Vent...Service Dogs Really???

[surfer_ed]

OK, hope I don't get flamed or offend anyone but was at Disneyland last week and saw 3 questionable "service dogs". Two together with a couple and one with another visitor.

I know a thing or 2 about dogs since I train dogs on the side and have 4 in my own pack. I also have a friend who fosters service dogs in training while they are puppies for the visually impaired. I know the high standards of behavior they have to maintain and how hard they work. I also know that service dogs come in all shapes and sizes for more than just seeing eye dogs and more breeds than just retrievers.

No way these were service dogs. They had home made signs on the 2. One was breed I know is not a service dog plus he was not in good enough shape to be an aid to anyone. The third one had no manners or behaviors as a service dog as well. Barked all the way through the parade. All three dogs we not young enough to be "in-training".

I saw this once at WDW too when a lady tried to convince a cast member that her poodle in her hand bag was a service dog.

Just appalled that people would do this and cast doubt on legitimate hard working service dogs that are so essential.

I apologize in advance if I am mistaken.

 

[sonnyjane]

I certainly won't "flame" you, but I also will say that unless you walked up to the guests and asked them specifically what ailments or anxieties their animal was helping to alleviate, then you shouldn't assume that they weren't legitimate service animals.

Where I work, we get service animals all the time. Some are the stereotypical labs with red vests on, but many others are in strollers, or bags, or wearing outfits. They are not even dogs necessarily! You can have a service pony! The bottom line is that you're not really allowed to ask people about their condition. Service animals aren't just for outward physical conditions, so to say a dog "was not in good enough shape to be an aid to anyone" isn't really true. His company alone could be aiding them, perhaps by predicting seizures for example.

Do I think there are people that take advantage of this? Absolutely, but unless someone came up to me and said "I am sneaking my dog in and saying he's a service animal when he's really not", then I won't look down on anyone for bringing a service animal into a public place even if they don't look like a typical service animal.

ETA: I wanted to add that in 2011, they DID crack down on service animal guidelines here in California. You used to be able to bring just about any animal in for just about any reason. Now it has to be a dog or pony and it has to be for a medical issue (companionship doesn't apply anymore).

 

[Aspoonfullofsugar]

I have been suspicious before too when I've seen an obviously untrained dog but there are now so many kinds of service dogs that it can be hard to be sure. Along with seeing eye, there are hearing, dogs who help people with physical disabilities, emotional service dogs, seizure alert dogs, and diabetes alert dogs, just to name a few. Sometimes all the person needs is a note from their doctor saying they need a service dog for a person to qualify for one. They can then use a dog they already have, or acquire one, and there is not necessarily standardized training for them. I'm sure some people do abuse the system but then my friend has a small cute mutt who actually does a wonderful job of alerting her if her blood sugar levels are off.

 

[mickeymouse1205]

OK I HAVE to ask. Why would someone fake a service dog? Do they just want their pooch with them at DL? I don't get it. If they are looking for handicapped advantages, why not get a wheelchair or something, why a dog? What would be the advantage of fradulently having a service animal (of course this is in reference to, if they are really faking it)?

 

[wilkeliza]

As a guest it is not your job to judge or ask the other guest questions. You should ask a CM if you believe the dog is being disruptive and talk to a manager about the situation. I have worked in environments where you have to ask (restaurants and coffee shops) and the only two things you can ask is "Is you dog a service animal required because of a disability?" and "What work or task is the dog trained for?" That's it. Depending on how they answer those two questions is how you proceed with it. If they say yes it is a ____ service dog or yes he is trained to do xyz then you leave it alone unless it becomes a nuisance. Now the dogs you describe although they may be service dogs they could have been asked to be removed because they were being disruptive. A service dog should not bark unless it is alerting its owner and should not bark for no reason. I've seen old dogs who are service dogs so you can't always tell by looks if they are capable of it or not.

If you wan to read up more I've provided a link to the 2011 revisions of the ADA laws for service animals.
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Now FL and CA may have their own state level laws that apple to service animals and assistant animals so it is always hard to know if they were breaking laws or not. Assistant animals are simply any animal that is deemed to help a person such as small dogs that people just carry around to help with their social anxiety. By true definitions they probably aren't service dogs since they aren't trained for a specific task or duty but they may be protected by state and local laws.

