Very disappointed withe the kid's programming

[Woods]

We had a wonderful vacation both times we went on the cruise. But I have to say, if I could, I would change things a bit too with the kids programs. My children enjoyed it, but we only checked them in for activties they wanted to do, the rest of the time they were with us. I think there could have been more choices of activities for the kids. We went to sign them in for BINGO once but it had been canceled.

I would have liked to see more 'character' encounters for the kids. But to be honest, my kids loved being with us more than the Kids Club most of the time, not because the kids club wasn't fun, but because the ship is so great and they loved the Mickey Pool and the shows and the dancing up on deck 9, and well, we just had a blast!

So maybe if you plan to leave your kids in the club a lot it might get boring for them. We spent most of our time together as a family except for the things that the kids really wanted to do (which was usually 1 activity a day). Again, they would have stayed more if we wanted them to, but we had fun together, all of us! Maybe that is the determining factor. When our kids were in the club, we would sometimes show up and take pictures (like when they were dancing in Studio Sea). We were never apart for too long.

And it was the best vacation our family ever took! We are going on the 7 Day next year!
Debra

 

[Buschfan]

Thanks for the information Susan. It seems if we had early-seating, we would of had more choices. We agreed to be bumped to late-seating as early was overbooked on our cruise. We didn't think it would make that much of a difference on a ship primarily designed for families. We made a mistake by taking a credit to volunteer to be moved to late-seating. It is a shame for the folks with children who don't book early enough to secure early-seating though. Doesn't seem like the late-seating is geared towards families at all.

 

[ckr]

The activities WERE there for late seating as well -- at least on our 11/18/01 4-day Wonder. Perhaps they were not available when you sailed.

We found the game shows/evening family activities to be timed such that either (a) they were run twice -- once for BEFORE late seating and once for AFTER early seating, or (b) they were done BETWEEN seatings (ie 7:30pm or so).

If the fact is that you simply overlooked these activities on the Navigator, then wouldn't you agree that there really isn't anything "broken"? Or if this is not the way things were done last year on your cruise, that a "fix" has already been made?

Perhaps you could peruse some of the recent Navigators (Barb or Dave's boards) to let us know which is the case. I, too, am a stock holder and while I didn't find the same disappointment that you did, I think it's worth looking into. While I do not support changes to please a minority of people that disrupt the current pleasure of the majority of people, if there is a way to enhance the experience so that more people can be happy with it, I'm all for it. What do you think?

 

[Woods]

I think there is a difference of opinion in 'kids programming' based on just how much time you plan to use the Kids Clubs or Lab.

We thought it was great. But then, our kids only went in and did one or two activities a day. For the most part, they were with us.

BUT if you plan to leave your children there all day, or even most of the day, I could see how they would be bored with it.

Is that perhaps the difference? We loved the whole cruise, but we were together as a family most of the time. We would look at the kids' programs and our girls would choose one or two things a day the wanted to go to, and they seemed to like going in after dinner for about an hour of just 'play' time. But we let the kids decide when they went to the club and when they were with us. I know if we had left them in there for several hours they would not have liked it. They wanted to be with us, and the really wanted to go in the Mickey Pool!

 

[dmdeitz]

To Woods: Your point about the kids programming: 'We thought it was great. But then, our kids only went in and did one or two activities a day. For the most part, they were with us. ' is EXACTLY the point I was trying to get across to the Cruise line when my wife and I both spent WAY too much time talking to management on the ship and in celebration (where the Cruise HQ is). There is WAY too little real 'programming' for the kids.

And whatever programming there is - 1 real group / particiaption / interesting event in the morning, then in the afternoon and then in the evening, even that time is chewed up by their desire to move the kids around the ship - I saw on at least one navagator that they allowed 1/2 hour for movement around the ship! And they'd do roll call, remind everyone not to let their folks check the kids in and out during the roll call, etc. all before and after the 1/2 hour move. I waited to get my kids way too much on our 4 day cruise that I saw this happening / kids sitting quiet while names were called, rules were reminded, etc.

