What about NO fast pass at all?

[Tribe]

What do we do (at least should we do) as parents when our kids b**tch and complain and act spoiled and unhappy with what we give them? We take it all away! How do like that kids?! Daddy Disney should take it all away because of all the whining and complaining about FP+

Seriously though, what would touring be like with no fast passes for anyone? I am sure this has been discussed but I think I might be able to live with it. You could still get a lot done at rope drop and near close and the middle of the day waits would not be as bad without all the fast passers holding up the standby line. What is the worst thing about waiting in the standby line, STANDING AND NOT MOVING for periods of time as hundreds of fast passers move in front. Yes the lines would be long still in the middle of the day but WE WOULD BE STEADILY MOVING FORWARD. By logic, all standby waits would be shorter than they are today. It would be fair for everyone.

Look at the mess we are in now. Just Keep It Simple Stupid!
Tell me what I am missing please.

 

[Plum85]

As someone who has been to Disney 15+ times I think they are alienating people like me who can't book fast passes in advance and will just get what's left. 2014 will be the first year I'm considering not going to Disney as much as usual because it sounds like it will be a nightmare for me.

 

[Sandy Fisher]

We went many times over many years without fastpass. Worked just fine. We thought the original idea of fastpass was sort of "out there" and wondered why it was necessary.
Due to our age (older than dirt) and some physical limitations, there are things we choose not to do -- rock n roller, expedition everest, etc. So we never bothered with FP anyway.
Now it's likely we'd get to the park and not be able to ride anything without standing in a line ----- and I don't mean going on a big holiday or at the most crowded times ----- I mean going at a time when it shouldn't be that way.
So we'll see.
I could do without all this hassle, or what I assume will be a hassle next time we go. Hoping the wrinkles are all ironed out by then.

 

[Polydweller]

OP, you appear to have not been there prior to the introduction of FP in 1999. If you had you wouldn't be asking the question. Every line was 40 minutes or longer and very long in terms of number of people. Many lines were double lines eachwith long waits often in the sun. Oh, and not constantly moving either.

For one who was there, the idea of no FP was tried and it was not good. The issue isn't about having FP, it's about the balancing of the number of FPs to standbys. That's part of what's going on with the current testing and they know they haven't got that right. Tiering is an attempt to fix that though they'll likely go through a few models before it works out. But, believe me, regardless of what is worked out FP is far preferable to a no FP system.

 

[Plum85]

I don't think it's fp that has sorted out the lines it's been the recession. I've been prior to '99 and I don't recall waiting at least 40 minutes for everything. For people staying off property magic bands are a real put off.

 

[ktlm]

I remember life pre-fp and what I remember most about it is standing in long lines all day. I can remember how fantastic we thought fp was the first trip we had with fp. With the tier system, WDW is pretty much taking FP away, you are limited to one real FP a day. The 2nd tier is nothing you ever needed one for.

 

[kathy884]

As someone who has been to Disney 15+ times I think they are alienating people like me who can't book fast passes in advance and will just get what's left. 2014 will be the first year I'm considering not going to Disney as much as usual because it sounds like it will be a nightmare for me.

I know what you mean. I've been down to WDW 34 times since 71 and almost always stay offsite and go high season due to the school calendar. For spring break, I just couldn't get excited about paying Disney onsite prices or staying offsite and maybe feeling a little like a second class citizen. -- decided to go to Disneyland in CA instead. We'll spend a few nights in Hollywood too. lol

 

[anadyr21]

Outside of Disney, I remember the days of waiting on line, for 2 hours, in the hot July sun, for 2 minute roller coasters, at various Six Flaggs parks. We complained then, but there were no other options. Now, there are. Call it "spoiled," but I refuse to go back to that.

I was lucky with WDW. We used to go during Thanksgiving week, back when it was dead, long before all of the resorts sprouted up. Now, there's not really a"dead" season. I'm not waiting more than 30 minutes for anything, especially if I'm breaking off $90 a pop, AND, can't ride what I want.

 

[DebbieB]

I don't think it's fp that has sorted out the lines it's been the recession. I've been prior to '99 and I don't recall waiting at least 40 minutes for everything. For people staying off property magic bands are a real put off.

Disney has said all along that FP+ will be rolled out to offsite eventually.

Attendance has been up slightly every year, so the recession did not bring attendance down.

There's no way Disney will get rid of it all together, people are too spoiled. That's proven by all the people who are whining that they can only have 3 a day.

 

[kapoof]

We went theis past September and never used one fast pass. We are rope droppers and walked onto toy story mainia. I actually wished we had a longer line because I wanted to really see all the cute stuff whilst waiting for the ride. I can figure out why people run to the fast passes instead of going right in the ride? The longest time we waited was for test track, it had broken down and we came back a little while later and it was about an hour wait. We stayed about 5 days are had a good time. No fast passes can be done. I am not excited at all about the new system, it seems like so many problems and aggravations, I really don't want to deal with all that on vacation.

