VERY disappointed in DVC and their member cruise!

[CMOORE185]

My opinion is that because it is a members cruise and it is so hard to book you should not be able to book more than one cabin unless your immediate family requires more than one cabin or you have adult children. If you are a single owner or you have room in your cabin, your guests can stay in your room. There should be no separate bookings for non members that are not immediate family.

 

[tammymacb]

But all direct purchasers ARE getting the same opportunity.
.

Obviously, we aren't going to agree about this ( shocker, I know ). But, nowhere does it say a purchaser of a resale contract isn't a Member. This is a Member's Cruise.

They were informed prior to buying that they could not use points for ABD, DCL, or Disney collection. At no point anywhere, did the paperwork say that you would no longer be able to sail the *Member's* cruise- that you were now less of a member. Even with cash.

IMO, it's wrong.

And IMO, any dues paying MEMBER has more of a right to that room than your friend who just wants to go.

 

[horselover]

Obviously, we aren't going to agree about this ( shocker, I know ). But, nowhere does it say a purchaser of a resale contract isn't a Member. This is a Member's Cruise.

They were informed prior to buying that they could not use points for ABD, DCL, or Disney collection. At no point anywhere, did the paperwork say that you would no longer be able to sail the *Member's* cruise- that you were now less of a member. Even with cash.

IMO, it's wrong.

And IMO, any dues paying MEMBER has more of a right to that room than your friend who just wants to go.

ITA.

 

[Chuck S]

Obviously, we aren't going to agree about this ( shocker, I know ). But, nowhere does it say a purchaser of a resale contract isn't a Member. This is a Member's Cruise.

They were informed prior to buying that they could not use points for ABD, DCL, or Disney collection. At no point anywhere, did the paperwork say that you would no longer be able to sail the *Member's* cruise- that you were now less of a member. Even with cash.

IMO, it's wrong.

And IMO, any dues paying MEMBER has more of a right to that room than your friend who just wants to go.

But in reality, it isn't a *Members Cruise* It is a charter cruise, chartered by marketing. A *Members Cruise* just makes it sound special to boost marketing.

That is exactly why I think they should require that the primary (lead) name in every cabin should be booked on points. That would eliminate the ambiguity completely. If resale points are not allowed for the cruise, and the member's cruise required booking on points for at least the lead guest, then it would make sense that resale purchasers could not book the cruise.

But, as I said before, if direct purchasers are allowed to book the cruise entirely on cash, then, IMO, resale members should be allowed to do so as well. Or, they could, as others suggested, have a delayed booking window, of say 2 weeks or a month, for resale owners on the member cruise. But again, the Marketing dept. sets the rules.

 

[SLJ6974]

Wow all this does sound a bit crazy. But the one thing that I am reconizing through this thread is the resale market is defanitley hurting Disney no doubt.

 

[lucyem]

What DVC should have done--IMO--is to only allow bookings on the 11th from members who are paying for at least one passenger on points. That would naturally disqualify resale owners (no cruising on points) without suffering the PR disaster.

Then state that those wishing to pay cash for the entire cruise fare can call starting on December 12th or some other later date.

2500 cruise ship cabins will open for booking simultaneously. Call volumes will be tremendous, yet it is extremely unlikely that both ships will fill within one business day. I agree with others who think this policy will be quickly reversed if Disney has trouble selling out the voyages.

I'm also forced to wonder what will happen if a resale owner doesn't spot that fine print and sits on hold for 4 hours on the 11th. Is DVC really going to simply apologize and hang up? Sorry for wasting your day...

It will be interesting to see how it goes on the 11th. But I agree totally they could have done this differently.

Obviously, we aren't going to agree about this ( shocker, I know ). But, nowhere does it say a purchaser of a resale contract isn't a Member. This is a Member's Cruise.

They were informed prior to buying that they could not use points for ABD, DCL, or Disney collection. At no point anywhere, did the paperwork say that you would no longer be able to sail the *Member's* cruise- that you were now less of a member. Even with cash.

IMO, it's wrong.

And IMO, any dues paying MEMBER has more of a right to that room than your friend who just wants to go.

I completely agree.

Personally I think that over the past year the DVC has started slowly turning into a money grubbing timeshare. While yes the product is still good, I think their internal attitudes have shifted too much. There is an old saying you catch more flies with honey, something they have forgotten. And I think long term they will only hurt themselves. Look at the meetings for members which are hard core buy buy buy. Members now avoid them. If it was a fun time members would go and bring friends and tell friends. The last cruise DVC meet was just a big old sales pitch. And done in such a way that if it had been my first introduction to DVC I would have been seriously turned off.

Instead of adding basic perks to encourage direct buy in they are taking away from resale purchasers. Negative is always looked at negatively. Had direct purchasers been given a bigger AP discount or some such, resale purchasers would have been bummed but understood. But taking away something so basic, and IMO wrong, like the "members" cruise, people react negatively.

