What we missing? Dining Plan not adding up

[TeresaWen]

No, you're not missing something. We eat like you do and it doesn't work for us either. For one thing, it's too much food. And we're just not foodies- it would not be at all unusual for us to go to a nice restaurant and I would just have salad and a glass of wine (which would be OOP), or split something with another family member. And there's no way all five of us would eat a dessert, unless we were skipping the entree, which we have been known to do.

I like to eat out in order to relax in a nice atmosphere with the family. The DDP would not contribute to that in any way. It would add unnecessary stress and introduce another factor into the planning mix, which I just don't need. As much as possible, I want to eat what I want, when I want to. Even if it's french fries and ice cream for dinner.

Exactly! Not having the dining plan allows for so much freedom - no worries about what we eat, how we eat, where we eat, when we eat! We can cancel an ADR if we want to! We can order apps, skip desert, have desert later, eat at a table service for breakfast (something most on the plan will not do because it lessens the value), eat at places that do not take the dining plan, eat at a bar, have a huge lunch and snack for dinner, oh the choices! We even ate off property at a fine dining restaurant last year because we had friends come down and invite us to dinner!

I guess freedom means different things to each of us. To me the dining plan would be like a leash.

 

[Colleen27]

I, personally, have never had a problem getting 20% savings or more out of DxDP. And, my wife and I don't sit there and analyze which appetizer/entree/dessert combination maximizes our savings. It helps, of course, that my wife likes Lobster, and I like a nice filet, typically the most expensive items on the menu.

We've never had a problem in the past either but at next year's pricing it would be a stretch. I'm still putting together the numbers but for the way we've always used the deluxe plan - 1TS lunch, signature dinner, one snack on a snack and the other on a beverage (sometimes bottled water, sometimes smoothies or lattes) - I'm not seeing enough savings to justify pre-purchasing any more. And I'm really looking... I'm apprehensive about taking a non-DDP trip with my husband because I know how he is about prices and I'm not sure if he'll really be able to enjoy our dining without the DxDDP making menu prices irrelevant.

I had thought to get the plan for my son and myself in May, knowing that we both enjoy dining as a big part of our travels and that we're likely to have a lot of signature dinners where we order the most expensive options, but even assuming we order each and every thing we're entitled to (no skipping/sharing desserts or drinking water, for example) the savings is only working out to ~15%. Once you remove the things we wouldn't want - about 1/3 of the desserts and the refillable mugs - that savings drops to ~5%. Cancelling one meal in favor of room service/counter service or choosing a couple of salads instead of the heavier entrees that I anticipate we'd order has the potential to completely erase what little savings is offered, and that makes the plan too inflexible for my tastes. There needs to be about 20% "on paper" savings in my numbers in order to hedge against losing money if plans change just slightly, and at $100pp per night that savings just isn't there any more.

 

[Colleen27]

Maybe its me, but this just doesn't make logical nor financial sense.

Personal financial issues always have some emotional component, especially in regard to luxury purchases like vacations.

I totally get where the OP is coming from - we come from a small Midwestern town where the "expensive" restaurant we go to for celebration dinners costs 15-20 per entree. DH has a very hard time looking at a Disney menu and seeing the same filet he could have for $18 at our little waterfront favorite back home priced at $35-40, and don't even get me started on his comments about the kids wanting $5 frozen cokes that would cost 99¢ at our neighborhood party store. The DDP/DxDDP has, for years, allowed us the freedom of ignoring those inflated prices, and the psychological aspects of paying OOP are definitely less clear-cut to me than the hard numbers of it.

It is easy to decide to buy a plan that saves money, but now that the savings are far more marginal the question becomes - is it worth the risk of losing money on the plan to avoid issues/stress over menu pricing during your vacation? And that's a question I still can't even answer for myself, much less advise anyone else on; at this point I've decided against the plan for my solo and mom & child trips, but for the trip with DH I'm still completely undecided.

 

[Colleen27]

But the TiW card is only available to those with AP, DVC or FL residents, so not neccessarily a choice for everyone.

Yep. If you're already eligible, it is a better deal than any of the DDPs for most circumstances. But it very seldom makes sense to upgrade to an otherwise unneeded AP to have access so it really isn't an option for most visitors.

