We thought we were "terminated" with Disney, but "we'll be back"

[chmurf]

we're just back from 21 days in Florida.


I have a major low to share with you, and even though I pretended it didn't get to me, it did.

well first of all, we finally made our trains and flight. We were "lucky" that some union guys beat up Air France execs. That called for a cool down week, and that was just the time we needed.
Thanks everyone for your kind words and support.


So I brush rapidly through the highs


- weather, gorgious. Only 2 major downpours, including a lightning storm. Both times we were at Typhoon Lagoon, in our bathing suits. Had to run for shelter. Strangely enough those were lots of laughs and good times (doing TL under the rain means you get to ride Crush and Gusher multiple times in a row with 0 wait )


- Cabana Bay Beach. I take back anything I have said against that hotel. We stayed one night and it won our hearts. No express ... no problem ... we'll be staying there for 3 weeks next year. Long stay, no need for express. Tower family suite, perfect. Food court there makes our Sci Fi Dine in must-do obsolete, as we can have it everyday.

- Royal Pacific at Universal. Pool and IoA view, in tower 3, 6th floor. Eating at the pool bar. They were drilling and hammering on the 3rd floor, but it didn’t bother us. They stopped at 5pm. APH rate, good value for money. We’ll be back.

- Pop Century (2 nights) as good as always. Best Value hotel, great place.

- Being on the dining plan ... even though I came back with 16kg of excess bagage ... if you see what I mean, lol.

- Seeing people from the boards. Lots of them from a French board, but from here it was very nice to have Dixonsontour come up to us at Universal Studios and say hello. Hope you had a wonderful time. Can't believe how our children have grown since last time we met.


Lows :

Just one, Ohana at Dinner.

We were kept waiting for 15-20 minutes for our drinks after we were sat and ordered them. We emptied our cokes before the server even had time to put DS's apple juice on the table, this was met with a sigh from the server who realised she'd have to refill.
Then another 15-20 minutes for the wings and dumplings. By the time the noodels came, the wings and dumplings were stone cold. Then another 20 minutes for a beef skewer. We each took one piece, confident that they’d keep them coming. Over 20 minutes later came the chicken skewer.

We got tired and lost our appetite after 90 minutes at the table and we didn’t even see the tail of a shrimp.

We asked our server for the check, we wanted to leave. We were given wild looks when we declined dessert (we only had one small piece of beef and one small piece of chicken)

Our server disappeared, and after 15 minutes I got up and left. I stopped by a manager on our way out, and explained why I was dissatisfied.

I was then explained that the new policy is to wait for the guests to be finished with the appetizers before sending more food. Apparently many guests complained that they felt rushed when the skewers kept coming at the table … well that was the main reason why we came back to Ohana on each trip to celebrate my birthday.

The server never came back, I had to beg to get my check so I could pay for my meal (be it on the free dining plan)

First time in over 60TS meals at WDW that we didn’t leave a tip.

We left Ohana hungry, but with no appetite, after being there for 2 hours. Disappointed. We won’t be coming back unless they get back to the old policy. Well, we did Chef Mickey’s 3 times this trip and it’s become DS’s favorite place, so we have a new number one. So long Ohana.



Major Low and why we won’t be doing onsite anymore.

Here is a long, long, long letter I will send Disney in a couple of days. Actually it’s a draft, it needs reworking and including the correct dates.

If you are brave enough to read it through, knock yourself out.

If you aren’t here’s a small summary :

Booked OKW but room was not suitable. Were downgraded to CSR where we didn’t receive proper housekeeping for our whole 18 nights, filthy room, and housekeeping discovers after 2 weeks that we had made special needs requests.

Here’s the draft if you have some time to spare

We’re just back of what should have been our 19 nights stay at Disney’s Old Key West. We had booked that stay through Walt Disney Travel Company UK in april 2014 for October 2015, and we were really looking forward to it.

When we arrived at Old Key West, we were held for over 25 minutes by a Cast Member who kept insisting on clearing my misconceptions about MyMagic+ and Disney as a whole. She was clueless but kept insisting I was wrong. For example, she was very adamant on the fact that we could not use our Rapid Refill Mug (as part of the dining plan) at other Disney Resort Hotels. Which we know is a wrong or obsolete information. She also warned us that since we had multiple Magic Bands the one we would use to open our door at Old Key West would become our one and only active Magic Band for the remainder of our stay. This is also misinformation. And that’s only part of the misinformation I was served upon arrival. Even though we made it clear we were not Disney first timers, and needed to leave for the parks for a dining reservation, she never aknowledged me and kept on keeping us at the desk.

