What the heck is wrong with George W. Bush?!

[JimFitz]

I am glad he knocked it down.....stem cell research and cloning should not be allowed. I just feel like we are getting too deep into science.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Is that really true? I'm interested to learn more about it.

I am in an evangelical denomination and I am really upset I voted for Bush. It's just been one thing after the other with him. I am disappointed that he vetoed this.

Free for life..If you go back a couple pages I also posted some offcial Jewsh statements on embriotic stem cell research
Absolutely...Even the strictest form of Judaism(orthodoxy) requires abortion if the life of the mother is at risk.Other movements of Judaism are even more liberal about it..Here is the Orthodox view of the unborn

Halacha (Jewish law) does define when a fetus becomes a nefesh (person). "...a baby...becomes a full-fledged human being when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a 'partial life.' " 5 In the case of a "feet-first" delivery, it happens when most of the fetal body is outside the mother's body.

Jewish beliefs and practice not neatly match either the "pro-life" nor the "pro-choice" points of view. The general principles of modern-day Judaism are that:

The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life. It gains "full human status at birth only." 2

Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus.

Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health.

With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women.

"...each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law." 5

 

[Saxsoon]

Last time I checked we were all unimportant at one point. Just living our happy little unlives until we grew all big and stong and came out. So, how would you feel now if you were the one being used in an experiment. Everything in your life ceasing to exist because someone decided that you were unworthy to be called human. Unhuman. A disgusting little wad that the only good can come with your death. That your life was less important than another's, simply because you were never given the chance to live it. I know I am not going to change anyones mind, just like you aren't going to change mine, so have fun all discussing what we have yet to truly ascertain. The point at which life begins. Because that is the issue at it's core, isn't it?

Oh and I guess we were all aliens at one point in time since people so strongly believe that we were not humans for a nine month period.


Jenny, what is the Jewish stance on rape victims, just curious.

 

[my4kids]

Guys, I obviously enjoy a good debate. But i'm going to bed now. I respect that you all are passionate about your opinions. This would be such a boring world if we were all the same. You know where I stand. I'm not moving. I think my original reason for posting was not to get in a debate about abortion or even to really debate stem cell research....believe me, I can have those debates any day of the week with my very many liberal (and some are Jewish, some athiest) friends. My point in posting was more to point out that the man made a decision based on what HE truly believes to be morally right and he did not compromise his morals even though it might have been the more popular thing to do. Sometimes the right thing to do is not the easiest thing. I fully understand and appreciate that you don't agree with his morals. But I am always taken aback by the absolute hate that liberals have for this man...ie the OP (even though she did not have all facts) I did not agree with but maybe 2 things Clinton ever did in eight years....and I think he is a cheatin lying pompous self-centered person. But I never disrespected him as my president. I truly believed he was doing what HE thought was best for the nation at every turn. You don't have to agree with or like the president. But he is still the President of the United States of America.

 

[my4kids]

And I'm not Christian,so why should your views of *life* trump mine?

They don't, just as yours don't trump mine.

 

[my4kids]

But many people in this country are - do their opinions not count?

No, of course they count! Just as mine does. That is why we have a ballot box.

 

[JennyMominRI]

They don't, just as yours don't trump mine.

If you support trying to enshrine your beliefs as law,then yours do trump mine

 

[my4kids]

If you support trying to enshrine your beliefs as law,then yours do trump mine

that trump mine becasue you want Your religious beliefs as law, even though I'm not your religion (a religion that I very much respect by the way - even though I don't agree with it)so then mine trump yours and the yours trump mine.and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny, what is the Jewish stance on rape victims, just curious. I do agree with the stance if the mother is in danger.

In the 2 movements which make up the vast majority of Jews yes. IN Orthodoxy it would be on a case to case basis and would depend on the degree of mental and emotonal trauma it would cause the women.. Orthodoy does sometimes recognize emotional or mental trauma as being detrimental to the life of the mother.

 

[my4kids]

no really, I'm going to bed now......I'm exaused from laughing at tonights south park episode.

 

[JennyMominRI]

that trump mine becasue you want Your religious beliefs as law, even though I'm not your religion (a religion that I very much respect by the way - even though I don't agree with it)so then mine trump yours and the yours trump mine.and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Well that depends...With you POV you could prevent Jews(or others) from getting abortions or using stem cells...My beliefs cannot force you into having an abortion,nor can they force you to use stem cells for research..

