What's fair?

[elainesj]

In our situation, we do a fair bit to help out my ILs. DH has 2 brothers and one sister. One brother lives in our city along with MIL and FIL. The other btother and sister are 4 hours away.

BIL #1 takes care of MIL's 2 rental properties. In return, he gets to keep the rents (which doesn't cover all the maintenance costs but that's besides the point). He also helps MIL by taking her to doc appts (along with DH and myself). His wife occassionally helps out in various ways in MIL's care.

MIL lives with us. So we undertake the bulk of her care. Thankfully, at present, she has enough income from SS to pay for her own care. So financially, she is not a burden. (Although I feel all the others should be paying us big bucks to put up with the potty in the room MIL and my DD share LOL!)

BIL #2 doesn't, and has never contributed anything to his parents' care.

SIL does not contribute to her parents' care. She did take MIL in to her home for 1 year until her health failed enough that she moved in with us because at that time I was a SAHM and could provide more care.

At present, we don't anticipate any of the siblings having to contribute financially to either parents' care as their resources, while not extravagant, are sufficient for their care. None of us make big bucks so that's a relief.

For my own parents, my mother is wealthy and I don't anticipate any problems. My dad is wealthy - but a horrible saver and I always tuck away an extra few pennies in my mind in case I have to care for him in his old age. My husband is OK with this.

My own brother is not financially stable and to be honest, I would never in my wildest dreams have thought of expecting him to pony up cash for "his" share of parent care until I read this thread. I did not realise that could be "expected". I always figured if anything happened, I would take it all on myself since I know he can't afford it. (and yes, it's because of his own financial decisions, etc etc)

If I was in OP's situation, I would be shocked if any of my siblings expected me to contribute financially if I am struggling and they are not. For both DH and myself, whoever can afford it helps out. BIL#2 has always struggled financially and none of the rest of us would dream of even asking him to contribute towards helping his parents even though it might be considered "fair". (It WOULD be nice if he contributed in non-financial ways...but as he's so far away, it's unlikely that would ever happen).

I would highly recommend a HELOC in this situation. I know my ILs would never consider asking their children for money for their care while they still had income/savings. Once that's depleted then it's a different story.

 

[Marionnette]

But apparently your siblings deserve no love or compassion from you? Were so many people here really raised with an "anything for mom/dad but my siblings are on their own" mentality?

In my family we all help each other when we can, regardless of whether or not we "owe it" to the other person. And my kids are being raised the same way. I presented this scenario to them last night and they all had the same response "Why WOULDN'T I help my brother if I could???"

I'm sure Brother 1 wouldn't be raising such a fuss if Brother 2 offered to pay the whole $600, he's just miffed because he feels that his sister is getting something he's not and it's not fair.

Who's idea was it to give Brother 1 the whole inheritance based on a promise of future care for mom? That is pretty risky as there is no way to know how long mom will live or if she will ever move in with him.

OP, I would really think about seeing an elder care attorney - it seems like there are several issues here that need some professional guidance.

You really read a lot into my posts. You have no idea WHAT kind of relationship I have with my siblings. Suffice it to say, that none of them are destitute or in need of my help right now. If they needed it, I would be there for any of them at a drop of a hat.

However, this thread is not about me. It's about the OP's situation. As I see it, she is reluctant to do more in order to take care of her mother's needs. But she is willing to let her siblings shoulder the burden. In what way is that "fair" to her brothers? One brother is perfectly fine with paying her share but the other is sees it as his sister getting out of her obligation while he continues to shoulder his share. I tend to agree with that brother.

 

[mrsklamc]

How is it "fair" to brother #1 that brother #2 picks up your share of the burden just because you cry poor mouth? He has financial concerns, too.

It is not unfair to brother #1, because it's brother #2's money. What is fair is that brother #2 gets to spend the money he has earned in the way that he chooses.

The arrangement has no impact on brother #1 - he is not being required to pay more than his third - and is none of his business.

 

[horseshowmom]

It is not unfair to brother #1, because it's brother #2's money. What is fair is that brother #2 gets to spend the money he has earned in the way that he chooses.

The arrangement has no impact on brother #1 - he is not being required to pay more than his third - and is none of his business.

Absolutely, agree! Brother #1 is paying his third, but his complaint is about his sister's third. As long as he's only paying his third (and not part of his sister's third), it's none of his business where her part comes from. He's not in charge of what she and brother #2 choose to do. Brother #2 doesn't have a problem with it, and it's HIS money. Why on earth should brother #1 have any say in what brother #2 does with his money? He's just trying to play boss.

