WDW's decline

[Bob O]

Raidermatt, i agree with you in pricing in that i dont expect a 20% drop in prices but for the money im paying i EXPECT longer hours, all attractions to be open and running at good capacity(except rides down for maintence) and rides/shows added every YEAR!!! If other parks can do this and they are seasonal their is no reason why a year long park cant do the same. And if hours are going to be reduced/no atracttions added etc i can find better value for my money going to otehr places with my vacation/leisure dollars.
I also agree with Hopemax that disney doesnt have to gouge there guests for everything they buy!!!! I find the price of admission to be very reasonable for the product im getting. But the price for everyhthing else from food/water/souvenirs/parking disney is bascially trying to nickel and dime the guests out of thier pocket books and in most cases you have little alternative because it is too time consuming to leave the property and get food etc.
I know from my family we spend several days at USF and that impacts disney's bottom line because that time/money comes at their expense!!While we used to spend all our time at wdw that now isnt the case and i think alot of families are doing the same and even if only a day ot two it does affect the bottom line.
As for discounting, disney could do some of that and still make money and have people leave with the idea they got more bang for their buck. Do they have to rip people off on parking/soda etc, when another park that saw a major incrase in a attendance is able to offer free soda,free parking,free sun tan lotion,free tube rentals to their guests???? Im sure they added the benefits of making customers pay for these items or offering them free and was able to do a cost benefit analysis and decided what was better. The trouble is in disney's case i belive the preception is that disney cares far more about the bottom line than their guests experience and while the resort is bigger with more parks and more resorts it isnt better!!!!
And while Six Flags/Paramounts parks may not be direct competitors they do have the ability to take away some days from a disney theme park if that family percieves that maybe this year we will save money and stay closer to home because disney oisnt offering us a reason to visit this year.And these type of parks have impacted disney by making disney up their thrill part of their park, ie RNRC or california screamin which are a attempt to compete with other parks thrill offerings.

 

[DisneyKidds]

CWIPPERMAN - good reminder . While it is true that Disney is not what it was 5, 10, 15, .......30 years ago, as a result of many factors - only some of which Disney has been able to control, they are still the best game in town. Even most of the hardasses around here are planting their arses in the World on a regular basis .

Matt, a hpothetical question related to this............

Not only is Disney not adding a whole heck of a lot, they are cutting in many areas.

Would you, or most people, be willing to accept the majority of the cuts (park hours, E-nights, EE, etc.) if Disney had continued to make the capital investments that many feel have been necessary (E-tickets, new shows, proper resort buildup)?

A note on discounts - I agree that Disney should up the value by increasing the content, rather than decreasing the cost. Discounts are a dangerous game. Disney will run into hot water when things turn around due to the few discounts they have offered. When/if DCA becomes what it was envisioned to be, will Disney ever be successful in getting full price admission after offering such steep discounts for so long? Even if DCA overcomes the content problems, people will cry foul about the prices going up. Likewise with WDW resorts. Code discounts have been so widespread and deep the past couple of years. When things are back to where they were 3 years ago and the discounts disappear people will be crying because the resorts 'cost more'.

 

[Bob O]

I wouldnt accept any of the cutbacks that were mentioned in exchange for more 3 attractions. They can keep the hours like they were and still add e attractions and update their parks if they are run in a competent manner and the company gets rid of things like abc/sports teams/fox family and other assets that take away from what was their core business.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Mr. O.....

I would agree that a combination of cutbacks and lack of capital investment together is the result of bad decisions. Disney very well could have done more these past two years. However, do you not feel that the economy, 9-11, and reduced tourist travel were valid reasons for any of the cutbacks?

That is where I was going. If Disney had avoided some of the big mistakes they have made in the recent past, isn't it still likely that some reduction in hours would have been justified by these events that Disney could not control? I guess I am just tyring to guage what could possibly keep people happy. For you it appears that it would take new attractions and late hours, in spite of economic influences and world events. Is that how most people feel?

Again, I am not an apologist and I feel that Disney has dropped the ball in a number of ways. However, as I have said before, Disney has to be able to take steps to respond to things that they can't control. Maybe they go too far sometimes, but they have to take some action. I'd like to think that maybe we are turning a corner. There are new attractions and real rumors to talk about. There are increased off season hours and nightime fireworks at the MK. EE is back. We have some new blood heading the parks and resorts division (even if he is ME's choice). Only time will tell if attendance levels return to years past and hours increase again.