When we came back for the parks around 4pm, we still weren’t sent our room number. We were kept waiting until well after 4pm even though, as per a Concierge Cast Member, our room was finished cleaning around 12:30. A glitch in the system as we were told.

We finally entered our room (unit 1822) and were delighted by the space and the view … for the first 5 minutes. That was until the neighbours came “home”. The noise level was unbearable, due to a very poor soundproofing and a mere double door separating our unit from the unit next door. We could share every word of their conversation, and that was when the kids were not shouting. We could hear every step, from the unit next door and the unit above. Children running, jumping and stomping, in units next door and above, running and jumping in the stairs outside and in the hallways. We didn’t get one minute of peace from 7pm to 1am and didn’t get a minute of sleep that night.

Soundproofing was so bad that the next morning we were able to hear their silverware hitting their plates as they ate. And I’m not even exaggerating.

My wife and I decided there was no way we could spend 3 weeks sharing the vacations of perfect strangers.

We turned to Manager R****** J**** of Old Key West who saw and understood our frustration and desire for peace and quiet.

We were told by Concierge that we could be moved to a higher floor if I paid the difference … I declined.

I told Mr J**** that I would accept to be downgraded, even at a Disney All Star, if they adjusted the room rate, I didn’t mind the hotel, as long as it was quiet. We have done all kinds of hotels, value, moderates and deluxes. Never in 75+ nights, even at values, did we experience such a nuisance, even when once some Brits next door decided to have a smoke, beer and loud chatter break on the covered walkway in front of our Port Orleans room 2 years ago.

I was offered to be downgraded to Coronado Springs. Coronado is our least favorite resort, and we would never book there as we don’t like it at all. But since we were told the whole resort was sold out for our length of stay, we didn’t have much choice.

Mr J**** offered to compensate us with Fastpass+, free meals at Olivia’s and Mickey’s Not So Scary Halloween Party complimentary tickets, which I all declined. I made it clear to Mr J**** that I was not about money and free stuff, I was about quiet and peaceful vacations (wedding anniversary trip)

So we moved from a deluxe villa we wanted to stay at to a moderate we wouldn’t have stayed at if we had a choice.

Mr J***** tried to sell me on Coronado Springs by saying we’d get a pool view at Coronado Springs.

But when we checked in at Coronado Springs, we we given a standard (parking) view, in the most remote building. (I’m disabled and have difficulties walking long distances, and usually book preferred). No pool view, and the Cast Member at check in told me we shouldn’t have been made that promise at Old Key West. Another disappointment, not for not having a pool view or a close to El Centro building, but for having been misled again.

When we entered our room at Coronado Springs, the room had a funny smell of mold and damp.

The sideboard holding the fridge and TV was in the middle of the room. It’s secured to the wall with a cable, and the sideboard was as far from the wall as that cable allowed it to. My wife and I had to lift and put that huge and heavy furniture back where it belonged before we could use the room.

Room was filthy. So much dust on the nightstand that I could write my name in it with my finger. I later showed a picture of this to a front desk manager. The carpet was a disgrace. Simply walking from the bathroom to the bed with clean white socks on was enough to turn them gray and dirty.

Our first evening at Coronado Springs was spent cleaning our furniture with wipes. We didn’t want to have to wait for a housekeeper, we were too tired and upset. My wife cried herself to sleep.

Next morning I noticed that the housekeeper had forgotten to replace the items that were used, namely coffee pods and shower gel. That added to the overall impression, but I decided not to let that ruin our vacation, and see what would happen the next morning.

The next morning was the same. Nothing was replaced. So I went to front desk to notify them. When the Cast Member asked how I would like to get it solved, I clearly made a point that I didn’t want the “free stuff” I didn’t receive the previous day, but only that it was made sure that I received proper service the next day. And I made it clear to the Cast Member that I didn’t need extra stuff, just service the next morning.