 

[elaine amj]

People look at it in two different ways with (or without) the plan. Some look at the menu and see more choices than they would have when OOP, since they can trend toward the higher end of the menu. Others see just the opposite, that they are "forced" to dine on the top end of the menu, when what they want may be less. Neither is wrong, and that's what makes the choice of DDP one that doesn't fit all.

The second side of that, is the spend more to get more thing. A good example of this is my upcoming trip. I am using the DxDDP for 9 nights, total cost (if I had paid for it) would have been about $765, adding in tips and stuff that's not covered, I'm looking at just about $1000 for food over those 9 days. Now, the question is, what am I getting for that $1000? When doing the math out, it came out to be about $1250 worth of food.

Now, the second question (to the second side for those keeping score at home) is "Would I actually eat all that OOP?" The answer to that is "No, I wouldn't."

Why? I'm in the first category that I described above. I would choose to skimp on meals that I wanted, skip out on restaurants that I was interested in, and more than likely get more CS than TS than I had planned. This would be an overall cheapening (in more ways than one) of the vacation as a whole. All said and done, this would have come to around $800 after skimping and skipping. So, that's about $200 cheaper than with DxDDP, that must mean that going OOP would save money right? Not exactly.

Now, I take a look at the two plans. I'm getting ~$450 more worth of food and experience (since I cut back on some of the signatures that I wanted) for only $200 more OOP. To me, that's worth it. For others, it may be the reverse. That's why taking your dining interests and general menu item trends into account is very important. There simply is no simple answer to the age old "is it worth it?" as it's far too intertwined with how the individual (and the party itself) visualize their trip.

So, in the end, I can go cheaper by going OOP, that's not always desirable nor ideal though. The point isn't getting out as cheaply as possible, but getting what you want out of your vacation without paying more than you should. If I wanted to get out super cheap, I'd pack some PB&J sandwiches for every meal, but that's not what I'm looking for.

(As a note, the above also includes the fact that the plan fits how I plan my trip and what I want out of it and the fact that I do trend toward the higher half of menus due to my taste preferences and the fact that I don't eat fish, chicken, or pork).

It doesn't make sense if your primary objective is to spend less money. For us, it's more about enhancing our vacation. When we pay for things OOP, we tend to deny ourselves (even if it is something we can afford) because we are very frugally minded. When we are on vacation, it's nice to let go and not think about every penny we are spending. By purchasing the dining plan, we know that we will be able to enjoy dining experiences that enhance our vacation without having to think about the cost every time we eat something.

Personal financial issues always have some emotional component, especially in regard to luxury purchases like vacations.

I totally get where the OP is coming from - we come from a small Midwestern town where the "expensive" restaurant we go to for celebration dinners costs 15-20 per entree. DH has a very hard time looking at a Disney menu and seeing the same filet he could have for $18 at our little waterfront favorite back home priced at $35-40, and don't even get me started on his comments about the kids wanting $5 frozen cokes that would cost 99¢ at our neighborhood party store. The DDP/DxDDP has, for years, allowed us the freedom of ignoring those inflated prices, and the psychological aspects of paying OOP are definitely less clear-cut to me than the hard numbers of it.

It is easy to decide to buy a plan that saves money, but now that the savings are far more marginal the question becomes - is it worth the risk of losing money on the plan to avoid issues/stress over menu pricing during your vacation? And that's a question I still can't even answer for myself, much less advise anyone else on; at this point I've decided against the plan for my solo and mom & child trips, but for the trip with DH I'm still completely undecided.

Exactly the way I think. For us being a family of 4 staying at a Value with free dining, it has always made complete sense to use it and upgrade to free DDP. With the latest round of cost increases, I don't know if the math will work the same anymore. Still I have to say, for our frugal-minded family, the psychological benefits of having free DDP has really contributed significantly to our vacations and have been a MAJOR part of the reason we love going to WDW.

Exactly! Not having the dining plan allows for so much freedom - no worries about what we eat, how we eat, where we eat, when we eat! We can cancel an ADR if we want to! We can order apps, skip desert, have desert later, eat at a table service for breakfast (something most on the plan will not do because it lessens the value), eat at places that do not take the dining plan, eat at a bar, have a huge lunch and snack for dinner, oh the choices! We even ate off property at a fine dining restaurant last year because we had friends come down and invite us to dinner!

