What cool member perks could DVC realistically offer?

[Dean]

I stand corrected, very limited is a better term. Once a contracted is sold new, Disney has a owner for the life of the contract. Even when someone sells, they are replaced with someone else. Not much of an incentive for Disney to give owners benefits.

Bill

You say it like this is wrong, IMO it's all that we bought. Remember that most perks are zero cost to DVC and those that aren't are a sales tactic to some degree or another. Also remember that there were 2 parties to the contract, a seller and a buyer. We all put ourselves in the position of creating an ownership for the life of the contract when we signed up whether we were the original owners or a resale buyer. The reality is they don't have much incentive other than sales related though some of it is secondary. The best perks from Disney's standpoint are the ones that people see and put value in but have no real cost to the system. Plus they have to function within the Disney culture. Historically they haven't been willing to ruffle any feathers for the benefit of the membership even when they could and likely should have. If they slow down or stop sales in the future expect even more negative changes in these areas.

 

[Brian Noble]

It's a hard reality when Disney and DVC marketing makes us feel like we are special. Understanding the reality better positions us to get the most from our relationship with Disney while getting the best vacation value.

Bill

I often say this, but it bears repeating. Disney makes its money by selling happiness. That's not quite the same as "Disney wants me to be happy." Most people do not understand the difference, and when they finally understand it, it can be quite disappointing. However, once you get to the other side of that disappointment, you quickly realize that patronizing a company selling happiness isn't so bad!

 

[Sammie]

That is not an apples to apples comparison (200,000 to 20 million), how many FL residents have annual passes to WDW? I can't find the answer.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying, that they don't care. This thread was about what they could realistically offer, and realistically they COULD offer it, they used to give free annual passes to DVC members in the beginning. They realistically COULD do a lot of things.

I think they are now actively trying to reduce the number of passholders, the new system, while it does give free parking to all the lower tiers, it is adding block out dates to what used to be the full annual pass level, which is taking away benefits, the only true annual pass is now the Premium annual pass. They are now adding some photo pass benefits that seem to be a throwaway, probably to encourage spending on photo pass merch.

The amount of people does matter to Disney parks because Florida resident offers, that is their target group, 2 million. DVC is so much smaller, we are not even on the radar.


The thing is I don't think they realistically could. Comparing what DVC can and do now and what they were able to offer when they were the new kid on the block is like comparing the cost of products now with those in '91. DVC was an unknown then and giving passes for a certain time period was a good carrot. That is not necessary now.

 

[brertoad]

I hear what you are saying. And I get all that, I understand that they have a monopoly on their brand, they don't need to do anything and people will still come.
It may eventually get to a point where they price themselves out of a lot of potential customers' reach, and I can see Universal Studios taking a portion (albeit a small portion of those on the cusp) of their market share in the next 10-20 years.

Regardless of what they do or don't give us, I still will get the long term benefits of being a DVC owner = saving $$$ on hotel accommodations, anything else is just icing on the cake.

I could imagine this conversation in a Disney board room, and ultimately someone is going to say - we don't have to give them anything, yet when they are selling points at $168/pp they have to make it appealing to new buyers somehow. I wonder what they are going to do after they sell out of Poly and Aulani?

 

[Dean]

The amount of people does matter to Disney parks because Florida resident offers, that is their target group, 2 million. DVC is so much smaller, we are not even on the radar.


The thing is I don't think they realistically could. Comparing what DVC can and do now and what they were able to offer when they were the new kid on the block is like comparing the cost of products now with those in '91. DVC was an unknown then and giving passes for a certain time period was a good carrot. That is not necessary now.

The other difference is DVC members will have to go or else someone else will be in the villa's in their place. For FL residents they're trying to lure them in esp during the slower times hence the reason for ticket and other blackouts.

I hear what you are saying. And I get all that, I understand that they have a monopoly on their brand, they don't need to do anything and people will still come.
It may eventually get to a point where they price themselves out of a lot of potential customers' reach, and I can see Universal Studios taking a portion (albeit a small portion of those on the cusp) of their market share in the next 10-20 years.

Regardless of what they do or don't give us, I still will get the long term benefits of being a DVC owner = saving $$$ on hotel accommodations, anything else is just icing on the cake.

