complete frustration.

She is now in an Assisted Living situation but even still, it is a constant battle of dealing with her lies, deceit and just plain crazy. I know it isn't politically correct to refer to somebody as crazy but the word fits.

Anybody who ever deals with this sort of thing will tell you that you cannot let them entrap you into the "Well she shouldn't be expected to do (fill in the blank with your functional behavior standard of the day) and no matter what outrageous action she pulls she must be forgiven because she is special so we should all just run around like frantic headless chickens cleaning up her messes and trying to hide or explain the mass dysfunction to everybody around us.

There are days that I honestly don't know why I haven't just walked away for my own sanity, like my oldest sister has. I guess I feel some sort of obligation to keep her housed and as safe as possible.

 

[momof1princess]

OP, I'm so sorry for what you're going through, and I understand. My mom went off the rails (as the PP said, it isn't PC to refer to someone as crazy, but it REALLY does fit) about 3 years ago, and I have to keep her at a distance, for the sake of my sanity, and the safety of my family (yes, she is really a danger to herself and others-she went so far as to wreck her car to get an ex-boyfriend's attention). I talk to her on the phone maybe once every 7-10 days, and that's the best I can manage, for now.

the PP's who advised you to set boundaries and not let her cross them are right-you have to draw the line, and stick to it. I've had to do it, and it was really hard, because there was a time I was very close to my mother; but, it really has been the best thing for me and my family. you're not alone

 

[suejai]

This web site http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/ was recommended on a similar thread a few years back. It has helped me greatly in dealing with my own mother.

 

[mommasita]

Who are you to "question" what the OP says about how her children feel? I think she probably knows her own children better than you do. What a pompous statement OP, sometimes you just have to walk away. There's a quote I heard once that really helps me sometimes..."Be with those that bring out the best in you, not the stress in you"

I have to agree with this.

And say, why add to the OP's pain?

I too have the EXACT mother as yourself, and many others here.

I can not, and will not break contact, as my sister has done so with my mother as well as myself and my children.. So, I am ALL my mother really has.. I smile, I nod, I cry a lot.. I cry because I believe I have lost my mother alive...I try and be the best daughter I can.. It isn't always easy. It is actually almost never easy.. I cry because my kids don't even want to call or go visit her, and they used to almost want to practically live there, so that hurts too..

Try to not to take it personally, it isn't a reflection on you, or of you...