 

[Bob O]

Disney could have survived 9/11 just fine if not for all the lousy decisions made by the einser regime, the cutbacks have been few if any.
They had to make cutbacks due to awful corporate decisions they made that affect the theme parks alot more than 9/11 did. Look at the internet(go portal) debacle/ovitiz firing/katzenberg settlement/abc and fox family purchese's among decisions that have cost the company billions!!! If the company stuck to the core business's they would have had enough money to ride out the downturn without having to take out some of the magic from the theme parks.
The theme parks have suffered as a result of a string of lousy decisions which have hurt the parks and casued the stock price to plumment!

 

[SamS]

A growing U.S. population does not necessarily mean a growing theme park base. Many Americans simply cannot afford a WDW vacation, and it's not necessarily corporate's fault. Good wage manufacturing jobs have become few and far between compared to twenty or thirty years ago. Many jobs in the service sector of the economy do not provide the discretionary income necessary to afford a WDW vacation. I consider myself very fortunate. I teach high school, and I know that many of my students have never had the opportunity to go to WDW, and unfortunately, many will never be able to afford it as adults either. Average income for U.S families may increase, but I suspect that median family income may be headed the other way.

 

[DisneyKidds]

The theme parks have suffered as a result of a string of lousy decisions which have hurt the parks and casued the stock price to plumment!

Roger that. However, it doesn't mean that it would have been unreasonable or wrong for Disney to sacle back hours when attendance was down significantly due to factors beyond their control. I agree that attendance at Disney would not be down as much as it is now if they had made better choices, avoided the agreed upon debacles you reference, and put that money back into the parks. However, attendance would still be down, and down significantly enough to warrant a short term reduction in hours until those uncontrollable circumstances passed. Granted, Disney has greatly compounded those problems with their bad decisions, and that will make it take longer for hours to return to where they should be.

 

[Bob O]

Wouldnt have a better marketing campaign been for wdw to annouce no cutbacks at all and maybe offer their guests extra's to induce more people to come back to the parks, or do what they did and make drastic cuts that only gave people even less reasons to come back to the parks??
What would intice the average guest to come back, reduced hours and less to do or increased offerings and maybe some discounts.

 

[mrsbigglesworth]

I think that the more discounts a company gives, the more people come to expect them, until some people actually want to pay only the minimum, or actually, less than the value of what an itemis worth.

Alot of people these days have no concept of paying for what an item is worth,. They only want to be able to brag that they got it for less than everyone else! Just my Humble opinion, no flames please.

 

[DisneyKidds]

what they did and make drastic cuts that only gave people even less reasons to come back to the parks??

Unfortunately, you are right as this is what they did. However........

What would intice the average guest to come back

........sometimes the only answer is time. All the incentives in the world would be unlikely to entice international travellers back to the states until they felt comfortable travelling again, which they still don't. Not that I buy the Disney spin that the cutbacks were instituted to position the company to take advantage when the economy turns, but there may be a little truth to it (just a little - the rest was just greed).

 

[mrsbigglesworth]

Consumers can be greedy, too. See my last post.

 

[Bob O]

Time may help, but the parking giving people a reason to reurn by adding some new shows/attractions would sure help!!

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by hopemax
Disney's Tokyo website has some Halloween themed menu options on their website.

http://www.tokyodisneyresort.co.jp/tdl/english/e_wn/halloween/index_halloween.html

Running the prices through Yahoo's exchange rate calculator

1. $13.51
2. $7.88
3. $4.67
4. $3.46

Would these prices ever be availalbe at the US parks, and isn't Japan supposed to be expensive compared to the US?

Well...$3.46 IS a little more than I want to pay for that pumpkin seed chicken wrap thing

I was thinking about your other thread about the 1972 hotel prices, and the comparisons with other hotels. I was looking for rates at the Tokyo disney hotels anyway, because we are thinking about a trip to Japan in a few months. I'm wondering if you ran the rates for the mira costa or disneyland ambassader through the converter? Now, Tokyo does have really high hotel rates, but the currency exchange is in good right now. The time that we are looking at is peak season, and the rooms are $300-$500 a night (in value season, they are more like $200-$400). That's for standard rooms, it goes up from there for deluxe rooms and views, and of course suites go way up from there.

DR

 

[hopemax]

Now, you know, this isn't that hard to do oneself

I just did the rooms, didn't do suite prices.

Tokyo Disney Resort Hotel Prices

Honestly, I'm blown away by what the Mira Costa charges. This is in Tokyo (well, close enough), the hotel is IN the Theme Park. It's supposed to be grander than the Grand Floridian. And yet a theme park view room, during peak season will only cost $434 a night.