My kids would have loved the chance to do experiments, play in teams, etc. much more than they got the chance. We were all hoping that the kids program would me interesting and fun. Not boring, slow and so undirected as it had been. Ask yourself - do you (and your kids) want them watching Disney movies and hacking on the computer on vacation? If so you are all set on the Disney cruises. If you want more, look elsewhere, like we are doing. And if you think a call to management can change the situation for the better, the President of the Cruise Division is Matt Ouimet. His phone number is 407-566-3737 and I think his email is matt.ouimet@disney.com. Another person at the Cruise HQ is George Parker, the manager of Guest Communications. the switchboard number is 407-566-3500 and email is george.parker@disney.com. My wife spoke to Maureen Landry, also in Celebration who is the programming manager for the cruise line also (the kids programs fall under her purvue).

In our conversations with them, we acknowledge it's not conceivable to please all the people all the time. But when I posted the initial note on this board, I had no idea there would be this many people feeling the same way as me - the kids program needs to be beefed up. A vocal minority? Or maybe a majority? I know our ship had 2048 passengers on it and I think it holds 2800 or so? Sure, the economy and September 11th had a hand in lowering these numbers, but as a long time fan and shareholder of Disney, I keep hoping they can wave their magic wand and make the program better (for everyone). But I kept getting the impression that they don't feel they are too far off the mark with what they have now. I've seen navigators posted on the web, and still, 1 months after our cruise and initial contact, they don't show the variety of programs and less lost time moving the kids around the ship as I, and I think others posting on this board, would like to see. Because of that, we, reluctantly, have to look elsehwere to spend our cruise dollars. Most of the day, I and my kids don't want glorified babysitting. But for some reason, DCL thinks the majority do?

 

[wovenwonder]

I for one DO NOT want my kids just hanging out and watching videos on vacation. I want something that they don't get a chance to do enough of at home -- and that is spending QUALITY time as a family. I felt that there was plenty on the ship to do as a family. If the kiddos want a little 'alone time' as we adults may want every once in awhile - then there seems to be ample activities scheduled thru the day to allow us each a few minutes of individual time. This past April, my son chose not to go to the clubs - but, instead spend his time with us. We really enjoyed the chance to build more family memories.

 

[legs22]

dmdeitz:
Did you happen to notice my previous post in this thread? I wrote that Matt Oiumet said in the chat that DCL was adding 20 new children's programs. Hopefully this will satisfy your need to have the kids clubs "beefed up". It does look like DCL is making an attempt to improve the situation.

 

[Woods]

You made some good points. If there were more exciting programs, my kids would have probabaly spent more time in the Lab. But we had a great vacation, the best we ever had! It could get better, I am sure, but it was a dream come true already!
Debra

 

[dmdeitz]

Yes I did see your posts about Mr. Oiumet's comments. But that is just talk. There's no timetable. And while he said that, no one else below him said anything of the kind. Making me think - that is his concept and till it gets implemented will be who knows how long?. And what does 20 programs mean? 20 different activities? There is no saying that they will ADD more activities to the ship, maybe just rotate them between voyages? So next time you go, the few things for the kids to do will be different. But not necessarily more of them!

We had a great time when we were together. Maybe our thoughts of a vacation are different from yours or what Disney wants to provide - again, I totally understand that you can't please all the people all the time. but we wanted our kids to have the ability to decide - hang out with mom and dad or go to 'camp'. Unfortunately, most times, camp amounted to playing musical chairs throughout the ship. And for better or worse, our kids were forced to choose mom and dad (not that we are all that bad

 

[Britt1975]

I have to weigh in and say that my dd who had just turned six at the time of the cruise, had a wonderful time in the clubs, and my complaint, if I had one, would have been that there were too many things for her to do. Every time I tried to get her interested in going with me for family time, she just wanted to stay in the club. I had to drag her out for the Goofy Pool Party, for character meets, for meals and shows and for the deck party. Once I got her out she had fun, but as soon as things were over, she wanted to go right back in.

As for moving around the ship....I didn't have a problem with it. I was warned ahead of time that this was the reality, and my dd loved it when they went places, such as the sports deck. I also felt *relieved* that they did roll call before and after each move. How would you feel if they didn't do roll call and your child had gotten lost or separated? I know that I would have been outraged that DCL didn't provide enough saftey measures to protect the children in their care.

The way I feel is that the clubs provided a few "must do" activities every day. And that the rest of the time your child could either play with other kids in a supervised environment, or you could spend family time together without your child being worried that they might miss something unforgetable. My daughter and I both loved the clubs and we both look forward to the day when we can take another cruise with Mickey.

