What is wrong with the Mayor of Baltimore?

[abk96]

You've got to be trolling if you think Fox News is giving you the unbiased truth above all other sources. There are international sources that are much more reliable than "the no spin zone".

I'm not talking about just that one show. The network as a whole is reliable. Do some research.

Trolling?? Is that slang for something sbout the news? I've been here on the Dis since 2005 so I don't think you mean I'm trolling here now do you?

Seems like you're the troll now doesn't it.

 

[sunshinehighway]

This is what could have happened. There's a wall where the man was taken into custody. I can easily see that he ran right into this wall with his bike and injured himself while turning the corner to escape the police. He was already injured when the police picked him off the ground and there were people there watching and didn't see any "brutality".

It can happen but I'm sure most of you won't believe it or even give it a thought.

So continue on with the bashing. But remember that this is still under investigation.

I just realized this, Gray wasn't on a bike. He was running.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

A couple of mainstream articles, one of which refers to the autopsy results. In the second, the family says he had surgery for the fractured verterbrae and a crushed larynx. Of course, the hospital can't comment at all without permission, so we only have these sources to go by.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ithout-force-or-incident-before-fatal-injury/

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

 

[TLSnell1981]

Wonder if this is true: http://thefourthestate.co/2015/04/b...ad-spine-surgery-just-one-week-before-arrest/

This link popped up a petition to oust a politician. It blocked the entire page and I couldn't read the article

 

[abk96]

Who are you talking to? There is no one here by that name.

If it's that important to you its lbi Jim.
Autocorrect changed it.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I'm not talking about just that one show. The network as a whole is reliable. Do some research.

Trolling?? Is that slang for something sbout the news? I've been here on the Dis since 2005 so I don't think you mean I'm trolling here now do you?

Your act is fun, but I'll just watch from a distance. It's pretty easy to see what you're doing.

 

[robinb]

If it's that important to you its lbi Jim.
Autocorrect changed it.

Thank you! That explains it. Darn autocorrect .

 

[abk96]

Your act is fun, but I'll just watch from a distance. It's pretty easy to see what you're doing.

Please explain? If you can that is.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This is what it says in one of the articles above.

“What we don’t know, and what we need to get to, is how that injury occurred,” Rodriguez said. He noted that “when Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk, he was upset, and when he was taken out of that van, he could not talk and he could not breathe.”

It seems there are at least three possiblities for what could have happened to Mr. Gray, and possibly more.

A) He could have been the victim of police brutality.

B) He could have had an unfortunate but non-deliberate accident in the van, and

C) He could have been recuperating from surgery and been told to rest and restrict movement and didn't, with devastating consequences.

From what I've read, they just don't have the answers yet. But any of these possibilities exist, as it stands now. Time will tell.

 

[sunshinehighway]

This is what it says in one of the articles above.


It seems there are at least three possiblities for what could have happened to Mr. Gray, and possibly more.

A) He could have been the victim of police brutality.

B) He could have had an unfortunate but non-deliberate accident in the van, and

C) He could have been recuperating from surgery and been told to rest and restrict movement and didn't, with devastating consequences.

From what I've read, they just don't have the answers yet. But any of these possibilities exist, as it stands now. Time will tell.

The bolded has no basis. That linked article has nothing to back it up. The court cases it was referring to have been widely reported to involve lead paint issues.

 

[cabanafrau]

A couple of mainstream articles, one of which refers to the autopsy results. In the second, the family says he had surgery for the fractured verterbrae and a crushed larynx. Of course, the hospital can't comment at all without permission, so we only have these sources to go by.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ithout-force-or-incident-before-fatal-injury/

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

Thanks. Those were interesting.

One of my biggest takeaways was that it seems there is video footage in the back of the van. I have yet to see any claims of witnessing any overt brutality. That doesn't mean police could not have caused his death, simply that there don't appear to be accounts of overt brutality. It may well be that what needs to come as a result of this case is changes in the way police restrain and then handle detainees It may well be that his death was caused by police officers who did not engage in brutal behavior and had no intent to harm the suspect, yet ultimately caused his death nonetheless. It may be that the video does indeed show brutality and the police have thus far kept the lid on that information. That possibility seems a little unlikely at this point, at least in my mind, for many reasons.