 

[supergoofy]

As a newb here is my issue with it. ^ months before I go to the World I need to book what rides I am going to ride and where I am going to eat.


Really I don't know what I will be having for dinner in an hour yet you want me to plan my day for a park I have not been to in a decade.


I don't see whats wrong with the current system.

 

[rebbyparker]

As a newb here is my issue with it. ^ months before I go to the World I need to book what rides I am going to ride and where I am going to eat.

Really I don't know what I will be having for dinner in an hour yet you want me to plan my day for a park I have not been to in a decade.

I don't see whats wrong with the current system.

LOL, agreed.

 

[kapoof]

As a newb here is my issue with it. ^ months before I go to the World I need to book what rides I am going to ride and where I am going to eat.


Really I don't know what I will be having for dinner in an hour yet you want me to plan my day for a park I have not been to in a decade.


I don't see whats wrong with the current system.

I'm not a newb and I agree.

 

[wen8jr]

As a newb here is my issue with it. ^ months before I go to the World I need to book what rides I am going to ride and where I am going to eat.


Really I don't know what I will be having for dinner in an hour yet you want me to plan my day for a park I have not been to in a decade.


I don't see whats wrong with the current system.

I agree 100% and I am a planner. It is just too much to expect people to do this IMO. And although I like to plan, I don't like to be forced into anything, much less to the level of booking my day minute by minute while on vacation.

 

[JAG107]

I don't see how lines would be longer without FP. As it is now, a select few get a shorter wait at the expense of everyone else waiting longer. The rides put through the same amount of riders per hour regardless of how they waited in line. And what I've never understood is how it's making Disney enough money to not only offset, but PROFIT from having the extra labor and hardware it takes to distribute, collect, and merge the fastpass riders. Are they selling that many more churros because a few people are waiting out their return times elsewhere?
As a CM at the rollout of FP at DL in 99, I saw mass confusion and crazy standby waits emerge right off the bat. When Indy broke down for an hour, and they had to honor all the FP's that didn't make it on during the past hour, the standby wait would be astronomical. The line would be short, but it would never move, because the FP return line would be over 45 minutes long. It was really bad at lower capacity rides like splash. It took a while to smooth things out and remove the FP machines where they were not needed (Pirates, Mansion).
I know there's no way Disney would ever back off of this marketing gimmick now that they're this far into it financially, I believe they will continue to push it and convince us how great it is.
I almost actually prefer this new FP+ system of getting one "real" FP per day, since WDW is spread so thin now with only a couple of major headliners per park (unlike DLR). But I despise the Tier 2 setup where now the wait for attractions like SSE, Nemo, Jungle Cruise, Pirates, Mansion, etc. will have to be longer than before. The adding of FP+ to many attractions that never needed it (like Pirates for example) is going to make a normally 5-20 minute wait be more like 30+ on a regular basis. I guess I'll see for myself how it is in January for our next trip and first experience using the arm bands...

 

[magicbob]

OP, you appear to have not been there prior to the introduction of FP in 1999. If you had you wouldn't be asking the question. Every line was 40 minutes or longer and very long in terms of number of people. Many lines were double lines eachwith long waits often in the sun. Oh, and not constantly moving either.

For one who was there, the idea of no FP was tried and it was not good. The issue isn't about having FP, it's about the balancing of the number of FPs to standbys. That's part of what's going on with the current testing and they know they haven't got that right. Tiering is an attempt to fix that though they'll likely go through a few models before it works out. But, believe me, regardless of what is worked out FP is far preferable to a no FP system.

I remember life pre-fp and what I remember most about it is standing in long lines all day. I can remember how fantastic we thought fp was the first trip we had with fp. With the tier system, WDW is pretty much taking FP away, you are limited to one real FP a day. The 2nd tier is nothing you ever needed one for.

THIS. I always find it curious when I read posts extolling the virtues of the pre-FP days when lines were short and fast.

I grew up near WDW and we went pretty often and lines were always LONG and SLOW. As a young adult, I returned to WDW with my wife and eventually children pre-FP and lines were LONG and SLOW.

Then FP came along and we hardly ever waited in line again.

Do the math.

Other than punishing us "spoiled children" for "whining" about FP+, why would anyone want to go back to those days?

 

[maxiesmom]

OP, you appear to have not been there prior to the introduction of FP in 1999. If you had you wouldn't be asking the question. Every line was 40 minutes or longer and very long in terms of number of people. Many lines were double lines eachwith long waits often in the sun. Oh, and not constantly moving either.

I don't agree. First off, most lines are not outside at all. And those that are are shaded. Second, the lines were not usually that long. This post reminds me how back in the day my dad had to walk to school in the snow, uphill both ways. I do agree OP, we all have become a bit spoiled.