I guess freedom means different things to each of us. To me the dining plan would be like a leash.

I sometimes dream of the time when it makes financial sense for us to stay offsite and go with no DDP. I love apps, and being on DDP has denied me some of the "freedom" to order apps. And no, I'm just not the kind of person who can order an app OOP when I have so much food I can order that's "free". You're right, in many ways DDP is like a "leash". I can't resist when it's a leash that saves me SO much money though! I ran the numbers and it was eye-opening how much I saved with free dining for my particular family.

I think in so many ways DDP used to be a fabulous bargain and now it no longer is and those of us used to using it are having to adapt and consider OOP. At the current prices, I can't ever see myself paying for DDP. More than likely, if free dining doesn't make financial sense, it would push my offsite along with having more offsite meals.

 

[Dean]

While I agree that there can be risks to the DDP you must admit that if one was concerned about that there would be no pre purchases made at Disney.

No Hard ticket events. No Hoop-de-Doo. No Cirque du Soleil.

Yes, you risk losing money if someone falls ill. But I am not going to let that prospect make me fail to buy Party tickets or book a tour. I refuse to worry about an illness making my DDP a loss. If I had a family member whose health was something I needed to factor into my trip decisions, well that is a different story. But that is not what you are talking about here, I think.

All I'm suggesting is that people realize their risks and that the risk for the DDP is likely the largest portion for many trips even more than the room or air for many families. That doesn't mean one has to avoid it or other prepaid items. However, the plan is locked in once you hit a certain timeframe which is frequently more restrictive than many of the other items you mention as well as often being a much larger $$$ amount than those others even in aggregate. It's also additive to all of the other risk. The DDP are specialty options that make sense for some and not for others. Shorter stays, kids 3-9, certain meal options increase the value and the reverse reduces or totally removes the $$$ value. My definitions of savings are compared to what you would have paid without the DDP and value is what you would like to order if you had the opportunity. Simply taking the cost of what you did order is not a true picture for most people and over estimates the real value of the DDP for many.

 

[BeadyLady]

My thought is I can't eat a full meal but enjoy the sit down restaurants, so getting the DDP works for us. Plus I will try something as price isn't an issue.

wish we were there NOW

 

[ogreenlee]

This I know is probably going to gain criticism, but for me the idea that I do not have to worry about budgeting for food while on vacation makes the plan worth it. Do we look at the menu and eat the most expensive items, no. But knowing it has all been paid for already and I only have to worry about money for souvenirs and tips makes it a win for us.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

My husband likes the Dining Plan for the same reason. It basically turns the vacation into an All-Inclusive trip.

I just wish we had more freedom. I don't want a table service every day, but with the Dining Plan, I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth if I'm not eating at the best places. I wish they'd triple my Amex Skymiles with every dollar spent.

 

[xipotec]

If you eat at a 2 credit and then a 1 credit, and then a snack daily, i cannot see how you wouldn't get your moneys worth, plus you wouldn't be piggin out.

 

[Dean]

If you eat at a 2 credit and then a 1 credit, and then a snack daily, i cannot see how you wouldn't get your moneys worth, plus you wouldn't be piggin out.

There are many choices that would return less than what you paid in this scenario and many more that would still be more than you would have spent OOP. The Dlx plan is the easiest to show a return, it gets much more difficult with the basic plan and extremely difficult with the QS plan. And that assumes you use all the credits for real meals not just to get snacks to take home.

 

[sharonabe]

If you eat at a 2 credit and then a 1 credit, and then a snack daily, i cannot see how you wouldn't get your moneys worth, plus you wouldn't be piggin out.

Yes, you can get your money's worth, but for my family it would still be pigging out. The only plan that let's you do what you suggest is the Deluxe plan. That means my family would have FOUR apps, FOUR entrees, and FOUR desserts on the table. That's way too much food and defines pigging out for me. We don't need and would not eat that much food. So paying OOP is still cheaper for us.

 

[xipotec]

Yes, you can get your money's worth, but for my family it would still be pigging out. The only plan that let's you do what you suggest is the Deluxe plan. That means my family would have FOUR apps, FOUR entrees, and FOUR desserts on the table. That's way too much food and defines pigging out for me. We don't need and would not eat that much food. So paying OOP is still cheaper for us.