I could imagine this conversation in a Disney board room, and ultimately someone is going to say - we don't have to give them anything, yet when they are selling points at $168/pp they have to make it appealing to new buyers somehow. I wonder what they are going to do after they sell out of Poly and Aulani?

From a dollar standpoint I think they crossed over that line some time ago. Some complain but many steam ahead including paying double to get the newest resorts with more points on top of that. Propping up the perks isn't the only option they have. They can be more aggressive getting people in to tour and they can be more aggressive during the sales process and with enticements to current members like extension with an add on. The don't need to sell to everyone only a small subset. IMO they have only dipped their toe in the water from a sales efficiency standpoint.

 

[Brian Noble]

when they are selling points at $168/pp they have to make it appealing to new buyers somehow.

This is easy. You're a WDW guest, maybe on your first or second trip, having the time of your life. The friendly DVC kiosk CM tells you that you could bottle that vacation magic feeling forever, "and lock in years of future vacations at today's prices." This is already how the vast majority of DVC points are sold.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

I would like to see special roped off viewing areas for DVC members at parades, fireworks, etc. Currently these are available via fast pass. I think it would not be difficult to add another for DVC. Maybe limit it to the first 500 people who show up.

 

[iwannbindisnee]

Yea, will be ordering mine. Had you already seen this? Rest assured some nonDVC members will not like this and many DVC members will think they should be mailed to them free.

Can I get a bigger picture of these bands? I cannot tell any details?!

 

[TiggerBouncy]

So reading thorough this thread, and looking back at DVC Memberships, there is one thing here that I think y'all are missing.

You are looking at it from the wrong angle. you're looking at "DVC can't make money by offering this perk". But if you look at the perks, Disney execs are looking at it the other way. DVC is an largely untapped resource for them to MAKE money. How?

Senses not booking enough? Offer discounts to DVC members.
DCL not booking? Offer discounts to DVC members
Restaurants having trouble at springs? DVC to the rescue!
Hoop Dee Doo having trouble? 20% off to DVC!

You need to approach this from the opposite side. it's not that Disney feels the need to offer something to DVC members to keep them happy (as we have established they don't). But they also realize that DVC members are inherently Disney fans with purchasing potential that are inclined to visit the parks. the perks are not to decrease profits from those activities, but increase or fill a gap in sales.

Someone said they could see a board room meeting where someone says they don't have to give us anything. Here is a different board room meeting: "How can we increase sales of yellow fluffy bears?" DVC: "Let's offer our members a discount and put heavy advertising on them in the DVC resorts". Visa: "We'll take some of that actions, too. Discounts for visa holders". D23: " Hey... don't hog! We want some!" etc...

Just look at the perks right now and you can see it:
https://dvcmember.disney.go.com/news
Free advertising for Senses and 9 dragons this month. Who wants to bet 9 dragons had a few empty seats going around that with the help of DVC and possible perks thorough other avenues are closing up?

 

[jerseyduke]

I honestly don't know it is a sticky wicket. I don't think many members realize that discounts given to DVC from other division such as tickets have to be paid for by DVC or negotiated for. DVC just can't call up tickets and say give us a discount. It is a lengthy process and honestly the other division probably see no gain in it to them.

As Rob said the division they are negotiating with be it tickets, or dining, or park operations have to agree and see some benefit to them.

They can't pay for any of these perks with member dues, yet again many members wrongly think they do, so the cost of the perks have to come from DVC operating budget. If they do many perks they would have to make cuts somewhere else, in Members Services or something similar.

You have to think of each division within Disney, parks, food, tickets, transportation, DVC, as their own business with their own budget and their own goals. Just because it says Disney does not mean they are directly connected. The competition between divisions is great.

How much difference is there? Parks, food, tickets, hotel rooms are all under the Parks and Resorts vertical within Disney, and get reported together in SEC filings. I am sure it gets divided down further, each with a separate P&L, but in the end, DVC is part of the parks and resorts business unit, and its profits (or losses...yea....right) are reported under Parks and resorts.

 

[Dean]

So reading thorough this thread, and looking back at DVC Memberships, there is one thing here that I think y'all are missing.

You are looking at it from the wrong angle. you're looking at "DVC can't make money by offering this perk". But if you look at the perks, Disney execs are looking at it the other way. DVC is an largely untapped resource for them to MAKE money. How?