I do hope Disney gets all of the kinks worked out of FP+, and that it ends up being a great system. I know I liked it when I was part of the test last year, and I'm curious to see if it will be the same experience when I go next week.

 

[PlutoFan10]

As a newb here is my issue with it. ^ months before I go to the World I need to book what rides I am going to ride and where I am going to eat.

Really I don't know what I will be having for dinner in an hour yet you want me to plan my day for a park I have not been to in a decade.

I don't see whats wrong with the current system.

I think they have the opportunity to make the park experience better for more guests, if they can get this right. With the old system, unless you were willing to do the RD sprint, FP was either unavailable or inconvenient for some of us. We stopped using the old FP system years ago after encountering too many occurrences of having the FP machines blanketed for the day by the time we arrived (with SB times showing a long wait), or getting a return time so far into the future that it interfered with ADRs at another park. On our last trip this October (before the tiered system kicked in), we had our most enjoyable time in the parks. WE got to choose the time instead of being at the mercy of the FP machine at the time we arrived at the attraction. I agree FP+ needs some fine tuning, but there seems to be a clear opportunity to orchestrate reduced wait times by redirecting the crowds. Blue Light Special at Attraction X with bonus FP available for the next 30 minutes....who knows?

 

[PeterPanic]

OP, you appear to have not been there prior to the introduction of FP in 1999. If you had you wouldn't be asking the question. Every line was 40 minutes or longer and very long in terms of number of people. Many lines were double lines eachwith long waits often in the sun. Oh, and not constantly moving either.

Absolutely untrue. Every line was not 40 minutes long. Most were no more then 20, usually 10. Some of the big ones, like Space Mountain would reach longer times but that was because everyone, and I do mean everyone, would literally run to it at rope drop. With that many people charging it they couldn't help but have a long line. The longest line I remember ever being in was for Peter Pan and that was probably 40 minutes at the time, but, even that varied depending on the time of day.

Fastpass did not increase the number of people that could ride an attraction in a given time. All it ever did was split it into two lines with priority given to the FP line. Same number of people rode it regardless, the difference was that the standby line ended up being much slower because people that weren't previously in line before you were now able to walk right on in and leave you standing.

I firmly believe that those that swear by FP are not taking into account the additional time that they are spending in Standby lines that they couldn't get a FP on. It all equals out, like it or not. It was and still is a PR spin that pushes a perk toward only a few that have paid the same park attendance rate as everyone else. Personally, I think it is one of the worst things that Disney ever came up with. Even Uni, has system that is far more useful, but, they charge extra for it. Well worth it on a busy day. Try getting a FP for every ride at Disney. Good luck.

That said, I don't believe that Disney will leave any of us out in the cold. With the limit of 3 per day, that should allow us to be able to get one for the rides we want. Staying within the window times has generally eliminated the hording of FP's, some of which were never even used, and therefore made more available for everyone else. That alone should make the system better. We will see, but, to be more than honest, speaking from the perspective of someone that attended WDW regularly from 1983 until now, the era with no FP was much more enjoyable and relaxed. Walk into the park turn to the right or to the left at the castle and experience them one at a time. No running all over to get passes, no having to go back later, unless you wanted too. No exaggerated waits due to FP. The pro's far outweighed the con's.

 

[kathy884]

I've been going to WDW since 1971. The optimization touring plans from the unofficial guide have done more for me to minimize wait times and enhance my park experiences than FP- by itself. The two together, especially high season really make things much more pleasant. Reserve your time w/FP, do other thing, and come back and ride. I don' think any plan I've done, though, has had me picking up more than three of these in a day, though. The unofficial guide folks only think a FP is worth it if it saves you a 1/2 hour or more of line waiting time.

I've been using a combination of Touring plans with FP- since 1989 and like visiting high season way more than I did in the early 70s and 80s. I did not like FP, though, that much without the touring plan telling me when to get one and when to use it.

I could be wrong, but I think if you got rid of FP entirely that might tip the scales and keep me from visiting at spring break (which at least right now is the only time that I can go or am willing to go). I'd look at optimization program estimate wait times without FP, though, before making that call. Maybe I'd still be fine. (I usually have a list of about 10 things I'd like to do at a park. Add a few one hour lines, and I'm really not interested. I also have the expectation that in a day at the park that I should be able to do all of my favorites once.)

Does that mean I'm spoiled? I don't think of it that way. It's just the value that I put on a Disney park experience. A day or two at a Disney park walking from one cute little attraction to another with fairly minimal lines is a magical day and something that I'd like to do with DS. Up those wait times enough though, and I'd give it a skip (would prefer to do something else instead) and choose an entirely different vacation destination. // I think there are many others like me, and that's why it's so important for Disney to get this right. Good luck to them.