 

[Malcon10t]

ETA: I wanted to add that in 2011, they DID crack down on service animal guidelines here in California. You used to be able to bring just about any animal in for just about any reason. Now it has to be a dog or pony and it has to be for a medical issue (companionship doesn't apply anymore).

Actually, it isn't California, but the US Department of Justice that cracked down. As someone who trains service dogs, I really have to shake my head at people who are bringing untrained dogs to be passed off as a service dog. Yes, we have ran into the dogs in the stroller. And had a discussion with a family who brings their therapy dog, since they felt it was appropriate (note: Therapy dogs are not service animals.) One of the dogs we raised was placed as a facility dog (therapy in a specific setting.) That dog has public access, when it is working with a client, but no access when it is just her and her handler.

The laws are very specific about access. The problem is no one wants to question someone for fear of a law suit.

 

[wilkeliza]

OK I HAVE to ask. Why would someone fake a service dog? Do they just want their pooch with them at DL? I don't get it. If they are looking for handicapped advantages, why not get a wheelchair or something, why a dog? What would be the advantage of fradulently having a service animal (of course this is in reference to, if they are really faking it)?

I know people who fake their service dog because they don't want to pay for boarding so to be able to take their dogs to their hotels all across the country they have a letter from their doctor saying the dog is for extreme social anxiety. I know the dog isn't a true service dog because the dog often gets left behind and is first and foremost a pet. The dog is taken all over the country and the owner even tried to get the hospital to allow the dog to come visit during her labor and delivery and recovery but all of her friends but their foots down on it. This woman can operate a normal life with out the dog as she does often but she just would rather not.

I'm not agreeing with the practice but in NYC you see it a lot especially out of people who have tiny hand bag dogs. Also from people who know the rules and don't want to leave their dog chained up outside a coffee shop while they are out for walks and such. I couldn't tell you how many times in NYC people would just walk into my Starbucks and announce their dogs as a service dog but then you would see the same person an hour later back in for another cup sans dog.

 

[Aspoonfullofsugar]

Some people just like to travel with their dogs and want them along, even in the park. If you are at DL or CA the same weekend as a dog show you will see lots of "service animals." Most hotels that accept dogs, will not let you leave you dog unattended in the room and the kennel at Disneyland fills up. Actually those dogs are very well behaved since they are used to noise and crowds. You can usually tell because all of the dogs are beautifully groomed and you see breeds you don't normally see in real life.

 

[Malcon10t]

Assistant animals are simply any animal that is deemed to help a person such as small dogs that people just carry around to help with their social anxiety. By true definitions they probably aren't service dogs since they aren't trained for a specific task or duty but they may be protected by state and local laws.

Actually, the new laws specifically state that the above situation does not qualify.

"Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA."

The dog's use must be task oriented.

And California's laws do not expand the ADA.

 

[dragonflycurls]

Service dogs are for all kinds of reasons- anxiety, seizures, etc.

it's terrible to make assumptions without knowing.

 

[wilkeliza]

Actually, the new laws specifically state that the above situation does not qualify.

"Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA."

The dog's use must be task oriented.

And California's laws do not expand the ADA.

I said they are not service dogs under ADA but may be considers assistance animals under that specific state's laws. This is why it is so hard to know what is going on unless you are from that state or work in that state. Yes the national ADA laws don't deem them as service animals but any local or state law may say differently. As you pointed out CA does not expand on national ADA laws but some other states might.

 

[Malcon10t]

The problem for me is the fake (poorly behaved, poorly groomed, barking, etc) cause issues for the real service dogs. We just turned in our 8th service dog in training. Its a LOT of work. A service dog should be unseen and unheard. My favorite comments are usually as we depart a restaurant "I didn't know there was a dog in here!" I actually video taped a service dog in Disneyland, as it walked in front of me, eating popcorn off the ground, putting its head in other peoples bags, sniffing people.... It was horrifying to me, as a trainer.

Now, this is one of my favorite videos. This is what a service dog team is about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=magjis3d2Ko

 

[EmmersIsTheMommy]

I was gonna mention seizures.