 

[JennyMominRI]

no really, I'm going to bed now......I'm exaused from laughing at tonights south park episode.

I wanted to watch that. I forgot

 

[Nancy]

I'm all for stem cell research. But, I think it should be privately funded or funded by the state where the research will take place. He didn't make stem cell research illegal (yet). He just said that the taxpayers shouldn't fund it with federal tax dollars. Maybe he had a different motive behind it (religion, no doubt), but I agree with the basic outcome, even if I don't agree with his reasoning and his motives.

You said exactly what I feel. I'm not opposed to the stem cell research, but I don't feel that it should be taxpayer funded.

 

[Donnie Baker]

I am glad he knocked it down.....stem cell research and cloning should not be allowed. I just feel like we are getting too deep into science.

I wonder if you'll feel the same way on your deathbed. after you find out whatever organ(s) that are failing could have been cloned from your own and transplanted.

 

[Kendra17]

If there is a valid reason to be against stem cell reason, I would like to know.

i generally don't post to political threads but i couldn't resist. you ask for a valid reason against stem cell research and i have one. the problem with stem cell research involves a "slippery slope".

essentially, the problem is this: if any successes, potential successes, or massive quantities of profit result from stem cell research involving fetuses (ie unborn humans) the result will be the harvesting of humans before birth so that the already born can benefit from the denial of life of those who are yet to be born. folks who take ethical positions on existence and human life in general tend to take a negative view on these kinds of things.

if one could make a valid defense of the medical establishment and medical ethics in particular (quite a difficult project, i'd think) which would reassure those who try to live morally (and consider human life and the life of unborn humans to be inherently valuable and special), the vehement opposition of religious folks and folks who oppose stem cell research on moral grounds might diminish, but i doubt it.

the goal to alleviate human suffering is a good one. nobody is arguing the point. the methods however are open to debate.

accusing those who oppose stem cell research and the potential harvesting of unborn humans of standing in the way of medical progress is simply oversimplifying a very complex debate. protection of the unborn is the foundation of any civilized society as is the protection of already born children, the sick, and the ill-prepared, etc.

stem cell research that requires the destruction of human fetuses is inherently immoral though the goal, development of life-saving medicines is not. this moral confusion is too much for most on the left to understand however, thus the ugliness of the debate.

have a nice day.

 

[Donnie Baker]

it is indeed a slippery slope. but if:

my wife and I conceive another child and stop the birth process it's our right.

if we do the same to harvest stem cells for another existing child in the case to preserve it's life it's wrong?

religion has bisected politics and laws in this country.

 

[Laura]

My beliefs cannot force you into having an abortion,nor can they force you to use stem cells for research..

Exactly. Nobody should be forced to do either. That's why I'm not pro-abortion, but pro-choice.

The whole idea of embryos' viability being as important as an adult human is a lovely thought and a nice "ideal", but it really goes no further than that. It's impractical, implausible, and, frankly, when it comes down to it nobody really believes it. Otherwise people wouldn't be for abortions when mothers' health or lives are risked by being pregnant.

 

[Virgo10]

I am glad he knocked it down.....stem cell research and cloning should not be allowed. I just feel like we are getting too deep into science.

Too deep into science? This is 2006 is it not? Maybe you'd want to plunge deeper into science if you had a loved one who suffers daily from an illness that stem cell research might help.

 

[arminnie]

a guy stating "it's not a contest" between adult stem cells and embryonic stem cells...the scientific community wants both kinds of research, believing that both could be beneficial. Embryonic stem cells can mature into any type of cell, that's why they are so important, although whether they will turn into the kind of cell we want them to, at the time and location we want them, is yet to be determined. That's my understanding of it.

It really depends on the RESEARCH that the scientist is doing. The ones who are doing research on embryonic cells want the MONEY to go to their projects.
The ones who are doing research on adult cells want the money for their projects. This is about MONEY.

 

[escape]

Do you really think Nancy Reagan or even Ronald Reagan would have supported stem cell research with embryo's if Ronnie didn't have alziemers

Would Bush have a different opinion if someone in his immediate family could benefit from stem cell research?