When we came back to the room, a bag was hanging on our door handle, with 4lbs of shampoo, conditioner, and body lotion (I weighed it). That was bad enough that I wasn’t listened to at front desk, but the best part is that there was everything in that bag, EXCEPT what we had used and needed …

The next morning the missing items were still not replaced, so I went back to front desk. Where the Cast Member insisted on giving me the “free stuff” (shampoo, conditioner, and so on) he took time to fetch from the cupboard behind the counter, despite the fact I repeatedly told him I didn’t want them, I only wanted proper housekeeping service the next day, including proper cleaning. I made it clear once again that I wasn’t after free stuff, but just receiving the level of service I could expect and should receive from Disney. The Cast Member stopped listening to me halfway through, and remained glued to his phone making arrangments with housekeeping. Never listened to what I was telling him.

During the time It took for us to walk back from El Centro to our room at the Ranchos, our room had been entered DESPITE THE PRIVACY TAG that was still hanging on the door, and someone had left 30 bottles of shampoo neatly lined up on the bathroom sink. I felt insulted, as I had made it clear I wasn’t complaining about free stuff, but about service. I was also very much upset that our privacy had not been respected.

My wife told me to let it go, as we were leaving for a night at the beach the next day.

When we came back from the beaches, housekeeping had not been done at all. Beds were not made, towels had not been changed. Our room had been “forgotten”. We were out of toilet paper, handkerchiefs, and basically everything that’s supposed to be in a guest room.

I went back to front desk to complain, and at that time I was promised, for the 3rd time since we checked in 7 days before, that a housekeeping manager would get in touch with me, no manager ever got back to me at that point. We even set an appointment with a housekeeping manager the next morning. So we stayed in the room and cancelled our plans for that morning. No manager ever came or cared to leave a message.

I was furious so I went down to front desk and demanded an update on my room rate adjustment from Old Key West to Coronado Springs. I saw a manager, J*******(sp?) who told me that the price difference between the rate I paid and the current rate at CSR was roughly $400 so she refunded 2 nights priced at $201 a night. At that time I didn’t have the numbers in my head, and I wanted this to be over with, so once again I left it at that.

But once again I was promised a housekeeping manager would get back to me. They never did.

For the next 3 or 4 days, we had proper housekeeping

Still I met another manager to inform them housekeeping seemed to have resumed to a normal state. This time I had my invoice with room accommodation total, and the room rate difference was over $1000. I sent the manager my invoice via email and was refunded the $600 missing (on top of the $400 already refunded), no questions asked, and that was a positive point. That was one case closed, and I hoped it would then start to be vacations at last.

Then on our 14th morning at Coronado Springs, I finally had a voicemail from a housekeeping manager. I thought that was about the problems we encountered, but it was not. That voicemail informed me that they had “just noticed” that my file had a mention of our request for “VIP Cleaning” and I had to get back to housekeeping to inform them of my needs … WE HAD BEEN THERE FOR 14 NIGHTS and doubled and triple checked that housekeeping had been informed when we were moved from Old Key West. Apparently it took Housekeeping more than 2 weeks to see that note.

I immediately went down to front desk, again, and I was immediately directed to a front desk manager who was then joined by a housekeeping manager. I explained that my wife has had a severe skin allergy while staying at Pop Century in 2012 which led POP Century’s front desk to call 911 for us. We could only trace the allergy back to the detergents used for bed sheets, so since that time we request VIP Cleaning. Both managers and I were aware that we had been very lucky that my wife did not get another allergy attack at Coronado Springs, because that could have been very severe or even worse.

The housekeeping manager and I agreed on a full bedding change the next morning at 10:30am.

The next morning, we went for breakfast, and when we came back at 8:45 the room had already been done, apparently without the “special” sheets we were told the housekeeper had to specifically go get. I was beyond upset, and decided that for the good of my blood pressure, it would be best we went on with our plans rather than spending yet another hour at front desk.

The next morning, when we left the room, there was a white plastic bag, containing all the bed sheets, sitting in front of our door. The well awaited special cleaning sheets. The joke was really getting old. So I went down to front desk again. The manager was very apologetic about all our issues since we checked in. She asked me again what she could do to compensate. I answered that there was nothing she could do. I am not after money, I am not about free things, I am about service, but that was now a little too late, since we only had 2 nights left, one of which would be spent offsite.

I never got the level of service a guest can expect of Disney standards. The managers were very nice, sympathetic and apologetic, but all they could do was damage control. The managers at Coronado Springs only could offer compensation, which I refused, but never managed to get things into a working order.