I don't take "sources" as anything than possible information leaks. "Sources" generally have an agenda or are being used by those with an agenda. If you don't name the source of the info, the telling of the info can be shaded and it's difficult to debunk.

I always take what an attorney for any party says as coming from someone with an agenda. They may be telling the absolute truth, they may be putting their spin out there. By the nature of their job, an attorney speaking about a case speaks on behalf of his client and therefore has a message to put out there to shape opinions about the outcome.

Once the autopsy is released as public record it should answer some questions. It may not answer the ultimate question, did police brutally cause his death, but it should answer some questions definitively.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The bolded has no basis. That linked article has nothing to back it up. The court cases it was referring to have been widely reported to involve lead paint issues.

I'm not sure what you mean by "nothing to back it up". Those were the words of the Deputy Police Commisioner who presumably, when interviewed, was telling what he knew about the case thus far, likely based on interviews, police reports, hospital records, etc.

"When Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk, he was upset, and when he was taken out of that van, he could not talk, he could not breathe." A summation of what was observed.

 

[abk96]

Just heard on the news that the mayor told the police to stand down even though they were being attacked with flying rocks.

What is the thinking here? If I had a loved one out there being hit with rocks I would want them to do everything they can to defend themselves.

This is not right.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm not sure what you mean by "nothing to back it up". Those were the words of the Deputy Police Commisioner who presumably, when interviewed, was telling what he knew about the case thus far, likely based on interviews, police reports, hospital records, etc.

"When Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk, he was upset, and when he was taken out of that van, he could not talk, he could not breathe." A summation of what was observed.

Personally, I raised an eyebrow at that particular statement myself and want to know what information exactly backs that up. If true, and if there is indeed video footage from the back of the van that shows no assault we may be looking at a situation where no one can give a definitive, objective and unbiased opinion exactly what caused this man's death. That will be an absolute disaster for the City of Baltimore and probably the country as well.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'm not sure what you mean by "nothing to back it up". Those were the words of the Deputy Police Commisioner who presumably, when interviewed, was telling what he knew about the case thus far, likely based on interviews, police reports, hospital records, etc.

"When Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk, he was upset, and when he was taken out of that van, he could not talk, he could not breathe." A summation of what was observed.

I thought I bolded the part about having surgery.
That's the part I was talking about. There's been nothing legitimate to suggest he was recuperating from surgery.

I see the confusion now. I meant what I bolded in quoting you, not what you had bolded.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Thanks. Those were interesting.

One of my biggest takeaways was that it seems there is video footage in the back of the van. I have yet to see any claims of witnessing any overt brutality. That doesn't mean police could not have caused his death, simply that there don't appear to be accounts of overt brutality. It may well be that what needs to come as a result of this case is changes in the way police restrain and then handle detainees It may well be that his death was caused by police officers who did not engage in brutal behavior and had no intent to harm the suspect, yet ultimately caused his death nonetheless. It may be that the video does indeed show brutality and the police have thus far kept the lid on that information. That possibility seems a little unlikely at this point, at least in my mind, for many reasons.

I don't take "sources" as anything than possible information leaks. "Sources" generally have an agenda or are being used by those with an agenda. If you don't name the source of the info, the telling of the info can be shaded and it's difficult to debunk.

I always take what an attorney for any party says as coming from someone with an agenda. They may be telling the absolute truth, they may be putting their spin out there. By the nature of their job, an attorney speaking about a case speaks on behalf of his client and therefore has a message to put out there to shape opinions about the outcome.

Once the autopsy is released as public record it should answer some questions. It may not answer the ultimate question, did police brutally cause his death, but it should answer some questions definitively.