 

[LisaS]

I agree with previous posters who suggested that those who bought resale after March 2011 did so knowing what they were giving up and therefore are probably less likely to be tempted to add on directly through Disney. Bottom line: they don't fit DVD's criteria for the Member's Cruise which is to sell as many add on points as possible. (I'm not saying I agree with what DCL and DVD are doing, just that I agree with PPs as to what is motivating them.)

If I recall correctly, this isn't the first time they have excluded some members from the MC. There was at least one year where those who had already taken a Members' Cruise were not allowed to book the next one. If I remember correctly, the theory at the time was that DVD wanted to fill the ship with fresh sales prospects because not enough of the MC regulars were tempted by the incentives to add on more points.

 

[DHar]

 

[Chuck S]

.... Had direct purchasers been given a bigger AP discount or some such, resale purchasers would have been bummed but understood. But taking away something so basic, and IMO wrong, like the "members" cruise, people react negatively.

I would LOVE a larger discount on APs, or allow direct purchasers discounts on MYW tickets, and at face value, it makes sense. However, one needs to consider how the many different Disney divisions/entities work together.

Yes, they are all under the Disney umbrella, but operate, and are responsible for profitability, as separate divisions. Ticket discounts would need to be negotiated, and show a positive effect for the Theme Park division, just as a Members Cruise has to show an increase in DVC resort sales to DVD/DVC Marketing in order to continue.

But cutting perks and options to resale purchasers costs DVC/DVD nothing. Basically it is a free marketing tool that can show an advantage to buying direct.

I agree with Lisa, those that have already purchased all of their DVC points via the resale market are not likely to turn around and purchase direct points because of the few perks offered on a "Members" cruise. They have already demonstrated a willingness to accept a cut in perks to save money buying resale. Given that...the members who have already purchased direct, as well as their friends and family, would likely be more open to purchasing while on the cruise...and boost the odds of a successful marketing cruise. But I still feel if marketing goals are not met on the upcoming cruises, that the "Members Cruises" will likely be discontinued at some point in the future, unless DVD/DVC Marketing gets an extremely good deal from the cruise line for chartering the ships off season.

 

[dizfan]

Is the member cruise put on by DVD (sales division) or DVCMC?

If that is the case then we should all remember it's the sales division offering this. My understanding is that none of our dues go to this division. It's strictly sales.

However, if it's DVCMC that offers the member cruise, then I believe resale and direct should all have the opportunity to book. My understanding is that our dues pay for this division.

 

[Chuck S]

Is the member cruise put on by DVD (sales division) or DVCMC?

If that is the case then we should all remember it's the sales division offering this. My understanding is that none of our dues go to this division. It's strictly sales.

However, if it's DVCMC that offers the member cruise, then I believe resale and direct should all have the opportunity to book. My understanding is that our dues pay for this division.

I do not think, by law, that any dues could be used to charter a cruise ship. Dues are, by law, tied to the cost of resort operations. That is why dues vary resort to resort.

 

[dizfan]

I do not think, by law, that any dues could be used to charter a cruise ship. Dues are, by law, tied to the cost of resort operations. That is why dues vary resort to resort.

Thanks Chuck.

Based on that, it seems DVD is making a business decision.

 

[tjkraz]

Personally I think that over the past year the DVC has started slowly turning into a money grubbing timeshare. While yes the product is still good, I think their internal attitudes have shifted too much.

DVC may be shifting its approach to some degree but the biggest change is merely the perception of owners. DVC has never been anything but a "money grubbing timeshare."

There is an old saying you catch more flies with honey, something they have forgotten. And I think long term they will only hurt themselves. Look at the meetings for members which are hard core buy buy buy. Members now avoid them. If it was a fun time members would go and bring friends and tell friends. The last cruise DVC meet was just a big old sales pitch. And done in such a way that if it had been my first introduction to DVC I would have been seriously turned off.

Most of what is happening has been brewing for years. DVC was lucky in that they could successfully stave off the effects longer than expected.

Due primarily to the economy and the nature of expiring contracts, DVC is faced with a marketplace in which there are resale options for $40 per point. It's going to take more than a little "honey" to get buyers to spend $140 on Bay Lake Tower with that disparity.

We could spend all day debating prices but Disney is going to demand a certain return on their investment if they continue to build new resorts. And members will not be better off if they simply stop building altogether.

Instead of adding basic perks to encourage direct buy in they are taking away from resale purchasers. Negative is always looked at negatively. Had direct purchasers been given a bigger AP discount or some such, resale purchasers would have been bummed but understood. But taking away something so basic, and IMO wrong, like the "members" cruise, people react negatively.

Problem is DVC doesn't have much to give. They are a relatively small unit of a very large company. DVC isn't in a position to make demands of other departments. Claire Bilby cannot walk into the office of Meg Crofton--or anyone under her--and demand that members get extra dining discounts, ticket discounts, preferential fireworks viewing or any other perks.

DVC has control over items under the DVC umbrella. They can control the cruises, Welcome Home Wednesdays and Member Mixers. They can control the different point use options (cruises, Adventures by Disney, Concierge Collection, etc.) DVC can control existing perks which have been negotiated and dole them out as they see fit.

