What is China like, for visiting kids?

[Poohforyou]

Yes. In fact, if you want them to grow up to be bilingual, it's pretty much the only way to do it.

That isn't true. Actually it is very easy for a young child to learn 2 languages at once. I have several friends as well as family members where the kids are bi-lingual by learning both languages at home.

 

[chimilady]

That isn't true. Actually it is very easy for a young child to learn 2 languages at once. I several friends as well as family members where the kids are bi-lingual by learning both languages at home.

I was going to say this, commonly known as One parent, one language. Kid talks to mom in one, dad in the other.

 

[PelletierBears]

That isn't true. Actually it is very easy for a young child to learn 2 languages at once. I have several friends as well as family members where the kids are bi-lingual by learning both languages at home.

That's how I would imagine it worked : ) A co-worker of mine married someone from overseas and she spoke to her kids in both english and spanish.

End result is the same though in the long run I suppose.

 

[bumbershoot]

Air quality in Beijing is close to being worst in the world, if it isn't already. It is truly awful. Do some google searches on air quality there.

Yes. DH travels for work, and he works with some guys who don't have sensitivities or allergies or any ecological concerns whatsoever, and as soon as they breathed the air in Beijing they went and bought some serious face masks with air filters, just like the Chinese wear there. It was horrendous air.

I am prone to asthma, and I doubt I'll ever go there. It's just too scary.

Are your kids adventurous eaters (will they eat anything put in front of them)?
I have been served chicken feet and lips (no kidding).

From Dh's experiences growing up in Asia and traveling there as an adult, I would agree that that is important. Unless he grilled people, they just woudn't tell him what was in the meals, they liked surprising him (like with dog-meat soup in Taiwan), and even if he was told what things were, he didn't 100% believe them. And he speaks Chinese. But still, the food thing is tough.

Since the OP's children are veggie, well, I'm an adult with a husband who speaks Chinese, and even if the air quality got better, unless I were staying at a Buddhist monastery, I wouldn't trust that food was veggie. And I know full well that there are PLENTY of Buddhists who eat meat every day, so even a Buddhist restaurant might not think twice about fish sauce.

I'd say let them go. Make sure she brings her epipen. They will have two adults with them as well as the extended family when they are in the village.

Her epipen? How about dozens? How many epipens do you bring to make SURE you have enough for such a trigger-filled trip?

Yes. In fact, if you want them to grow up to be bilingual, it's pretty much the only way to do it.

It's a good way, and I personally don't think it's horrible that a 2.5 year old apparently only speaks one language. After all, my son was barely speaking his ONE language at 2, yet he's fine now.

But it's not the only way. Plenty of kids pick up two at once when around two languages. My aunt had friends who were raised in a bilingual household...their parents spoke English and their grandparents (who lived with them) spoke Polish. The grands lived upstairs, and my aunt said that her friends would switch languages as they went up the stairs in anticipation of interacting with their grandparents.

What doesn't work well is when the not-fluent parent tries to speak English and the English-speaking parent isn't around. That's what happened in DH's family. His mom thought she would ruin their English if she spoke Korean, and his dad was in the Navy/MerchantMarines/shipping business and was away most of the time, so the kids grew up fluent in "Konglish", but not Korean OR English. School helped with the English and visits to Korea helped with the Korean, but most of the time they just weren't fluent in either. MIL still hasn't learned, and refuses to speak Korean to her grandchildren even though they want her to. Sigh.

I think you have 2 entirely separate issues here. First is, "Do I let my children go to China at all? Is it safe for them in general, is it healthy for them in general, etc". The second is, "If I decide that China as a country is someplace I'm ok with my children being, am I ok with them being with their dad and the new woman and their child?"

From what it sounds like, the father is trusting the wife/gf (I'm not sure which she is) on all things about this trip and he won't put in any type of research about what its like for non native visitors. That he'll say "Oh we're with her so it's all good."

You say that he's not the greatest father to the kids in their "normal" life, so that leads me to believe its not going to change over there. I doubt the kids would be accepted or get any attention from the new wife/gf's family especially since there's a baby in the mix that's actually related to them going. I'm not trying to stereotype here, but I just doubt in a rural setting and upbring that will fly with them.

A trip to China probably sounds amazing to your kids, especially since it's been hyped up to them over the years and they might be thinking "OK cool trip with daddy finally!" but they can't logically think this through. Let me ask you this OP...do your kids ever call you when they're with their dad and say they want to come home? Can they go for long lengths of time without talking to you? If they go, they'll be in it for the long haul.