 

[Buschfan]

dmdeitz- Wow, I wished I had those numbers last year. You know how to cut through the layers I encountered dealing with Celebration. Good for you! I wouldn't of gone back and forth for months responding back to form letter e-mails had I had that info..


Well, I didn't notice much about the moving around the ship part. I am happy when my children are. My 9 year old loved just hacking on the computer that was mentioned before. He enjoyed it and I was happy he was entertained even though he could of done the same thing at home. It 's fine with me and do not fault DCL at all. I agree if other 9 yr olds want more structured activities, another program with more scheduled activities should be created. We just had the problem with the 4 year old program as my son couldn't handle the group activities. He would of been fine just drawing or playing with toys in a corner somewhere for a few hours while we took in a meal at Palos and a club afterwards instead of being reminded that please pick up your child up as soon as you finish eating as he has 3 strikes on him and he is not suppose to be in the club anymore. Must of been a Captain Mickey rule that was never mentioned to us. We rushed to eat that night and never made it to a club that night or the rest of the cruise. My situation is a little more on the ugly side...

Anyway, he just didn't fit the Disney mold I guess for what they feel a 4 yr old desires. We should of had an option of a less intense program though where he was just basically supervised and played on his own. I repeat, not all children's personalities are the same and right now Disney's 'one-size-fits-all' program is broken.

 

[ckr]

... sums my thoughts up perfectly in this statement: "The way I feel is that the clubs provided a few "must do" activities every day. And that the rest of the time your child could either play with other kids in a supervised environment, or you could spend family time together without your child being worried that they might miss something unforgetable. "

This is why I fear the push for more, more, more. Again, Disney does not market or claim to provide CHILD-FREE vacations, but rather FAMILY vacations. I'm afraid that if the suggestions made were implemented, there would be many more disastified customers than there are now as the lure for the kids to be away from the family is even more intense. If the programming was more like 'camp' then when would family time be? I think the balance of activities was great and hope that DCL does not try to do so much that the FAMILY vacations suffer.

I sure hope that DCL does indeed read these boards and that they'll take a look at this thread. Sure, there have been some that are not satisfied with the programming, and they have a right to that opinion and a right to voice that opinion. But I hope it is also noted that by a 2 (or 3) to 1 margin, most cruisers think the programming is fine the way it is. And if you look closely at the reasons for many of those who were dissatisfied, you'll find that DCL is not entirely at fault. (Not that the cruisers were either -- no slam intended here, really.)

I think it mostly boils down to expectations. Some people's expectations are not met, others are adequately met and others are exceeded. This board is a great place to get a feel for what to expect (ask questions, check out the kids Navs before hand, etc.), but is it really DCL's fault when all your expectations aren't met? Now if we were discussing sanitary or security or safety issues, that would be different. But to have a personal preference about the type and timing and location of activities and then say that the entire program is broken, I just don't see that as being realistic. JMHO.

 

[legs22]

Wow, just think of all the counselors DCL would have to have in place in order to accommodate all the different 'sizes' of kids!
Would this even be possible?

 

[ckr]

You and I seem to have similar young ones. My DD age 3 also did not do well with the structured activities. (See my longer account of what went on on the DCL Children's Programming - Participation Guidelines thread.) She is much more of play by herself kind of girl. But I did not see that as a problem for Disney to address, but as a problem for me as her parent to address. We simply arranged our schedule around the activities that she would be the happiest in -- the free time.

Luckilly, the free play time coincided with our Palos ressie, but I had made it for the last night for the express purpose of being sure she could handle the clubs. Had she not done well or had the times not coordinated -- NO PALOS! PERIOD!

I did not expect individualized programming for my DD who did not want to participate in the structured activities. And I can't imagine chosing a MEAL (no matter how good the food is said to be!) over my DDs comfort/security.

I respectfully ask: Do you really think your complaints are with DCL, or were there maybe some things (in hindsight) you might have done differently? Please don't take offense.