Senses not booking enough? Offer discounts to DVC members.
DCL not booking? Offer discounts to DVC members
Restaurants having trouble at springs? DVC to the rescue!
Hoop Dee Doo having trouble? 20% off to DVC!

You need to approach this from the opposite side. it's not that Disney feels the need to offer something to DVC members to keep them happy (as we have established they don't). But they also realize that DVC members are inherently Disney fans with purchasing potential that are inclined to visit the parks. the perks are not to decrease profits from those activities, but increase or fill a gap in sales.

Someone said they could see a board room meeting where someone says they don't have to give us anything. Here is a different board room meeting: "How can we increase sales of yellow fluffy bears?" DVC: "Let's offer our members a discount and put heavy advertising on them in the DVC resorts". Visa: "We'll take some of that actions, too. Discounts for visa holders". D23: " Hey... don't hog! We want some!" etc...

Just look at the perks right now and you can see it:
https://dvcmember.disney.go.com/news
Free advertising for Senses and 9 dragons this month. Who wants to bet 9 dragons had a few empty seats going around that with the help of DVC and possible perks thorough other avenues are closing up?

Unless they tie perks to some type of sales direction, DVD isn't going to make anything. Other Disney companies might over time and thus the incentive to give some of the perks we now have. The DDP is this way in large part. The other way they can do it is as a sales incentive like the free passes for OKW & VB early on.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Found something else interesting. For those claiming that DVC doesn't owe us anything but rooms, that's actually NOT TRUE. THEY DO owe us benefits above the actual rooms. Don't believe me?
As owners, we are privy to the financial statements of our properties. Did you bother to read one? Look at this little line (this one is from BLT):
Cost Component 2016 Budget Budget / point
Member Activities (not sure if I can post) 0.2161

Still have doubts? Read the description:
11. Member Activities - Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort. Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings.

Translation: We pay .21 cents for every point for benefits which include the newsletter, postage, and recreational and membership activities. Right now those become a host of activities like the campfires, movies, whatever. However any thoughts that those are done to attract members and we don't deserve them are flat out wrong. The simple fact is we are paying for those, and if they take those activities away, they are required to replace them with something of equal value or reduce the amount we are paying into that line item.

And no - I am not someone who believes in entitlement. However, I have do believe in fair value for fair value. By the same token, if we want more benefits, there is no reason at all we can't start a petition to bring up at the next association meeting (they are open forum, and anyone can attend) to increase our price to - for example - .3 cents / share for increased services. Of course, DVC would then have to vote on it (and the mouse has a 51% share of the vote). they would certainly want to do their due diligence in making sure that the vast majority of owners are in support of the increased dues. However I would chance to say that if DVC heard an overwhelming cry in relation, the mouse wouldn't block the other voters for pure reason of Public Relations.

And finally to those saying that once the DVC stuff is sold, they have no incentive to keep us happy - one other reminder. They have their jobs. They are a board of directors, and they can be voted out (by us as the active owners). As mentioned again, the mouse does hold 51% of the active voting, but for the same reason stated (public relations) if an overwhelming majority of the owners vote no confidence in the board of directors, DVD would have a PR nightmare on their hands if they overrode the membership which I highly doubt they would.

Anyway... my 2 cents.

 

[Dean]

Found something else interesting. For those claiming that DVC doesn't owe us anything but rooms, that's actually NOT TRUE. THEY DO owe us benefits above the actual rooms. Don't believe me?
As owners, we are privy to the financial statements of our properties. Did you bother to read one? Look at this little line (this one is from BLT):
Cost Component 2016 Budget Budget / point
Member Activities (not sure if I can post) 0.2161

Still have doubts? Read the description:
11. Member Activities - Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort. Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings.

Translation: We pay .21 cents for every point for benefits which include the newsletter, postage, and recreational and membership activities. Right now those become a host of activities like the campfires, movies, whatever. However any thoughts that those are done to attract members and we don't deserve them are flat out wrong. The simple fact is we are paying for those, and if they take those activities away, they are required to replace them with something of equal value or reduce the amount we are paying into that line item.

And no - I am not someone who believes in entitlement. However, I have do believe in fair value for fair value. By the same token, if we want more benefits, there is no reason at all we can't start a petition to bring up at the next association meeting (they are open forum, and anyone can attend) to increase our price to - for example - .3 cents / share for increased services. Of course, DVC would then have to vote on it (and the mouse has a 51% share of the vote). they would certainly want to do their due diligence in making sure that the vast majority of owners are in support of the increased dues. However I would chance to say that if DVC heard an overwhelming cry in relation, the mouse wouldn't block the other voters for pure reason of Public Relations.