I think the bolded is an important point. They've already said procedures weren't followed in handling Gray.
Whether his injuries are the result of police brutality or some freak occurrence, there are policing issues which can and should be addressed.

 

[gwynne]

I'm not sure what you mean by "nothing to back it up". Those were the words of the Deputy Police Commisioner who presumably, when interviewed, was telling what he knew about the case thus far, likely based on interviews, police reports, hospital records, etc.

"When Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk, he was upset, and when he was taken out of that van, he could not talk, he could not breathe." A summation of what was observed.

I'll add this from The Guardian.
"Batts confirmed that Gray, who was in leg irons, was not wearing a seatbelt in the vehicle as required by the department’s policy. “There are no excuses for that. Period,” he said. Past prisoners in Baltimore have died from injuries sustained when they were thrown around the back of police vehicles due to fast or erratic driving and abrupt stops."

The article goes on to say.....

"Davis said Gray said he needed a medic during a third stop by the van, made to pick up a second prisoner, but an ambulance was not called until 25 minutes later, after the vehicle arrived at police headquarters. Batts told reporters that during the third stop, officers “picked him up off the floor and placed him on a seat”.

So it sounds like we do have confirmation that he was deliberately left to bounce around the vehicle.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...backtrack-over-possible-explanation-for-death

 

[luvsJack]

So if nothing else, the PD is guilty of not getting him medical help and leaving him in a dangerous situation in the back of the van. So while they may not have beat him up, they are still responsible for his death.

We can't keep looking at these things and saying "well, you shouldn't get arrested" or "you shouldn't get pulled over" or "he shouldn't have run". None of those things give the police the right to endanger your life. People are arrested all the time without being convicted of a thing, do those people deserve to die because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time or accused of something they didn't do? Would you want your child, your husband, your brother or your friend treated in this manner?

I don't agree with the rioters in what they are doing, but like the gang bangers said, I sure do understand their anger.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

(Written before the posts after my last were read.)

The thing that keeps coming into my mind, though, is the "rough rides" we learned about during all of this.

If he did have issues with his neck/spinal column (or even if he didn't), and was unrestrained in a van that was deliberately driven roughly, and his head fell against the side of the van wall, say, then that certainly may have caused the injuries that were seen (IMO).

I sure hope that wasn't the case. But again, time will tell, hopefully.

I think there does have to be an overhaul of the way police operate if they have a culture of mistreatment. Body cameras were a good start.

I also think there needs to be some changes in the African American community, as well. For one thing, they need a great leader again, one who is respected by all. And I don't mean a president, who is spread so thin; I mean someone whose sole job it is to bring everyone together for the common good.

Nobody's mentioned it here (that I saw) but I think the entertainment industry also needs to play a part here, too. They are selling things like violence and sex for ratings and it has an effect on impressionable people.

Bill Cosby, current troubles notwithstanding, gave a speech during an NAACP awards ceremony back in 2004 that was widely criticized at the time. But let's re-look at what he had to say. (I believe there was another black celebrity more recently who essentially said the same thing, and was also criticized, but I can't remember who it was.)

The Pound Cake Speech:

http://www.cbn.com/tv/1398877690001

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Cake_speech

 

[Dakota731]

They all have a large minority population.

So do Indianapolis, San Diego, Albuquerque, and Mesa. And what about New York City? But because of leaders in that city over the years getting tough on crime, drugs and "welfare to work", NYC is now much safer than other large cities and a great place to work and visit.
But if Democratic leaders just keep throwing millions more dollars into these cities (which is what Obama suggested this morning) for welfare and more dependency programs which has proved the past 50 years not to work so why not try something new?
I recommend a great book (true story) The Invisible Thread which a white woman befriends a young black man through the years and helps him get an education. This young man had never KNOWN ANYONE IN HIS LIFE BEFORE THAT HAD A JOB! His brothers, uncles even his grandma were all on welfare and sold drugs. This is the life we are propitiating for young blacks in this country instead of education, work and supporting the children they father. Throwing more money at the problem is not going to help until a change in attitude and responsibility occurs.