In the same vein, can the father deal with them for the whole length of the trip? How long is he used to having them vs how long this proposed trip will be? Is he going to get annoyed or resentful having them along?

I think you have to set aside some of the emotional stuff here and look at the more factual things. If you think he can safely take care of them and they would have fun, maybe you need to step aside and let them go. If you think they'd truly be in danger, or that the family dynamic over there would kind of exclude your kids, that's different.

I agree with everything, especially what I bolded. Knowing how DH was treated in Asia (and he's lived in Korea, China, Singapore, and Taiwan (yes I know China feels Taiwan is China, but Taiwan doesn't) and how he is treated even as an adult traveling on business there now, even as someone who is half Asian), there will not be acceptance of your kids.

And about the father dealing with them, omg such a good point. My dad did visitations more than it sounds OP's ex does, but even he couldn't handle anything out of the ordinary. I once got sick on a weekend visit, and he made my mom come get me in the middle of the night. He couldn't handle it at all. When he came to us with grand plans to take me (not my brother, just me) to Guatemala, my mom nixed it fast. He didn't have any sort of background in actually being able to CARE for us, he just *watched* us, so there was no chance that we were going out of the country with him.


Wait until they are adults. He can start saving now for a grand tour then.

 

[CoffeeCup]

I realize this is completely off topic as to whether or not the OP should let her children visit China with their dad (I would vote, "no", by the way), but I can't pass up the opportunity to comment on the opinions as to how to raise a bilingual child. I don't know how we got to a discussion of bilingual children, but some of you are offering information that is not true. I am a World Language/English as a Second Language/Limited English Proficiency teacher, and I have taught those subjects for over 40 years. I have a strong background in language acquisition, and I have experience teaching k-12 as well as adults.

It is not a good idea to teach a child living in the US to use only his native language at home (assuming his native language is not English) and wait for him to pick up English in kindergarten. Yes, young children absorb languges easily, and he will be able to speak English after a few months of school, but he will have missed out on developing the necessary literacy skills a child needs to begin reading and writing in kindergarten. He may have a bilingual speaking ability, but he may never develop bilingual literacy skills. I teach many high school students who were born in the US, heard and used only their native language until they started school, and who remain in an ESL/LEP program until they graduate, or more likelly, quit school. These students grew up watching TV programs in English, they received extra help starting in pre-k or k, but their literacy skills are low even after years of ESL instruction. I the parents can't speak English, it is unavoidable, but it would be irresponsible for a parent to make the choice to speak only the native language at home if he/she also could speak English. A truly bilingual child learns two or more languages from birth/very early childhood.

I have seen many young children learn multiple languages, including English, and these are the very fortunate children. I knew one child around 2 years old, who was learning to speak Italian, French, Spanish and English and who understood 11 different language even though he couldn't speak all of them. Everyone in his family spoke multiple languges, they lived in Europe, and they were surrounded by well-educated people who spoke multiple languages. This would be rare in the US, but it isn't too unusual in other countries.

Young children have the ability to learn to speak and to understand whatever languages they hear by imitating. They may not develop the ability to read and write in those languages, but they can speak them with ease. The human brain lateralizes with the onset of puberty, and language acquisiton becomes a very different process. I doubt you want a complete explanation of how the brain acquires language at different stages in life, but please don't advise people to speak only one language at home with young children and wait for the child to learn English when he starts school. The child will become bilingual for speaking purposes, but he likely will not be as successful in school as he would have been if he had learned English along with his native language. Okay, off my soapbox now.

 

[ceecee]

Sounds too dangerous to me at 8 and 12. Seriously, I would think they would enjoy it more at an older age such as late teens. Food is a real consideration, the language, money and yes the air. People are everywhere, so crowded and not as clean as we are used to. You should explain to your DD that her father takes her half sister to China because she is part Chinese AND probably has family there that she would not get to see otherwise. Don't let them think it's just a vacation. Especially with allergies, you can't be too careful. You don't know what's in the food and especially with the language barrier it could prove very dangerous.

 

[SarahKate]

I personally think a China trip would be awesome. BUT I totally agree with others who are saying no to it.

There's the issue of whether you really trust your ex to keep them as safe as possible.

As others have said, use of an epi pen requires a trip to the hospital.

Driving in parts of China not safe. Driving has not been a main mode of transportation in China as long as it has been here in the states and it can be quite unsafe.