And finally to those saying that once the DVC stuff is sold, they have no incentive to keep us happy - one other reminder. They have their jobs. They are a board of directors, and they can be voted out (by us as the active owners). As mentioned again, the mouse does hold 51% of the active voting, but for the same reason stated (public relations) if an overwhelming majority of the owners vote no confidence in the board of directors, DVD would have a PR nightmare on their hands if they overrode the membership which I highly doubt they would.

Anyway... my 2 cents.

Those could be eliminated but when I say rooms I would include the management of the resort itself just like it were a non DVC timeshare. Certainly it's a good idea for them to not rock the boat where possible but members have proven you can't keep all of them happy. The entitlement mentality is alive and well in 2016 in general but on steroids with DVC members in part because they feel since their invested financially they are entitled to more than they actually are. I'd suggest there's a difference between running the resort well (which is questionable in some areas now) and continuing to woo members beyond the resort level. Legally a room is all they are required to provide. As for voting them out technically it's possible but not practical, there really isn't a way to do it. You'd likely have to pay for them to do mailings to the membership to get access.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Legally a room is all they are required to provide.

No. It's not. Again, look at the financial statement.

when I say rooms I would include the management of the resort itself just like it were a non DVC timeshare.

Cost Components 2016 budget per point
Administration and Front Desk $n,nnn,nnn $0.6256

. Administration and Front Desk - Cost of front desk operations and resort management, including operating supplies and equipment rental. Also includes costs for operational and administrative support from the WALT DISNEY WORLD® Resort (“WDW”).
* Certain of the variable and semi-variable expenses related to the provision of certain services to the Condominium as set forth in the 2016 Estimated Annual Operating Budget, including expenses for housekeeping, maintenance and front desk operations, may be lower than they otherwise would be if such services were being provided only to the Condominium instead of included in a property management subcontract that takes into account that the services are also being provided to adjacent accommodations that are not part of the Condominium.

I'd suggest there's a difference between running the resort well (which is questionable in some areas now)

Here is for running the resort (housekeeping, maintenance and management). Note there are also breakouts for security, transportation, etc. which I didn't include. Definitions of each is provided, but they are pretty straight-forward.
Cost Components 2016 budget per point
Housekeeping n,nnn,nnn 0.9841
Maintenance n,nnn,nnn 0.4871
Management Fee n,nnn,nnn 0.3763

the one I put originally:

Member Activities n,nnn,nnn 0.2161
is SOLELY for the purpose of providing newsletters and entertainment / extras / events to their member per the description in the publicly released financial statement.

As long as their accounting provides for it, they are legally bound to provide it. Otherwise, it's called fraud which is in violation of a ton of Federal laws. If they charge for it, and they list it in the public statement, they better be using it for that. So with all due respect my friend, your original statement "Legally a room is all they are required to provide." is completely false. They are legally required to provide the things that are line-item expensed in their PUBLICLY released investors statement. Not doing so doesn't get them voted out by us - it gets them arrested and locked into a federal prison.

 

[disneynutz]

Found something else interesting. For those claiming that DVC doesn't owe us anything but rooms, that's actually NOT TRUE. THEY DO owe us benefits above the actual rooms. Don't believe me?
As owners, we are privy to the financial statements of our properties. Did you bother to read one? Look at this little line (this one is from BLT):
Cost Component 2016 Budget Budget / point
Member Activities (not sure if I can post) 0.2161

Still have doubts? Read the description:
11. Member Activities - Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort. Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings.

Translation: We pay .21 cents for every point for benefits which include the newsletter, postage, and recreational and membership activities. Right now those become a host of activities like the campfires, movies, whatever. However any thoughts that those are done to attract members and we don't deserve them are flat out wrong. The simple fact is we are paying for those, and if they take those activities away, they are required to replace them with something of equal value or reduce the amount we are paying into that line item.

And no - I am not someone who believes in entitlement. However, I have do believe in fair value for fair value. By the same token, if we want more benefits, there is no reason at all we can't start a petition to bring up at the next association meeting (they are open forum, and anyone can attend) to increase our price to - for example - .3 cents / share for increased services. Of course, DVC would then have to vote on it (and the mouse has a 51% share of the vote). they would certainly want to do their due diligence in making sure that the vast majority of owners are in support of the increased dues. However I would chance to say that if DVC heard an overwhelming cry in relation, the mouse wouldn't block the other voters for pure reason of Public Relations.