 

[mrsklamc]

In my opinion, you sacrifice for your parents. They sacrificed their wants and needs in order to provide for yours. If you have a daughter who is almost the same age as your former husband's girlfriend, then you have someone who is old enough to stay home at night to watch her sister while you pick up a second job.

Not all parents, unfortunately, do sacrifice their wants and needs to provide for their children. That cannot be assumed.

She said that the girlfriend could be her daughter, not that the girlfriend is the same age as her daughter. There is a big difference there.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Note to self: Tell children if I get dementia or can't take care of myself, and I don't have funds....just put me in a nursing home!

As a mom of four, I don't want my kids getting second jobs to take care of me in my old age! I want them to enjoy their lives with their kids and to sacrifice for THEM! Just pop in now and then pat me on the head and say hey mom we love ya! I am ok with that!!

 

[Nancyg56]

Note to self: Tell children if I get dementia or can't take care of myself, and I don't have funds....just put me in a nursing home!

As a mom of four, I don't want my kids getting second jobs to take care of me in my old age! I want them to enjoy their lives with their kids and to sacrifice for THEM! Just pop in now and then pat me on the head and say hey mom we love ya! I am ok with that!!

Exactly. I helped my Mom just as she helped me when she could. She would never have been comfortable if she thought that I was leaving my kids to take on a second job in order to satisfy an amount that I was not able to afford. I would never allow my own children to do that either.

I am a little confused why people here have told the OP that she needs to placate a brother who is not paying any more than the 1/3 of the amount of the bill. He has no business in the business between his siblings. Unless he is asked to pay more than his share he needs to mind his own business. It is clear that the OP's other brother is satisfied with the financial arrangements.

I have never understood why anyone feels that it is okay to set financial standards for anyone else. In my home I make my own decisions and I do what I can. Unless I am placing a burden on the brother who is complaining he needs to remain out of my business.

Seriously? Wow! I'll just say that I'm glad to be a part of a family that sees things so much differently than you do. Anything that my parents did for me was out of their love for me. Anything that I can do for them in their so-called golden years is also done out of love. Not a sense of obligation or responsibility.

In my family we all pitched in in the ways we were able. No one made anyone else feel guilty. I was home so I stayed the most at my Mom's. It was what I could do and I did that. The time my siblings stayed was a lot for them. AS long as they did their best that was all I could ask and if I could pick up the slack I did. That is what my family does. If we all had to play even steven it would be a mess.

However, this thread is not about me. It's about the OP's situation. As I see it, she is reluctant to do more in order to take care of her mother's needs. But she is willing to let her siblings shoulder the burden. In what way is that "fair" to her brothers? One brother is perfectly fine with paying her share but the other is sees it as his sister getting out of her obligation while he continues to shoulder his share. I tend to agree with that brother.

I hope that you are never in a situation where you are unable to contribute what someone has determined you need to contribute. In my case, I practically lived in my Mother's home. My siblings worked so if we had to divide out time evenly they would have been very hard pressed to carry out their "fair share". What is fair is that we all do what we can. If I could help out take take some of the pressure off my sister that was MY business. Not any other sibling. If one brother has offered to help his sister financially that is HIS business, no one else's. The other brother can continue to resent this but he has no right to intrude in their business. As long as he is not asked to pay more than his 1/3 he needs to stop.

 

[Marionnette]

I have never understood why anyone feels that it is okay to set financial standards for anyone else. In my home I make my own decisions and I do what I can. Unless I am placing a burden on the brother who is complaining he needs to remain out of my business.

The time for the OP to speak up was when they all decided to pay for their mother's care to the turn of $600/month. If she couldn't afford it and was unwilling/unable to earn additional money to pick up her share, she should have voiced her concerns at that time. I totally understand how brother #1 would feel as if she is now backing out of the deal. I imagine that he is making adjustments to his own budget to make his payments.

In my family we all pitched in in the ways we were able. No one made anyone else feel guilty. I was home so I stayed the most at my Mom's. It was what I could do and I did that. The time my siblings stayed was a lot for them. AS long as they did their best that was all I could ask and if I could pick up the slack I did. That is what my family does. If we all had to play even steven it would be a mess.

I think it's great that your family all pitches in to help your mother. I'm sure that your sibs appreciate that you give so much of your time while their time is limited. But the OP has already said that she cannot make it to where her mother lives to be of any assistance on a regular basis. It's just something else that she can't do.

I hope that you are never in a situation where you are unable to contribute what someone has determined you need to contribute. In my case, I practically lived in my Mother's home. My siblings worked so if we had to divide out time evenly they would have been very hard pressed to carry out their "fair share". What is fair is that we all do what we can. If I could help out take take some of the pressure off my sister that was MY business. Not any other sibling. If one brother has offered to help his sister financially that is HIS business, no one else's. The other brother can continue to resent this but he has no right to intrude in their business. As long as he is not asked to pay more than his 1/3 he needs to stop.