Over the 18 nights I spent at Coronado Springs, I had to come to Front Desk on 13 occasions for housekeeping issues, and the only reason I didn’t come more often is that we spent 3 nights out of the resort.

Now we’re back. Remember the smell of mold I mentioned at the top of this letter ? We didn’t sleep well at all during our stay. We understood why when we unpacked. Everything that had stayed in the room for more than a couple of days reeks of a damp, humid, moldy smell. The only things that were safe and odor free where the gifts we had sealed and compressed in Hefty space bags as soon as we had bought them.

I use a CPAP machine to sleep. I had to call maintenance today, because the smell is present and is unbearable. The machine has to go to deep cleaning, and was replaced as a precaution. Fortunately I rent it and it didn’t cost me anything. A $100+ facial mask had to be disposed of.

The last manager I met asked me what she could do to compensate. I didn’t think of anything but now I have one demand.

I have booked a stay at Port Orleans Riverside next August through Walt Disney Travel Company Ireland (booking ref : IE ********** / US : ********** ) with a non refundable deposit of 195 euros. Needless to say that after giving Disney a chance to provide proper service for 18 days, with no success, I’m not ready to risk it for another stay. So I will cancel that stay.

In all compensation for the many issues, promises not kept, lack of respect for our privacy and our health, and lack of service, I demand that Disney refund the deposit of my upcoming booking so I can cancel it without a loss. 195 euros make roughly $215. Please compensate on my credit card on file.

Regards.

 

[bex7583]

oh dear !! your disney stay didnt go too well then did it , sorry to hear you had such problems and hope you can cancel and rebook something.

its a shame to hear about ohana its one of my faves !

 

[Mrs Doubtfire]

Firstly I am glad you got there without delay.

But my what a time you had at WDW, it is beyond belief really. We stayed once at POFQ and had a lot of noise, one of the reasons I like to stay in a Townhome or top floor condo.

We stayed at CSR (business class rooms) in July and had a brilliant stay, just shows how different things can be. I would want my money back after having such a bad time so I could take another holiday to recover!!

 

[wilma-bride]

I am sorry you had so many issues at Disney. Can I just give you a little bit of constructive feedback regarding your letter, as somebody who writes communications for a living? You need to make it more concise as it is very difficult to read. And I would ask for the refund of your deposit for your next stay up front. Or ideally ask them to cancel your current booking and refund the deposit. There are a lot of details there that are not required.

Glad the rest of your trip was OK.

As far as the meal at 'Ohana, we have always found it to be a bit disjointed. Last time we only got one visit with the skewers too though, which is the first time that has happened. Not that it mattered as we were stuffed.

 

[micksn]

Sorry you didn't enjoy your Disney stay. We stayed above you at OKW in 2012 in room 1832. We had noisy neighbours for 2 or 3 nights of our stay. (They had a different routine from us and would come back late from the parks then prepare a meal and get out sofa beds etc) They didn't stay too long and thankfully our new neighbours were quiet. In 2014 we had quiet neighbours throughout. It can so depend on luck.
You're making me nervous about CSR for next year. When we booked the room refurb was rumoured to start in October, but is now on hold till after Christmas - I was sort of hoping for a refurbed room!
Glad you had some positives in your stay

 

[dixonsontour]

Nice to meet you again albeit briefly. It was 2012 when we met at the DIS meet at the boardwalk - my DD would have been 6.

Sorry to hear about disney and I hope it resolves to your satisfaction.

Glad you loved Cabana bay. We had 10 nights there this year and 7 last year. Hoping to stay again in May. It is a great resort, my DD loves it. I did do a review of our Cabana bay stay on the DIS Universal hotels board, we got to try bowling and s'mores by the firepit this time.