Back in the states, Grand Floridian, 2002 Garden View, peak season $429, holiday season $499.

Yeah, the exchange rate is good $1 US = 125 Yen, but it had been up to 135. In the last 2 years its lowest was about 110 Yen = $1 US. That still makes that room only $490.

 

[d-r]

Well Hope the very good news for me is that you are getting a much better conversion rate with yahoo's calculator than I am with the figures I was using, so I am hoping that yahoo's is more more up to date - I think this seems to be a good time to go to Japan - I hope it works out for us to go.

Now, should I ask this question? If I was going to stay at the Grand Floridian, I'd be planning to pay more along the lines of $250 or less with the different rates that fly around. Are there any special deals at Tokyo? I don't think that the Dis. Club has any (they have Paris) or our DVC points will work (they have Paris). Ever see a discount in Japan?

DR

PS THanks so much for charting that out Hopemax!! I really like your figures a lot better than mine! THANKS

 

[hopemax]

No, no special deals in Tokyo. They accepted the Magic Kingdom Club, but didn't switch to the Disney Club card. They don't have to discount.

 

[mickeys#1fan]

Disney's slide is actually fairly simple. Michael Eisner has abandoned many of the core principles that made the company work in the first place. He outlines many of those in "Work in Progress," which I thought was a good book. No matter what division you're talking about - film, animation, parks, The Disney Store, guest satisfaction was the guiding principle that made the whole thing grow throughout the '90's.

Let's look at movies/animation. When Eisner first took the helm he issued a 30-odd-page memo that spelled out the elements of success in filmed entertainment. It can all be boiled down to one word: story! All the technical wizardry in the world can't save a boring story; just look to "Atlantis" as proof. Eisner said that instead of swinging for the fences with each release, that Disney should focus on making reasonably-budgeted movies that can make back their investment. With few exceptions, they have totally abandoned these ideas.

How about TV? A perfect example is the whole "One Saturday Morning" deal. A great idea, give kids good cartoons, relevant to certain age brackets, without senseless violence, THAT TELL GOOD STORIES. It worked. Then they started repeating the same six or eight episodes of "Recess," "Pepper Ann," and "The Weekenders" ad naseum. Then they got rid of good shows like "Buzz Lightyear" in favor of the brainless Mary Kate and Ashley cartoon. Finally in a total departure from guiding values, they added the long-dead "Power Rangers" to the schedule - what was that Eisner wrote about senseless violence?

Now parks. Basically, Eisner wrote that the secret to success was to crank out a new E-ticket ride every few years and promote the hell out of it. That seemed to work, especially with Florida locals. Now we all sit and wait for Epcot and the studios to get their nth iteration of Dumbo, ala the Aladdin ride, which seems to have to no useful purpose other than to hose up traffic in Adventureland.

I hate to trivialize anyone's death to the level of business, but Frank Wells' death began the decline of Disney. In "Work in Progress," Eisner describes Wells as a balancing force, almost a conscience - Jiminy Cricket if you will. Every time Eisner was about to get out of control, Wells could pull him back in. If the board was smart, they would recognize this and find someone that could bring Eisner back to earth when he needs it.

Walt Disney knew that the secret of success is the story. Engage the senses, capture the mind, tug the heartstrings. He could do all he did without focus groups, demographic charts, or ROI analyses. I realize that modern business requires these things to some degree, but sticking to core values worked for Eisner in the 80's and 90's. If they would just create magic for every guest, every time, the stock price would take care of itself.

 

[Bob O]

Ditto's to Mickeys#1Fan!!!! Great post and so sad but true!!

 

[scooby-the-doo]

Decline? Their flag-ship park closes a signature ride (20k), leaves its site dormant for nearly a decade and still has no sign or designs on a replacement. What decline?

 

[Lady Cluck]

Can I second the motion Mickeys#1Fan? The Disney corporate talking heads are mostly accountants at heart. The owner of the small company I work for is a CPA, so I understand that to them, the little red column vs. the little black column is all that matters. It's a different world than you and I live in.

We have all seen local or regional amusement parks go downhill after a management change, or when the existing ownership stops caring. Unless the "powers that be" have a change of $$$ philosophy, and begin to actually listen to the huddled masses, I have visions of the Disney parks declining in value and appeal to the average family over the years to a point that each in turn becomes a "sink or swim" proposition.