Thank you for your good wishes, although I doubt their sincerity. Again, this thread is not about me. Nor is it about you and your siblings. And with regards to her, I get the impression that this is more about brother #1 and his relationship with the OP than it is about "what's fair". I'm probably reading into this, but I'm sensing that brother #1 has had enough of the OP getting away with not pulling her weight, as he sees it, while he has to make his own accommodations to take care of their mother.

 

[Nancyg56]

The time for the OP to speak up was when they all decided to pay for their mother's care to the turn of $600/month. If she couldn't afford it and was unwilling/unable to earn additional money to pick up her share, she should have voiced her concerns at that time. I totally understand how brother #1 would feel as if she is now backing out of the deal. I imagine that he is making adjustments to his own budget to make his payments.

I think it's great that your family all pitches in to help your mother. I'm sure that your sibs appreciate that you give so much of your time while their time is limited. But the OP has already said that she cannot make it to where her mother lives to be of any assistance on a regular basis. It's just something else that she can't do.

Thank you for your good wishes, although I doubt their sincerity. Again, this thread is not about me. Nor is it about you and your siblings. And with regards to her, I get the impression that this is more about brother #1 and his relationship with the OP than it is about "what's fair". I'm probably reading into this, but I'm sensing that brother #1 has had enough of the OP getting away with not pulling her weight, as he sees it, while he has to make his own accommodations to take care of their mother.

First, I never say what I don't mean. I sincerely do hope that you are never in a position to need to make choices, help your own family or help a parent. It is a devastating place to be. I think that is is easy to sit at a computer and tell a single mother that she needs to take a second job in order to satisfy a debt that none of know the original terms of. We know that brother #1 feels that sister needs to pay her share even though he is not burdened with her portion of the debt. IMO, and it is just my own opinion, he can complain if he is paying the money., If he is not he has no say. Brother #2 has decided to put more in and has made arrangements that are satisfactory for him. He is the only one who has any say in how he pays sister's portion.

My own Mom has passed on. My siblings did what they could I did what I could. I had one sister who did not pitch in much. She chose not to. That was her decision, it was not my place to make arrangements for her and insist she carry those arrangements out. The rest of us knew what needed to be done and we did it, and that was our decision.

None of the adult children in this family live within traveling distance of the mother so the OP is not dropping the ball here. She has done what she could to help to make up for her financial difficulty.

 

[mrsklamc]

The time for the OP to speak up was when they all decided to pay for their mother's care to the turn of $600/month.

We don't know that she didn't.

 

[MrsMac218]

All these responses make me sad.

My parents are divorced and have been since I was 2. They have both remarried and each have had 2 more kids. My oldest sibling is 9 years younger than I am. I am all for "being fair", but I think my idea of fair is much different than a lot of yours. Neither my mother or my father would be happy with me if I made a big deal of taking care of them financially, or if I wasn't compassionate to my brothers & sisters. I know I am most likely to financially take care of them when they are older. That doesn't bother me. And if there was something wrong with my parents health, the last thing I would want to do would be to make my siblings feel even worse than they are already feeling, knowing they will soon lose a parent.

Because I love my parents, I would do what I had to do for them financially, without expecting anything from my siblings.

I didn't even grow up with either of my parents, or live with any of my siblings for most of my young life, and I still feel this way. I would also do the same for my grandparents, who DID raise me...and I wouldn't expect any of their 3 children (including my mom) to help me. I do what I do out of love, with no expectations.

I feel so sad for OP...clearly she is going through a lot, and so many of these comments here are hurtful. She lost her husband, she is now a single mom, working and trying to make it on her own, and now her moms health isn't great. Cut her a little slack, maybe?

 

[anotherdismom]

I didn't read it all... and maybe its been said, but families support each other. Its just my brother and I, and our relationship over the years has ranged from horrible to non-existent... but when our Dad was dying, we both did everything we could to support each other. There wasn't $$$ involved in his care, but even when it came to dividing up assets and cleaning out Dad's house we both lovingly, and respectfully supported each other... and I feel sooooo blessed by that. So many family relationships end up destroyed over $$$... Not sure what brother #1s issue is... but he is not being loving and supportive toward his sister, the op at this time. If she were going to WDW next month and living large, I could see telling her that she needs to chip in more, but this isn't the time. Personally, I wouldn't even feel right deducting the $$ from her portion of any inheritence. If she's doing her best, she's doing her best, she's not running an enititled I don't want to attitude... and this isn't the government... this is FAMILY!!! You do what is right and loving, not what is FAIR.