 

[Woodview]

I think a private villa is your next stay ...... peace & quiet .... with your own pool .

just post a reply

 

[scoobydooby]

Oh no! I'm sorry so much went wrong. We spent 15 nights at OKW in a one bed villa this summer. I didn't care for the resort much but loved the accommodation and have to say never heard a peep from any neighbours the whole stay (we were on the ground floor too). You do seem to have been unlucky. I have to say I agree with Wilma Bride that I would revise that letter to be more concise and focus on the significant aspects of your complaint. And remove the word demand it will lose you sympathy. Trust me, I deal with lots of formal complaints and that kind of language won't get you anywhere. I know it all adds up, but I think you need to focus on the key (genuinely bad for sure) issues in a specific, measured and polite tone. Hope you have some fun park memories

 

[RossK]

I have just returned from a 3 week stay in the Polynesian at club level and I must say, while the trip was outstanding, housekeeping was noticeably of a low standard. When we checked in to our room on arrival, we were about to unpack and discovered the previous occupant of the room had left their clothes there in the draw and somehow housekeeping had missed it. The concierge very quickly moved us to a different room and apologised (they actually left a voicemail that evening to say they added a credit to our bill which we were not expecting). While everything we needed was replenished, it was the detail that was missing. It did not feel like "full housekeeping" that I would generally expect at a good standard of hotel. We made sure to tip well every day (and actually most nights where we had made it back to the room before the evening, also left a tip for the turndown service). I can only assume Disney does not employ a sufficient number of housekeepers and they do not have enough time to properly clean each room.

All in all, we very much enjoyed our trip and our stay at the Polynesian - it was only the housekeeping that made us question the dollar value of our stay.

 

[MarkE83]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I think the first thing I'd have done is find out how long the annoying neighbors were going to be around for - I doubt they stayed as long as you did.

I agree with ScoobyDooby -- whilst accurate, the draft letter is too... similar to a trip advisor review or rant on this forum. The letter needs to be more concise, and I'd also remove the word demand.

Hope you have a much better experience at cabana bay!

 

[dixonsontour]

I will say I did hear the last family in the adjacent room at cabana bay through the connecting door but we were in a standard room not sure if suites connect. Some families are noisy. It didn't bother us, all the first part of our stay we heard nothing. The Friday night there was loud noise/running around in the corridor but security were on to it. With it being Hhn at weekends there were groups of young people at cabana bay. Again caused us no trouble but if you were next to a partying room could be an issue.

 

[chmurf]

thanks for the advice above.
as mentionned, it was only a draft that needs reworking. I like to lay all the things flat "on paper", and weed things out. That's the reason I haven't sent the letter yet, it's still a work in progress

your remarks are duly noted and appreciated.

I will say I did hear the last family in the adjacent room at cabana bay through the connecting door but we were in a standard room not sure if suites connect.

Family suites connect.
We did hear the family next door, and they had a little girl, 3 or 4-ish, and we all know how noisy and high pitched voice they can get
but it didn't bother us as it was just random chatter from time to time, and it stopped really rapidly.

At OKW it was just sustained "living noise" for hours and hours.
I have a habit of counting things, bells ringing, horns, knocks, you name it, it count them unintentionally. I can tell you that the toilets were flushed 18 times betweem 11:30pm and 1am in the 3 units directly around us at OKW. I know in every hotel room you her water noises, and I don't mind the guest next door running a bath at 3am ... but 18 times in 90 minutes ( once every 5 minutes) we really thought this was crazy.

I'm sure the managers at OKW are aware of this. One of the very first thing the manager at OKW did was to go to his office and bring back ear plugs so we could have a chance to get some sleep ...

back to Cabana Bay Beach
the family suites do communicate, but the communicating door is located in the sitting room, which is separated from the bedroom. And while you can hear the neighbours in the sitting room (if they get a bit loud, cause you can't hear regular conversation) you usually have the TV on anyway. You might not have a TV on in a bedroom especially if you try to sleep.

the suites are really well designed in my opinion, because the beds are located as far as possible from the noise sources.

 

[wilma-bride]

For what it's worth, the only time we have ever been really bothered by noise from neighbours was at OKW. If you have a studio or a 1-bed, the noise coming through the 'lockoff' door can be as loud as if they were in the room with you.

If you want any more help with the letter, please feel free to ask.

 

[wayneg]

We have stayed at OKW 4 times and never an issue, infact never had a problem at any hotel in the world, once awakened with the noise of a bed rattling in room above us in a Travelodge but back asleep in minutes.
We always have aircon on constant which tends to drown out most noise but we are lucky and all of sleep thru anything (I can sleep thru my alarm clock 12" from my ear) must be awful to have all that noise and not be able to deal with it. Good luck with your complaint.