Air quality terrible. Think about our country a hundred yrs ago and the black haze over cities And that's what you have in china. 16 of 20 of the worlds worst polluted cities are in China. They still use coal to heat homes, pollution from plants and of course all the millions of cars that weren't there 10-20 yrs ago. Their pollution even reaches the US.

Your kids may be upset with you. But you are the mom and I don't think you would be at all overprotective for keeping them home.

 

[writersblock42]

I've lived in China (a long time ago now) and I have gone back and visited. I am shocked that people are saying that it is unsafe, boring, and and not child friendly. Chinese people are some of the most child friendly people that I know. They have tons of activities that cater to children and there is so much to see and do. I personally would not drive in China but there are trains, buses and it is fairly cheap to pay a driver. Because the wife is from China, she will be able to navigate the country and speak the language.
The air quality is poor but it depends on the part of China and the season.
It is also very safe. The Chinese people will not hurt an American child. You have more to worry about in the US than in China.

 

[MomofM&M]

My mom has been telling my oldest DD1, almost 11 yo, for the past two years that she would take her back to Taiwan. DD1 spends Christmas and then one week during the summer with my parents. I also have an 8 yo DD and having been on the airplane trip to Taiwan as a 7 yo, I knew there was no way I would send her to Taiwan with my mom. She would get so bored and my mom and I both knew that even though she thought she wanted to go with my mom and her sister, she wouldn't be able to handle the traveling or be old enough not to get too homesick and be miserable. My eldest had a great time but I think part of it was that I knew her temperament and that there was only a slight chance that she would get homesick. She just got back this week and although she was gone for a little over a week, she was crying and wanting to come home the day before she was to return. She had a blast and was exposed to so much culture but towards the end, even with being with her grandma, she felt a little isolated. With the exception of the village that she went to for the Lantern Festival, she spent most of her time in industrialized areas. She speaks only a little Taiwanese and the thing that made her feel so isolated and homesick was the fact that all her great aunts would be sitting around talking in Taiwanese and she couldn't understand any of the conversation. I think that is something that you would really need to think about. I didn't think language would be much of a problem since most of my aunts speak some English. One lives in Hawaii and she was the one who entertained my daughter the most. But she couldn't be around her all the time so my concern would be for your daughters when they are at the small village where no one except her dad, and stepmom will speak English. Culturally, it is going to be very different. Get ready for lots of stares and pointing, maybe even some touching as personal space is a foreign concept to the Chinese,(Just try public transportation and you will see), especially if your daughter is fair haired. I remember going to Taiwan as a young child and then revolting and refusing to eat any more Chinese food. ( I know, I was a brat) That was with me eating my mom's Taiwanese cooking everyday in the US! I prepped my daughter a lot to get her ready but it was based on what I remember visiting for the first time. Definitely, don't send them if they are wanderers. I got lost in a department store as a child and when they asked me to write my mom's name so they could read it over the loudspeaker, I could only write it in English. Luckily, I was with my cousin who could write her mom's name in Chinese. A trip to China is always a great opportunity but there are just so many things to consider and I hope some of my experiences can help with your decision making. Good luck!

 

[cheer25mom]

Nothing approaching modern medical care? There are modern hospitals in every decent sized city, and China has tons of decent sized cities. Some of the newer, high end housing developments in wealthier areas even have their own, on-site hospitals. I toured a few. I also toured a gigantic, high-tech cancer research center in Nanning.

I agree about your ex driving, but hiring a driver is pretty inexpensive.

You can find Buddhist restaurants in major cities that specialize in vegetarian dishes. Otherwise, expect stealth pork in food even if you've specified you don't want meat. We took a couple of vegetarians on one trip I went on, and we had to make it very clear to them that they would be served meat at some point, no matter how much we requested otherwise.

Only in a handful of major cities,and I get the impression that is NOT where the OPs kids would be staying. I was speaking to my parents experience in the majority of places they vidited. There are many, many places in China where it is an entire days teavel or more to a hospital. Not a risk I would be willing to take with an allergy kid. The vast majority of China is rural, poor, and isolated.

 

[tantoria2]

The EX is the major consideration. Is he a vigilant parent in relation to the food issues etc..
Our youngest is adopted from China. We were there for about a month and loved it! Is the food weird...to us yes. Is there pollution...yep...and LOTS of other things we ( as Americans) are not used to, but that is EXACTLY why it is so amazing. The cultural differences along with the geography etc will expand your girls world view in a way that can NEVER be recreated from a textbook, documentary, or classroom

 

[SarahKate]

I've lived in China (a long time ago now) and I have gone back and visited. I am shocked that people are saying that it is unsafe, boring, and and not child friendly. Chinese people are some of the most child friendly people that I know. They have tons of activities that cater to children and there is so much to see and do. I personally would not drive in China but there are trains, buses and it is fairly cheap to pay a driver. Because the wife is from China, she will be able to navigate the country and speak the language.
The air quality is poor but it depends on the part of China and the season.
It is also very safe. The Chinese people will not hurt an American child. You have more to worry about in the US than in China.

