What constitutes politically correct???

[bicker]

I think these are 2 completely different things.

They are two relatively different things: The casual use of disparaging references to racial and cultural groups, is actually worse than the use of crude language. Folks that don't want people to be held accountable with regard to casual use of disparaging references will naturally try to discount the negative aspect of that conduct, and if they are personally offended by crude language, then they'll naturally try to make the casual use of crude language sound worse than the casual use of disparaging references, even though it is less offensive conduct overall.

To realize the reality of this, folks may need to put themselves in the position of having their own identity, something they value, disparaged in that manner. That's not an easy thing to do, especially if they've spent their life in positions where they've been part of majorities and such.

My point was, in this time people are not as friendly and open. My observation is just that strangers don't make eye contact on a plane or bus. I'm also guilty of it. I couldn't tell you who half of my neighbors are. Yet we are expected to know what that John down the street does not celebrate Easter, and yet we are offending him by saying Happy Easter/

But if you're not making eye contact with John, then why would you say Happy Easter to him?

Also I'm hoping this thread can stay on track and be a friendly conversation/ debate.

Me too.

 

[Mrs. Sojourner]

These are many reasons why I have enjoyed living in the African country I do for the last two years.

I get called "white person" on a daily basis. It's not derogitory; it's a fact. If I tried to explain how this was not PC they would think that was ridiculous (well it would litteraly translate "that's not reasonable").

When describing someone they are very factful. "He is white and tall." "Her sister is the fat one wearing red." "She is the one with the thing on her face (mole)." I'm still not quite used to it after being raised that those comments are rude and not PC.

And as far as holidays go here we could learn a lot as well. They wish each other well on holidays, even if it is not one they personally celebrate. It's not offensive to them; it's just being a part of a community.

 

[Disney Dad Canada]

You're not making sense: Explain again, please, how women effectively own the word "thumb".

I have been told on more than one occasion that I am being offensive to women by using the term "rule of thumb", because they THINK the derivation comes from when it was okay to beat your wife with anything thinner than your thumb. It's the term as a whole, not just the term "thumb".

Because they are wrong in their meaning of the term, I have free range in using it. If there is no derogatory feeling meant in either my usage of the words or their origins, it's not my fault at all if they feel it's derogatory, they need to be more understanding.

Should I stop using the term "rule of thumb" because SOME women think it's offensive? What about black sheep of the family? What about cracker for a white person? It's not the term itself, it's how it's being used. If I mean no offense by it, and it has no offensive derivation, than it's your own problem if you find me offensive, not mine.

 

[dansyr2514]

Bicker, I think maybe you're not seeing the forest for the trees or you are playing devil's advocate to keep the debate going.

But, I think most people are responding in broader view than what you are quoting and responding to.

"They are two relatively different things: The casual use of disparaging references to racial and cultural groups, is actually worse than the use of crude language. Folks that don't want people to be held accountable with regard to casual use of disparaging references will naturally try to discount the negative aspect of that conduct, and if they are personally offended by crude language, then they'll naturally try to make the casual use of crude language sound worse than the casual use of disparaging references, even though it is less offensive conduct overall.

You are taking things out of context. There is no debate that intentional derogatory comments toward a particular group are worse than "swearing" My point is certain words are known by almost all to be offensive. If you choose to use those words in an inappropriate situation, the offensiveness is intentional. However, using the term chinese auction is in most cases innocent and not meant to be offensive.

To realize the reality of this, folks may need to put themselves in the position of having their own identity, something they value, disparaged in that manner. That's not an easy thing to do, especially if they've spent their life in positions where they've been part of majorities and such."

I'm going to say most people have been put in this situation. I know that I have, and I generally know if a person is intentionally trying to be cruel or not. Which brings me back to the original point. If a word or phrase is not an intentionallly derogatory, are we being too uptight in trying to re-word phrases that are not intentionally negative. In the sense of political correctness, how much is too much?

 

[wishspirit]

I see political correctness if making a minor adjustment in your use of language to ease the life of others.

Therefore if I know a turn of phrase or word is offensive to people (regardless of origin) I will try not to use it. Even if I don't believe it is offensive, I will stop using the term as I believe it makes a much nicer world if we all show each other a little consideration. A tiny bit of effort from me can make the difference to someone else. I know I hate the 'r' word, and I do judge people who use it as misinformed and ignorant. I don't want to be judged the same way by sloppy use of language.

However, the whole 'Happy Holidays' vs. 'Merry Christmas' is a grey area for me. I am not a Christian, but I do follow some of the cultural aspects of christmas, e.g. christmas tree, big meal, seeing family, giving presents etc. as they are not religious in nature. So as I do take part in some of the cultural aspects I see no offence in someone saying to me 'Merry Christmas', as the intention is pure and in the spirit of goodwill. I will often say it back! The intention isn't to be mean, so I take it as it is given.

 

[Disney Dad Canada]

Which brings me back to the original point. If a word or phrase is not an intentionallly derogatory, are we being too uptight in trying to re-word phrases that are not intentionally negative. In the sense of political correctness, how much is too much?