 

[doreleta821]

hahaha,

i think there are no absolute fair in the world. No opinion on what is fair or isn't fair.

 

[Lucky4me]

I haven't read every reply, but it sounds as if brother #1 is overwhelmed with his agreement to have your Mother move in with him and is really squawking about that, not the $200 you can't afford to pay.
If his wife is already disabled, maybe it's just too much for him to take care of your Mother as well. Maybe he feels he shouldn't be paying $200 either, because someday he'll be doing it all for Mom.

I also do not know why your Mother isn't eligible for help through Medicaid for this in home help. If all she has to her name is $40,000 in home equity, surely she qualifies for Medicaid. If brother #1 does not want to apply for it now because he thinks they'll take the home equity, he is wrong about that. Pretty sure she can have $100,000 in home equity while still living in the house and get Medicaid.

If you are that strapped for cash, I'd just say so and pay what you can. Completely ignore brother #1, and any time he says something derogatory to you, email him info on applying for Medicaid.

I'd also contact an elder care attorney. Most have free initial appointments and can give you a lot of info in that first appointment. You can also find out a lot about Medicaid online.

How does your Mother feel about the situation?

 

[Swan4Me]

I have two older brothers. Our mother is 77 years old and has dementia. We have hired a Home Health Aide to come into her house several times a week to check on her, tidy up, fix her some meals, etc. It costs about $600 a month.

.

How can she be alone at all?

Sell the house, put her in a mursing home and when the $$ runs out, Medicare will take over.

 

[McKelly]

How can she be alone at all?

Sell the house, put her in a mursing home and when the $$ runs out, Medicare will take over.

I don't think you can just put people in nursing homes. They have to be assessed and the medical need has to be there. Maybe she would qualify for Assisted Living, but that's big bucks, and again, with only $40,000.00 in assets she should qualify for Medicaid, which would help pay for assisted living. The SS check would go to the assisted living facility with a small amount to be kept out for her personal necessitites. $40,000 might cover a year.

 

[Swan4Me]

I can't move there. She lives almost 3 hours from here. I'd have to uproot my children and leave all of our friends. And, maybe you haven't heard, but it's VERY difficult to find teaching jobs these days! She can't move here, because she would be alone all day, I don't have the room, and we are at least 45 minutes from doctors/hospitals where she goes often.

But isnt she alone all day now?
$600 a month is 60 hours give or take-which is 2 hours a day care(going with a $10 an hour wage)

We had in house sitters and Mom basically slept in her wheelchair all day-stopped doing everything- now she has activities all day long in the nursing home-best decision we ever made.

 

[RachaelA]

How can she be alone at all?

Sell the house, put her in a mursing home and when the $$ runs out, Medicare will take over.

My grandmother had dementia. She was fine on her own for years with my mom and aunts checking in by phone everyday and in person about every other day. They did her shopping and cleaning, but she could still cook basic meals. It doesn't always spiral downward fast.

My grandma only needed 24/7 help once it got really bad near the end (last 14 months). My aunt and little brother moved in and my mom and other aunt took shifts.

 

[Tink-aholic]

What's fair is that mom should of had a LTC plan in place before this occurred and she should be covering her own expenses. That's the fair version.

There is no legal responsibility for the OP to cover any expense of her mother. Her mother is her own person. Morally, I'd send whatever I could and let my brother know what I thought of him and his attitude. I'd try to do more service type help, and I think going through the house is a great start for the OP, instead of worrying about the financial part.

OP, you need to worry about YOUR children. Help them get through this rough patch and also make sure that your future is secure and that you won't become a burden to your children. I'd make that a financial priority over sending money that you don't have to spare to your brothers.

I totally agree with this and was surprised that I had to read as many pages in (and as many about "choices" as I did!) until I read the first response that made any sense. Why is the mother's choice not being respected here?

It seems to me that, unless she made it clear otherwise, her choice was to sell her remaining assets and live in a county-run nursing home on Medicaid/Welfare.

If Brother #1 wants Mom to come live with him in the mother-in-law apartment, I say the time is now. Medicaid has a 10 year spend-down look back period.

 

[wdwgrannyb]

I cared for my mother who had dementia until she had to be placed in a nursing home. I, too, had 2 older brothers who were both retired but had no time for mom. I worked 40 hrs. a week and had a home and husband to care for (NOT complaining or bragging). I did it because I wanted to and because I would never turn my mom down for anything. She lived in a nursing home until she passed(5 years). My brothers never had time to visit, but when it came time for her estate to be divided they were there with their hands grabbing. It was divided equally, as it should be.Moral to this story--- They have to live with themselves and I sleep at night quite well. No remorse here.