Ideally it would be nice if DVC / DVD could negotiate added perks rather than modifying existing ones. But that's easier said than done. 11 months ago Jim Lewis had suggested that some new perks program was in the works--and suggested that it would be targeted at those who owned direct purchase points. But hard telling what his departure may have done to those plans.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Nice post Lisa. I think the "rub" is in saying only members that have purchased direct can participate in the cruise. Not that many members would have gone on the cruise anyway. It's all about the "label". Personally, that cruise is overpriced, doesn't sail to any place except CC, AND its a big sales pitch. Why do people want to go on such a cruise?

Hmmm, has me thinking, didn't someone post on here a few months ago about direct vs. resales changes were a'comin......

I agree with previous posters who suggested that those who bought resale after March 2011 did so knowing what they were giving up and therefore are probably less likely to be tempted to add on directly through Disney. Bottom line: they don't fit DVD's criteria for the Member's Cruise which is to sell as many add on points as possible. (I'm not saying I agree with what DCL and DVD are doing, just that I agree with PPs as to what is motivating them.)

If I recall correctly, this isn't the first time they have excluded some members from the MC. There was at least one year where those who had already taken a Members' Cruise were not allowed to book the next one. If I remember correctly, the theory at the time was that DVD wanted to fill the ship with fresh sales prospects because not enough of the MC regulars were tempted by the incentives to add on more points.

 

[tjkraz]

Hmmm, has me thinking, didn't someone post on here a few months ago about direct vs. resales changes were a'comin......

Was there some post in particular that foreshadowed this circumstance?

I don't think there was anyone who thought the March 21 limitations were the be-all, end-all of resale restrictions that DVC would implement. We've spent the last year speculating over Jim Lewis' high point perks program which logically would have benefited only those with points purchased direct.

 

[titans33]

Obviously, we aren't going to agree about this ( shocker, I know ). But, nowhere does it say a purchaser of a resale contract isn't a Member. This is a Member's Cruise.

They were informed prior to buying that they could not use points for ABD, DCL, or Disney collection. At no point anywhere, did the paperwork say that you would no longer be able to sail the *Member's* cruise- that you were now less of a member. Even with cash.

IMO, it's wrong.

And IMO, any dues paying MEMBER has more of a right to that room than your friend who just wants to go.

So let me get this straight. If Adventures by Disney were to put on a "Members Adventure" you think resale purchasers should have access to it? Just because it is a "members cruise" it is still part of the Disney Collection. When I print out a point chart showing DCL point prices it specifically states "Some Disney Vacation Club Members will not have access to the Disney Collection through membership." This is pretty self explanatory. It doesn't discriminate whether paying with cash or points it says simply that through your membership you will not have access to the Disney collection. Sorry for the OP but I don't see the problem since everyone knew the restrictions on closing after the restriction date.

 

[tammymacb]

Let me say this for the absolute last time, if it's a *Member's* anything and it's available to book for cash, then I believe all member's should have access to it paying cash.

Until resale buyers are no longer member's, then they fit the demographic of the advertising.

Quite frankly, I don't buy that DVC is going after their best sales options, either. I bought a resale, and another resale and then direct points. There are MANY on here who have done the same.

This is simply Disney spanking their naughty resale buyers and shaming them that they aren't good enough to cruise.

 

[SLJ6974]

Disney is getting desperate.

 

[Chuck S]

Quite frankly, I don't buy that DVC is going after their best sales options, either. I bought a resale, and another resale and then direct points. There are MANY on here who have done the same.

Many, yes. But I would bet that DVC Marketing has stats that show that while many resale purchasers did add-on through direct purchase, chances are that the vast majority have not, as compared to those that purchased initially directly, and continued to add-on directly. If there is one thing Disney does well, it is compile and analyze marketing stats. These boards may or may not represent the overall statistical, real-time marketing trends and info to which Disney/DVC has access

Probably not enough of those people that bought resale initially have added-on through direct sales that it was of any major concern to the marketing department to exclude them from their chartered sales cruise. If it were, you can bet they'd have been allowed to cruise on cash.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Let me say this for the absolute last time, if it's a *Member's* anything and it's available to book for cash, then I believe all member's should have access to it paying cash.

Until resale buyers are no longer member's, then they fit the demographic of the advertising.

Quite frankly, I don't buy that DVC is going after their best sales options, either. I bought a resale, and another resale and then direct points. There are MANY on here who have done the same.

This is simply Disney spanking their naughty resale buyers and shaming them that they aren't good enough to cruise.

I agree. And we also bought resale first and added on direct several times thru member events and member web sales so if we had been restricted from events like this DVC would have lost an opportunity. If the cruise is not available to all members and the only real pupose is for sales then they ought to change the name to "DVC sales cruise restricted to whom we wish".

If you can sail only on cash then all members should be able to book. This really does seem like a slap in the face by DVC to the newest resale purchasers.