In a word, yes. If you look hard enough, someone is going to be offended about just about anything you say. I had one coworker that told me not to talk about Disney around her, as she was Baptist and felt that anything Disney was offensive.

And BTW, yes, there are sayings that Canadians find offensive. One is "Leader of the free world" when referring to the American president. Even though I hate the term, I realize that Americans aren't trying to say they run the entire world (or at least most Americans).

If you don't mean anything by it, people just need to chill out.

Have a nice day (if that isn't too offensive).

 

[Cheshire Figment]

A perfect example of political correctness is Disney having caved in to PETA's complaints about the mistreatment and mutilation of Beavers. Which is why they do not sell Beaver Tails at the Canada Pavilion any more.

 

[Disney Dad Canada]

A perfect example of political correctness is Disney having caved in to PETA's complaints about the mistreatment and mutilation of Beavers. Which is why they do not sell Beaver Tails at the Canada Pavilion any more.

PETA is a terrorist organization, and should be avoided at all costs. And before you start in on me, try being in a science lab when you're in the last day of a three month experiment, working with extremely high doses of radiation, and a bomb threat alarm goes off. I ended up staying to finish my work, and in the end PETA placed a REAL bomb at our facility, but luckily they made it poorly and it didn't explode.

That said, the Beavertail's booth closing had absolutely nothing to do with PETA. It was due to low sales once they went from fresh to frozen and reheated dough.

 

[bicker]

I have been told on more than one occasion that I am being offensive to women by using the term "rule of thumb", because they THINK the derivation comes from when it was okay to beat your wife with anything thinner than your thumb. It's the term as a whole, not just the term "thumb".

Yes, I understand that, but earlier you indicated that that and what I was talking about (the use of the word "Chinese" in a manner Chinese people tell you is offensive) are the same. The difference I was pointing out that women aren't called "thumbs" - they're called "women".

Because they are wrong in their meaning of the term, I have free range in using it.

And by contrast, Chinese people cannot be wrong in their meaning of the term "Chinese", because that word is what they're called by.

I'm not sure I can explain it better, so perhaps we can just let it end there.

Bicker, I think maybe you're not seeing the forest for the trees or you are playing devil's advocate to keep the debate going.

I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree.

But, I think most people are responding in broader view than what you are quoting and responding to.

Or a view that better supports what they personally want to do. That's what I am worried really about, that folks deliberately find a way to look past what is legitimately offensive because they don't want people to be held accountable for it. People should be looking to find ways to be better to each other, not looking for ways to excuse being mean to each other.

 

[parrotheadlois]

These are many reasons why I have enjoyed living in the African country I do for the last two years.

I get called "white person" on a daily basis. It's not derogitory; it's a fact. If I tried to explain how this was not PC they would think that was ridiculous (well it would litteraly translate "that's not reasonable").

When describing someone they are very factful. "He is white and tall." "Her sister is the fat one wearing red." "She is the one with the thing on her face (mole)." I'm still not quite used to it after being raised that those comments are rude and not PC.

And as far as holidays go here we could learn a lot as well. They wish each other well on holidays, even if it is not one they personally celebrate. It's not offensive to them; it's just being a part of a community.

We visited South Africa and loved it. It just makes so much more sense than all the PCness.

 

[Karlzmom]

Ok..so another question?

I am Christian and was brought up in an Italian Catholic neighborhood, went to Catholic school..the whole nine yards. So it is natural to me to say Merry Christmas! On the other hand, if someone would say Happy Hannukah to me, I would not be offended.
I try to be mindful and say Happy Holidays. I guess I'm wondering do most find if offensive if you say Merry Christmas and they celebrate Hannukah or vice versa.
In my case, I teach dance classes to children. I don't get the time to know each and every child on a personal basis. Around the holidays, I tend to say Happy Holidays, but then again, am I offending someone who does not celebrate at all?
As a society are we getting to uptight? We guard our identities so securely in some cases but then expect others to know what religion or belief we follow.

I always wonder why I *should* be offended by someone wishing me well? Doesn't really matter if I don't celebrate what they do, the point is they are offering me what they believe to be a good wish/blessing/etc. How can that be bad? I look at it less as being about me, and more from the perspective of the source....its an attempt to share goodwill. Pity more people don't try......

 

[DisneyKevin]

I always wonder why I *should* be offended by someone wishing me well? Doesn't really matter if I don't celebrate what they do, the point is they are offering me what they believe to be a good wish/blessing/etc. How can that be bad? I look at it less as being about me, and more from the perspective of the source....its an attempt to share goodwill. Pity more people don't try......

This is brilliant!

Just awesome.

 

[mdvlprof]

Ok..so another question?

As a society are we getting to uptight? We guard our identities so securely in some cases but then expect others to know what religion or belief we follow.

YES. People need to 'get a life'.

I don't set out to hurt people's feelings, but if I do, don't sulk about it. Tell me, I'll try to remember. Not always successful, but I'll try.

 

[Disney Dad Canada]

This is brilliant!

Just awesome.