And finally to those saying that once the DVC stuff is sold, they have no incentive to keep us happy - one other reminder. They have their jobs. They are a board of directors, and they can be voted out (by us as the active owners). As mentioned again, the mouse does hold 51% of the active voting, but for the same reason stated (public relations) if an overwhelming majority of the owners vote no confidence in the board of directors, DVD would have a PR nightmare on their hands if they overrode the membership which I highly doubt they would.

Anyway... my 2 cents.

I don't see it that way. Yes they bill us for resort activities, which ones, all, just some, how much for the mailings and Christmas Parities, mingles? We don't know and I doubt that we ever will, Disney is great a keeping info private so accountability isn't an issue.

Bill

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I don't see it that way. Yes they bill us for resort activities, which ones, all, just some, how much for the mailings and Christmas Parities, mingles? We don't know and I doubt that we ever will, Disney is great a keeping info private so accountability isn't an issue.

Bill

I agree with some of that. As I mentioned, we know some of it is for mailings - they say as much in the description. However, the budget is more than just the magazine which they also say. it's clear in the definition that it covers some resort activities (again, that's the nighttime movies that the DVC resorts show, the fireside stories, the arts and crafts, etc).

My point is they do these activities, and although they might choose to change them based on popularity (movie nights not working? they can be cancelled and something else scheduled) there is a budget applied to them that must be utilized for those activities - so they have to do SOMETHING.

 

[disneynutz]

I agree with some of that. As I mentioned, we know some of it is for mailings - they say as much in the description. However, the budget is more than just the magazine which they also say. it's clear in the definition that it covers some resort activities (again, that's the nighttime movies that the DVC resorts show, the fireside stories, the arts and crafts, etc).

My point is they do these activities, and although they might choose to change them based on popularity (movie nights not working? they can be cancelled and something else scheduled) there is a budget applied to them that must be utilized for those activities - so they have to do SOMETHING.

Many of the activities aren't DVC specific, they are put on by the resort (non DVC). We apparently pay a fee towards these activities, who knows how much since they would be there even if DVC wasn't co-located at the resort.

I have found that if Disney can legally charge DVC for anything, they do, what company wouldn't.

Bill

 

[Dean]

No. It's not. Again, look at the financial statement.



Cost Components 2016 budget per point
Administration and Front Desk $n,nnn,nnn $0.6256

. Administration and Front Desk - Cost of front desk operations and resort management, including operating supplies and equipment rental. Also includes costs for operational and administrative support from the WALT DISNEY WORLD® Resort (“WDW”).
* Certain of the variable and semi-variable expenses related to the provision of certain services to the Condominium as set forth in the 2016 Estimated Annual Operating Budget, including expenses for housekeeping, maintenance and front desk operations, may be lower than they otherwise would be if such services were being provided only to the Condominium instead of included in a property management subcontract that takes into account that the services are also being provided to adjacent accommodations that are not part of the Condominium.




Here is for running the resort (housekeeping, maintenance and management). Note there are also breakouts for security, transportation, etc. which I didn't include. Definitions of each is provided, but they are pretty straight-forward.
Cost Components 2016 budget per point
Housekeeping n,nnn,nnn 0.9841
Maintenance n,nnn,nnn 0.4871
Management Fee n,nnn,nnn 0.3763

the one I put originally:

Member Activities n,nnn,nnn 0.2161
is SOLELY for the purpose of providing newsletters and entertainment / extras / events to their member per the description in the publicly released financial statement.

As long as their accounting provides for it, they are legally bound to provide it. Otherwise, it's called fraud which is in violation of a ton of Federal laws. If they charge for it, and they list it in the public statement, they better be using it for that. So with all due respect my friend, your original statement "Legally a room is all they are required to provide." is completely false. They are legally required to provide the things that are line-item expensed in their PUBLICLY released investors statement. Not doing so doesn't get them voted out by us - it gets them arrested and locked into a federal prison.

All they have to do is quite offering them and quit charging for them. If it's not in the POS or similar, it's not guaranteed and even much of that can be changed unilaterally.