Lol maybe it is pigging out, I don't know. We gave up the clean plate club along time ago, so we may not finish everything. We also take our time at meals, hopefully we will not be rushed through the meals.

I was refering to DD, the other plans do seem a bit more expensive.

 

[Colleen27]

If you eat at a 2 credit and then a 1 credit, and then a snack daily, i cannot see how you wouldn't get your moneys worth, plus you wouldn't be piggin out.

It is actually pretty easy at current pricing.

An example (these are actual days out of my May plan, not something I threw together to make a point):

Lunch @ 50s Prime Time, 2 adults (myself and my 14yo bottomless pit)

$8.49 onion rings for two
$14.99 meatloaf
$16.99 fried chicken
$4.99 shake
$4.99 shake
$3.19 flavored Coke
$3.19 flavored Coke
$61.81 total DxDDP value

Dinner @ Flying Fish

$10 salad
$36 snapper
$9 boardwalk sweets dessert
$63 prix fixe menu
$3 Coke
$3 tea
$132.06 total DxDDP value

Snacks:
$5 bottled water (for two)
$4 carrot cake cookie to share

Total DxDDP value for the day - $202.87
Total DxDDP cost per night - $199.94

Another day:

Brown Derby lunch

$15 Cobb salad
$33 grouper
$3 tea
$11 prawns
$33 pork chop
$3 soda
$6 cobbler
$9 chocolate dessert
$120.34

Beaches & Cream dinner

$6.49 chili
$6.49 onion rings
$14.49 burger
$12.99 chicken Caesar salad
$3.19 flavored Coke
$3.19 flavored Coke
$6.49 strawberry shortcake
$8.49 no way jose sundae
$65.83

Snacks:
$5 bottled water (for two)
$4 cupcake from Starring Rolls
$4 cafe mocha

Total DxDDP value: $199.17

And these examples are ordering everything that the plan includes; real-world comparison would have us sharing one dessert or skipping it altogether at Brown Derby because nothing on the menu really sounds good, skipping the rather mundane appetizers at Beaches & Cream to leave room for dessert, and refilling our Brita bottles rather than wasting money on bottled water every day to beat the heat.

I have a spreadsheet where I run all the numbers for each trip, based on the "cast" of the trip, our ADR plans, likely menu choices at current pricing, etc. right down to including tax. I'd lose money on it if I used it solo or with my girls. I'd do little more than break even if traveling with DS. And none of the scenarios I've priced out at the 2013 rate offer enough savings to be worth pre-paying, because all are within the "margin of error" where a slight change of plans could easily put it in the realm of losing money on the plan.

 

[Luvamouse]

Colleen,

I really like your rundown. The numbers are what my family might do if we had TS each day. The fact is that it is too close to the actual cost and I only drink water. If you swapped 2 cokes for waters say at two meals, you could be under plan cost and you utilized the menu well!

I find that there are definitely two major groups of travelers -- those who enjoy a good table service meal to relax and enjoy their vacation, and folks like my family who cancel 4 of 5 ADR 's to go on more rides-we sometimes catch a great walkup TS when we have patience to sit still that long! It is interesting to note that among those who choose to do DPs, it is either for the convenience (which for me our KTTW supplies) or maximizing value-which can be fun! . And whatever the reason people do or don't DP, if it makes you happy.. . Of course now I'm starving and sitting at my (snack less) Chevy dealer getting work done on our Disney-Mobile so we are ready for January!

 

[sharonabe]

Lol maybe it is pigging out, I don't know. We gave up the clean plate club along time ago, so we may not finish everything. We also take our time at meals, hopefully we will not be rushed through the meals.

I was refering to DD, the other plans do seem a bit more expensive.

But you can't do a 2 credit, 1 credit, and a snack daily on the regular plan. You only get 1 TS credit a day. And with the regular DDP, you don't get the app, so your value for the money cost goes down.

 

[my2boyz]

We are struggling with this decision as well. Our trip consists if 3 adults 2 kids and an under 3 toddler. So we have res at Kona Chef Mickey's Crystal Palace, Le Cellier and MM Rose all for dinners. We don't drink pop and don't usually have dessert so I'm thinking right there it won't make sense for us but then I try to factor in quick breakfasts using snack credits for us and the toddler. I have no idea and am driving myself crazy over this. Money is not an issue but I am frugal and want to make sure it makes sense! Any input just based on the details given?? Need to decide soon as Oct 10th is around the corner when our payment is due!