I had a woman yell at me for holding a door for her. "Are you holding the door for a WOMAN!!!!!???" I try being nice and STILL get yelled at.

 

[JoShan1719]

These are many reasons why I have enjoyed living in the African country I do for the last two years.

I get called "white person" on a daily basis. It's not derogitory; it's a fact. If I tried to explain how this was not PC they would think that was ridiculous (well it would litteraly translate "that's not reasonable").

When describing someone they are very factful. "He is white and tall." "Her sister is the fat one wearing red." "She is the one with the thing on her face (mole)." I'm still not quite used to it after being raised that those comments are rude and not PC.

And as far as holidays go here we could learn a lot as well. They wish each other well on holidays, even if it is not one they personally celebrate. It's not offensive to them; it's just being a part of a community.

I always wonder why I *should* be offended by someone wishing me well? Doesn't really matter if I don't celebrate what they do, the point is they are offering me what they believe to be a good wish/blessing/etc. How can that be bad? I look at it less as being about me, and more from the perspective of the source....its an attempt to share goodwill. Pity more people don't try......

I agree with both of these. I am not Christian. When I sneeze I often hear, "Bless you." I don't get offended. They are wishing good things on me, why should I get upset with that?

 

[bicker]

I agree with both of these. I am not Christian. When I sneeze I often hear, "Bless you." I don't get offended. They are wishing good things on me, why should I get upset with that?

That one (specifically) is easy though. When I say, "Bless you," it is short for, "May the Universe in all its glory bless you with health." I would have a problem, though, with someone "praying for my immortal soul" or somesuch, in response to understanding that I'm not a Christian. It's the difference between someone wishing you well based on that which you share (i.e., an appeal to something for better health, even if one person believes that something is something specific and the other person believes that something is the vague concept of reality, itself) versus based on that which you vehemently disagree with each other about. The former is well-wishing; the latter is more like a power play.

It's a bit like giving gifts: Do you give a gift based on what the person you're giving the gift to would appreciate? Or do you give a gift based on what you insist the person you're giving the gift to should agree to appreciate, because you want them to do so?

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Every time I see the title of this thread there's an old SR-71 song that pops into my head.....

Well I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
So when I try to shut my mouth, they come out anyway
So when I speak my mind, that's when we connect
Yeah, but that's not politically correct

Your head's so filled with thought, you can't use your imagination
Like a sky so filled with stars; you can't find a constellation
And everyone's so sensitive to any bad vibration
You're so impressing, while we're regressing

Cuz I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
But when I try to shut my mouth they come out anyway

There's nothing I believe in more than my own insignificance
So why does everybody think my words can make a difference?
I just don't have time to think up every social consequence
I just keep on talking, and you keep applauding

And I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
But when I try to shut my mouth, they come out anyway
And if you spoke your mind, you might feel more connected
Until you stand politically corrected

You lean a little to the left or the right, but
You can only see who's on your side
And look a little like a deer in the headlights
A little blind and hypnotized
So you conform with the best of intention
Change comes from inside
And after all, that's what this country was founded on
Do nothing different, just fall in line

Tell me what happened to make us so afraid, that
You couldn't make a Mel Brooks movie today? No!
I saw Blazing Saddles yesterday

I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
But when I try to shut my mouth, they come out anyway
And I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
And when I try to shut my mouth they come out anyway... GO!

 

[wdwfreeksince88]

Every time I see the title of this thread there's an old SR-71 song that pops into my head.....

Oh my. Quoting Sr-71...I didn't know there was anyone around that still remembered them. lol I used to love them but haven't heard them in years.

 

[PeterPan09]

Never heard of the group, but I think I'd love that song!

It always amazes me how many people believe that there is a right guaranteed in the Constitution that they will never have to see or hear anything that may offend them. The mere fact that we are a diverse nation guarantees that at some point in your life, you will run into someone who says or does something that will offend you.

If you are confident in your own beliefs and the choices you have made in your life, why would someone else believing differently or making different choices offend you?

Christians in the US who call themselves persecuted make me laugh. Honestly, someone saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is persecution?? Someone else saying that they think God is a myth or a fairy tale is persecution?? If your belief is that fragile then you need to do some homework, my friends.

That goes for both sides of the belief debate. If your decision not to believe in a Deity is so fragile that the mere mention of said Deity by someone who does believe offends you, then you may need to do some solidifying of your own.

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that they have taken the same time and effort into coming up with their value system that I have. Perhaps they have reached different conclusions than I did, and that's fine with me. My feeling is that the more "offended" someone is, the less confidence they have in their own beliefs and they need to do a little more homework.

Part of the problem with US culture is that we have tended to retreat into what I call "echo chambers". We only have friends who believe as we do. We only watch TV networks that enforce our beliefs. We only read books and newspapers that support our beliefs. We only listen to music that sounds like us. When we do that, we rob ourselves of wonderful opportunities to grow and to learn.

 

[rotlex]

I truly feel the PC movement in this country has gone off the deep end, forcing me to be as politically INCORRECT as possible at every given opportunity.