 

[Buschfan]

Well, I have had over a year to think about our experience. Not sure what we could of done different. I would of been more willing to accept his removal from the program had there been more places in the evening for us to take him with us. It just amazes me that a ship designed for family cruises is so segregated (except ESPN club) in the evenings. It is just not what we are used to on a cruise as we and our children stay up late and we like to go to a public area as a family. Not every night, but at least a few. The other cruise line's formula fits our style better as the children activites have never been involved and we were welcome to take our children with us to the alternative restaurant or any other public area on the ship. Our last NCL cruise, there were only our 2 children in the program (ours!) and they were happy just to play the Playstation for the couple of nights we used the program in the evenings. It was just babysitting, but since they were the only kids, it was fine. They loved the extra attention as there were only 2 other children on the ship. They were treated as just another face on DCL that needed to fit into a predesigned program on DCL. It was too much of a cookie-cutter type program for my 4 year old. On NCL, my kids were asked, 'What do you guys want to do'? The cruise director on NCL called them 'the boys' at one of the shows. We were happy, they were happy.. DCL is just not for us and it doesn't look like their children's program and their obsession with adult-only areas has changed for us to ever go back.

 

[legs22]

What is so segregated in the evenings? One small restaurant (Palo's), the bars, the nightclubs? Is that really a place that children should be? I'm sure Disney had to have some family oriented activities in the evenings. In Studio Sea maybe?
I think the adult-only areas are a very small part of these large ships and I don't think you can call DCL 'obsessed' about it. One pool out of three is 'adults only' and that's 'obsessive'?
My DD loved the kids programs. I never heard one bad word about the kid's club/lab from other passengers. The biggest complaint I heard from parents was that they couldn't get their kids OUT of the club/lab. What's the big deal with moving the kids around the ship? So they leave to have lunch, dinner, or see a movie. I don't see a problem with that.
I think the people who are not pleased with the club/lab are in the minority. You can't please everyone (I've heard that more than once on this thread).

 

[mog]

I was wondering about the "segregation obsession", too. As far as I knew there was one pool, one restaurant and a couple nightclubs that were "child-free". Other than that, kids were allowed anywhere on the ship. That seems like a pretty small amount of child-free space in relation to the whole ship, so I'm not sure where the segregation fits in to that.

As far as the children signing themselves out goes, we decided not to allow our 9 year old son to sign himself out. I just didn't want to take the chance on him being somewhere and me not knowing it. Our friends who were with us did allow their child to. He would ask the counselors to page them when he left and tell them where he was going, so that may be the source of confusion. They apparently don't automatically page everyone every time their child checks himself out. If the child says "I'm signing out, would you please page my parents and tell them I'll be at..." then they will page you.

 

[KAB13]

OK, so let's cut to the chase here:

dmdeitz wants his kids entertained and stimulated every minute of the day in one room (so they don't have to move around the ship). No playtime, no chance to relax ,entertain oneself, play a game,play dressup, talk with other kids. I don't know, I like to veg on a lounge chair with a book on vacation. Maybe kids would like to veg in front of a movie too?

OTH.Buschfan would rather have lots of free time at the clubs because his/her four year old doesn't work well in a group. (On a side note, this could be an ongoing problem for you when school starts. It may be more than not fitting into the Disney mold... Working in a group is one of those important little life skills)

So how the heck is DCL suppose to support both these extreme opinions....and everything in between?

I'm looking at the four day Navigator: family activities after say 10:00 include Family line dancing, family disco, Mickey Mania Game show, character greeting, tropical deck party, family kaoroke, and the pools. Yeah, there's not a whole variety of things real late for families but there is stuff to do. And the club is there for those parents who want adult time in the adult club.

I think it's nice that DCL has some adult only places and times. There are plenty of adults without kids who want to take the cruise. There are plenty of parents happy to get some adult only time away from their kids.

 

[Dave_from_Marietta]

Originally posted by legs22

What is so segregated in the evenings?

Perhaps Buschfan was referring to the large notice that appears at the top of Page 3 of every Navigator on the Wonder...

<b>Special Note</b> - Out of respect, Route 66 on Deck 3, Forward is strictly for those 18 and over after 9:00pm nightly

A similar large notice appears at the top of Page 3 of every Navigator on the Magic...

<i><b>SPECIAL NOTE:</b> Out of respect for our Adult Guests, Beat Street, including Rockin' Bar D, Off Beat & Sessions on Deck 3, Forward, are for Guests 18 & older after 9:00pm nightly.

 

[wovenwonder]

Way to go DCL for posting appropriate hours for the nightclubs/bars to be 'Adults Only'! I am sure that most DISers would be very respectful of the children being present - but, unfortunately bars/nightclubs at night is just not an atmosphere that kids need to be exposed to.