 

[Elise79]

I am not sure what size unit you were in at OKW however we always stay in a one bedroom there and I always request upper floor. Most buildings have a studio and one bed on the end with nothing above them. The wooden floors at OKW don't help and you can hear people moving the chairs at the dining room tables however its never been enough to really bother us. The same for the toilets flushing - I have yet to stay in an American hotel where I haven't been able to hear the toilet flushing in adjacent rooms.

The other thing with Disney is the time of day you complain as to how successful it is at the time - I know it shouldn't be like that but it is. Evenings are the very worst time to complain as you have the least number of senior staff on.

I have never and would never ask to switch resorts - I would rather stick with where I am and get them to sort the problem through a room move. Switching resorts will usually end up with more issues than it solves especially as you found out if you have any special requirements.

The other thing that was against you was you were there at a high occupancy time for the resorts which leaves them with fewer options.

I hope they respond to your complaint favourably - good luck.

 

[Sam1]

It's such a shame it's put you off staying onsite, especially with you being undecided about OKW and wondering whether to change to POR not that long after booking it. I hope they come back to you with something, even though it doesn't help much now. I'm not sure whether the housekeeping problem runs through the whole of Disney, we had to ask for towels and cleaning a couple of times when we stayed at the Beach Club last year. It didn't spoil anything, but you shouldn't need to ask for basics. We were told they were busy with change over getting rooms ready for new guests, but it's still no excuse to leave the ones already there with no clean towels.

 

[chmurf]

I am not sure what size unit you were in at OKW however we always stay in a one bedroom there and I always request upper floor. Most buildings have a studio and one bed on the end with nothing above them.

deluxe studio, with a lockoff.
building 18. Second floor.
We had equested upper floor, for the "noise" concern, but none of our requests were granted. (and the worst part was that CM at check in who told us "you're in 18 just like you requested" ... errrr, lady, no, we requested peninsular and we're at millers, we requested upper we're in the middle ... nevermind...)

The same for the toilets flushing - I have yet to stay in an American hotel where I haven't been able to hear the toilet flushing in adjacent rooms.

agreed
and I don't mind them. I just thought that this often was a bit ridiculous

I have never and would never ask to switch resorts - I would rather stick with where I am and get them to sort the problem through a room move.

I was given 2 options.
option 1 : stay at OKW and be moved to a 3rd floor, but I'd have to pay the difference (apparently they only had 1-bed or larger)
They wouldn't upgrade me in any shape or form (I didn't request that anyway and I would have had no guarantee as far as neighbors go.)
They wanted the difference between the rate I paid (remember it was a free dining 30% off room rate) and the actual rack rate for the larger unit. On a 19 nights stay that was over £3000 to be moved to another unit ... (as you said, it was in the evening, senior staff was mostly unavailable.

option 2 : be moved to CSR

I was told that were the only 2 options, and wasn't left a choice. I was tired, so were my wife and kid. I didn't really want to fight anymore. I just wanted a bed to sleep in.

I hope they respond to your complaint favourably - good luck.

thank you.

 

[joolz1910]

We had a similar issue at OKW in 2012. We were on the ground floor and the family above us was so noisy. They were up at 6am every morning and the kids just ran around shouting the whole time. We were lucky enough to be moved to a second floor but the 'lock off' door was poor insulation against noise. It was better then being beneath it, so we just got on with it. This year we asked for second floor and got peace and quiet - the luck of the draw.

On a related note, the sound-proofing at HRH is second to none. Once inside your room, you could hear NOTHING from the other rooms or the hallway.

 

[scoobydooby]

We had a similar issue at OKW in 2012. We were on the ground floor and the family above us was so noisy. They were up at 6am every morning and the kids just ran around shouting the whole time. We were lucky enough to be moved to a second floor but the 'lock off' door was poor insulation against noise. It was better then being beneath it, so we just got on with it. This year we asked for second floor and got peace and quiet - the luck of the draw.

On a related note, the sound-proofing at HRH is second to none. Once inside your room, you could hear NOTHING from the other rooms or the hallway.

Agree about HRH. We were in floor 7 so no one above us but it was quiet as anything, despite all the people going back and forth to the concierge lounge.

 

[wayneg]

Best sound proofing I have ever found is at the Hilton Garden Inn LBV. It was so good if you are in the bathroom you can shout on top of your voice and still not be heard in the rest of the room. Never come across doors so thick and heavy in a hotel. Same with windows and walls, not a sound from anywhere.