I don't think any of the posts have eluded to the high potential of a child being harmed by the Chinese people. But this mom has VERY valid concerns for questioning whether she should let them go. Even if they are mature for their ages, they are still kids. And if an emergency arises, what will happen? Will the not so responsible dad know exactly what to do? We already know this about the dad and that one of the kids has health related issues, which could TOTALLY be exacerbated by China's pollution or by something she might eat.

And I'm not saying that these kids should never go to China, but I think that maybe just give it a few years. The kids will be even more mature and more readily able to handle it. China will always be there! It's not like it's a once in a lifetime trip as it would be for someone else - OP said that her ex and family go there once a yr.

 

[PHXscuba]

Depending on how long your daughters will be in a rural village, they may feel very isolated. Likely their father will be the only person they can talk with. The food will be very different and who knows about the allergies.

I think I agree with the other people that the issue isn't China as much as their father. If he starts talking seriously about it, I'd have a very frank talk about what his plans are and how he would handle anything that happened. And "my wife would handle it" isn't an acceptable answer. His wife may not like the idea of toting two stepkids around China, which might break the deal before it ever got anywhere.

I think it would make a great trip once your daughters were older and able to advocate for themselves more. But with all the obstacles you have mentioned, 8 is too young.

PHXscuba

 

[leebee]

I think they are too young to travel so far, to such a culturally different area. My sister and BIL adopted from China in 2001, when their bio-daughter was 4. Their adoption agency advised against bringing the 4 year old to China for the adoption, so BIL traveled with his father. Reasons included horrible air quality and unsafe water... as in, don't open your eyes in the shower, much less your mouth, even in the bigger cities. My sister felt this wasn't something she could monitor in a 4 yo. They also discussed the huge cultural differences- not just food and language, but lack of personal space/privacy, personal habits that are both unsanitary and disturbing for younger kids to witness (adults spitting/voiding/etc on the streets, for example), touching/pointing, etc... and that was just in the big cities. They were warned that most of China is seriously 3rd world.. not dangerous, just terribly different and challenging for seasoned adult travelers, much less children. My sis and bil have never regretted not taking a 4 yo to China. Heck, I have a friend who took her 13 year old to rural China and said there were quite a few times when she questioned whether this had been a wise idea (and they were there to visit a much older sibling who was working as a teacher in a western Chinese village).

The dad concerns me too, mostly because it seems he is NOT an involved dad, but rather a "watcher" dad. If he doesn't handle minor things while they are here, don't send them to China with him... or anywhere else that your kids will be isolated, too far away to return if necessary, etc. I'd also worry about food. We here in the US turn ourselves inside out over food allergies, but most other countries do NOT. When we were in France with a group of teens, I cannot tell you how many times people thought "vegetarian" meant no hunks of beef or pork in the meal, but didn't include chicken or fish, much less broths based on beef, pork, fish, or poultry, as being not acceptable for a vegetarian diet. Fish sauce is a commonly used ingredient in Asian cooking... and your dd has a fish allergy. Enough said.

Talk to your girls and tell them they need to wait until they are older. They'll be upset, but as the new wife and child are from China, there will be other trips for your girls to go along on, when they are older, more able to handle the challenges of international travel, and more independent/less dependent on adult support (as in, dad not being hands-on).

 

[Jen_in_NH]

I think the biggest issue is whether Dad can take care of the girls for that long, that far away.

We brought our 5 year old son to China this past spring when we adopted our 2 year old. He was a trooper for the plane ride, and had a blast while we were there. There is so much to see and do, and many things are so different from home, and he loved it. We did a lot of research into medical care there, as he has type 1 diabetes, and we needed to be prepared if anything went wrong. We did buy really good travel medical insurance that would fly him and one of us back to the US if he needed to be admitted, but that wouldn't help too much for a kiddo with allergy issues.

As far as the air, we went around Memorial Day, and it wasn't too bad. Beijing was a bit polluted, but we live in the woods, so we figured we would notice that a lot. Not nearly as bad as others have found it to be, but it definitely depends on the time of year you are there.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

I wouldn't worry as the Chinese are a great bunch of lads