I can't imagine bringing a dog into the parks would be 'fun'. Don't get me wrong, I have two shih tzu's and I love them buuuuuuuut yeah no. So I'm hoping that they really are service animals because it'd be such a drag to have to worry about a pet in disneyland LOL!

 

[cats mom]

I've also seen dogs in the parks that I suspect qualify as comfort animals, but not as service animals.

Like the Malcon10t said though, I'm sure the fear of being accused of denying access makes Disney err on the side of allowing them rather than questioning whether they actually qualify.

 

[theworldneedscolor]

We were in the Carthay Circle Lounge, and the couple next to us had a dog in a stroller. I doubt it was a service animal. I love my pooch, but definitely wouldn't want him in the parks. Some people are weird about their dogs.

 

[mmmears]

The problem for me is the fake (poorly behaved, poorly groomed, barking, etc) cause issues for the real service dogs.

That was my first thought, too. I sure hope people aren't "cheating the system" since it will make things much harder for the people who need service dogs.

I agree that you can't really tell just from looking, but all the service dogs I have seen have been so well behaved, calm, and attentive that I'm amazed at their composure in large crowds.

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

I certainly won't "flame" you, but I also will say that unless you walked up to the guests and asked them specifically what ailments or anxieties their animal was helping to alleviate, then you shouldn't assume that they weren't legitimate service animals.

Where I work, we get service animals all the time. Some are the stereotypical labs with red vests on, but many others are in strollers, or bags, or wearing outfits. They are not even dogs necessarily! You can have a service pony! The bottom line is that you're not really allowed to ask people about their condition. Service animals aren't just for outward physical conditions, so to say a dog "was not in good enough shape to be an aid to anyone" isn't really true. His company alone could be aiding them, perhaps by predicting seizures for example.

Do I think there are people that take advantage of this? Absolutely, but unless someone came up to me and said "I am sneaking my dog in and saying he's a service animal when he's really not", then I won't look down on anyone for bringing a service animal into a public place even if they don't look like a typical service animal.

ETA: I wanted to add that in 2011, they DID crack down on service animal guidelines here in California. You used to be able to bring just about any animal in for just about any reason. Now it has to be a dog or pony and it has to be for a medical issue (companionship doesn't apply anymore).

This.

Also, ADA and California law not including emotional support animals is meaningless. What matters is whether Disneyland does, or will ask a guest to prove anything. I would never ask someone that, and I wouldn't want Disneyland to be doing that to anyone, either. It would be unkind, and DLR isn't supposed to be an unkind place for *anyone*, y'know?

 

[EmmersIsTheMommy]

That was my first thought, too. I sure hope people aren't "cheating the system" since it will make things much harder for the people who need service dogs.

I agree that you can't really tell just from looking, but all the service dogs I have seen have been so well behaved, calm, and attentive that I'm amazed at their composure in large crowds.

Yeah. My friend wants to get her dog a good behavior certification so he can be a service dog but he still has a few habits that won't allow him to pass it. It's pretty strict!

 

[Malcon10t]

Yeah. My friend wants to get her dog a good behavior certification so he can be a service dog but he still has a few habits that won't allow him to pass it. It's pretty strict!

Here's the other side, does she have a disability that the dog remedies? For example, my daughter has a hearing dog. Belle is her service dog. Belle alerts her to various sounds. Now, just because Belle is certified as a SD doesn't mean *I* can take her in public. *I* don't have a disability (in this case hearing loss) that is mitigated by the dog. Just because Belle is a service dog, doesn't mean she has access. She has access with my daughter, who does have a disability. Access doesn't follow the dog, it follows the disabled person.

 

[EmmersIsTheMommy]

Here's the other side, does she have a disability that the dog remedies? For example, my daughter has a hearing dog. Belle is her service dog. Belle alerts her to various sounds. Now, just because Belle is certified as a SD doesn't mean *I* can take her in public. *I* don't have a disability (in this case hearing loss) that is mitigated by the dog. Just because Belle is a service dog, doesn't mean she has access. She has access with my daughter, who does have a disability. Access doesn't follow the dog, it follows the disabled person.

I honestly don't remember the reason. She wanted to get the certification in general. I'll have to ask.