 

[Dean]

But you can't do a 2 credit, 1 credit, and a snack daily on the regular plan. You only get 1 TS credit a day. And with the regular DDP, you don't get the app, so your value for the money cost goes down.

It's actually more difficult to realize a value from the basic plan than it is with the dlx plan. From an adult standpoint it takes some effort or at least certain choices to do so. The QS and snacks are often the make or break and the choice of both restaurants and meals have an impact. Other than certain meals, the 1 TS locations tend to give a better value than the signatures.

 

[bdklein]

We are struggling with this decision as well. Our trip consists if 3 adults 2 kids and an under 3 toddler. So we have res at Kona Chef Mickey's Crystal Palace, Le Cellier and MM Rose all for dinners. We don't drink pop and don't usually have dessert so I'm thinking right there it won't make sense for us but then I try to factor in quick breakfasts using snack credits for us and the toddler. I have no idea and am driving myself crazy over this. Money is not an issue but I am frugal and want to make sure it makes sense! Any input just based on the details given?? Need to decide soon as Oct 10th is around the corner when our payment is due!

Would you rather go on the Dining Plan, have to order as per the Dining Plan (meaning needing to order things to get value-steak vs chicken for example), pay for soda you won't drink and order, and eat dessert you probably wouldn't have otherwise? In that scenario you may some some money, but not defintitely.

Or the other option of eating and ordering what u want, having some flexibility, not paying for pop and dessert you don't want, not having Disney have your money months in advance, and you being in control of what you can order and eat? And possibly saving money at the same time?

I think you know the answer.

 

[Luvamouse]

We are struggling with this decision as well. Our trip consists if 3 adults 2 kids and an under 3 toddler. So we have res at Kona Chef Mickey's Crystal Palace, Le Cellier and MM Rose all for dinners. We don't drink pop and don't usually have dessert so I'm thinking right there it won't make sense for us but then I try to factor in quick breakfasts using snack credits for us and the toddler. I have no idea and am driving myself crazy over this. Money is not an issue but I am frugal and want to make sure it makes sense! Any input just based on the details given?? Need to decide soon as Oct 10th is around the corner when our payment is due!

I am one to say take the chance and do not go with the DDP. If you want convenience, charge using your KTTW card. I can say that not a single time would we have come out ahead with a purchased DDP. For us of course, your mileage may vary. But it won't vary that much. We'll be making our 5th trip in January, and we have always eaten whatever we wanted and whenever we wanted and still come in under the DDP cost for our family-- I add it all up after each trip, every single food/ice cream/beer. That includes 4 TS last trip-- none of them planned but none less than $120. We hit $990.36 for a 6 night stay. Included non-covered items such as tips, beers, appetizers (our preference over dessert) and souvenir popcorn buckets- 2. Our cost in 2012 for the 6 night DDP would have been $1236.96. That is not even Peak Price and we were there in peak dining season, leaving on February 26 so you would need to add another $48.

To be totally honest, I surprised my DH with front and center Luau tickets at just under $297 for 4 of us (on top of the 4 TS). This would blow our total up to $1287.36, and over the plan value by $38.36. Then again, that is STILL under the extra $48 that Peak Dining would have cost us. You can only get Category 3 seating at the Luau with TS credits and I wouldn't have used credits for it anyway. Really, even another $150 dinner would've kept us well under the DDP cost.

Again, just my experience, but it freed us up to order as we chose, not by what was covered. I know that many people here use it and love it. However, I could not foresee a world in which the DDP would work for us (personally) if we had to then walk... I feel if you are hesitant, try it without and see.

 

[BeadyLady]

For those still on the fence, any chance your visit could be during free dining? My upcoming trip I had agreed to pay for the Plan (2adults, lazy vaca mode). And I got a flyer from Disney for free dining during my trip.. Dont you think I was on the horn to my travel agent? This is the second time we have gotten free dining. and at normal times of the year never have done this in summer. Get playing on the actual DisVaca website. Get on their mailing list and cross your fingers.

wish we were there NOW