UPDATED w/ more PICS!! At WH's right now and need some advice from former visitors...

[sjanus]

I don't think your experience is typical. Cleanliness is a very important issue. You shouldn't have to clean the home when you get there, as it is your Disney vacation. It is the management company's responsibility to do a walk through after each and every clean, as they oversee the staff they have working in the homes. I would be disgusted by the things you mention. The exit clean fee that you have paid is for the clean following your stay and the person before you should have paid same or sometimes owner covers, but it should have been clean upon your arrival.

The pack'n play being broken should be immediately reported, as the lock on the pool fence. These are safety issues, they need addressed immediately.

It is the owners that replace items in the home, but the management company should be letting the owners know if they are low on glasses, towels are worn, etc.

So a combination of things are going on here---owners who do not apparently visit the home or have much of a part in upkeep of it and a negligent management company.

As for supplies, this varies from owner to owner. The homes are self-catering but there are some owners that provide extras, as well as some cleaning items, etc.

Typical for you to have is a roll of toilet tissue per bathroom, one roll of paper towel, small soaps in bathrooms, some leave one small pack of laundry detergent, some trash bags, just to name the basics. As I said, there are owners that go above and beyond, and lots of time guests will leave items, spices, dishwashing detergent, dishwashasher liquid, etc.

Try not to let it ruin your trip, sounds like you did what you had to do to live in the home. I myself would have done the same given the predicament.

As for the laundry, it is typical for the management company to ask the guest to do some of the laundry. If 10 people stay in a home and dirty all the towels, for instance, and there are 20 sets, then it doesn't leave much time to get the laundry done in the clean time (5 hours would be the average time to clean a large home) if there is a back to back booking. It is assumed that the guest will do some laundry during the week. One would hope they would use laundry detergent, most guests buy some to do their laundry during the week. But many owners/management companies do leave a small box of tide for guests to do at least one load of towels.

As far as towels are concerned, the rule is there should at least be two sets of towels per guest, so if max is 10, should be 20 sets. Most owners have at least a change of sheets as well.

Kitchens I would think should be stocked for number of guests as well. There should be at least enough dishes for guests allowed, glasses, silverware, etc. It should be inventoried regularly to replace broken worn items. Sounds like this home hasn't been inventoried for quite a while.

There are a lot of great owners and management companies out there, and it is unfortunate that you for your first time you have to go through this. Windsor Hills is a very lovely place with a lot of owners who are very invested in their properties through my own personal experience.

Definitely, you should complain to the owner and the management company--no excuse for it whatsoever.

Sandy

 

[happylittlefamily]

Well, just thought I'd update on my less than satisfactory experience with dealing with property management on the issues.

I guess the property manager is on the boards or something because when we got back from the parks today, there was a note on the counter with a bunch of glasses that said she noticed they were missing when she did her walk-through on Saturday and wanted to drop them off to us. Also, just wanted to let us know that one of the pack n plays were broken, so to use the extra one and they would remove the broken one when we leave on Saturday. And finally, there was an acknowledgement that we had removed the fire extinguisher from the upstairs wall and that we were not to do so for safety reasons. I found this note quite interesting since these were all mentioned in my post here and I had yet to bring any of it up to anyone (property management or owners), but anyway, I figured, even though it had been a long day at the parks, it was time to place the phone call. As a side note, I REALLY dislike the idea that anyone is able to enter the house while we are here, regardless if they are property management or not, unless I've requested them to come. I mean, our personal belongings are out and there is no option of a safe to put things away, so that was, in my opinion, very intrusive.

I called and talked to them and said that there were several other things that were bothering us. My biggest concern was that when I had gone to put my toddler down before dinner for a rest, there looked like a piece of dog poop behind the headboard. At this point, I was not surprised, but there was NO WAY IN HECK I was going to clean that. I can do laundry, dishes, etc., but I'm not messing with that stuff. So, I told her about it. She wanted to come by right away, which was rather inconvenient as we were trying to sit down for dinner and hoping to head to MK for fireworks and the Electric Parade, but it had to be dealt with. I had already stripped the beds to wash all the sheets and we pulled the bed away from the wall for them when they arrived. They came in and went upstairs. Well, thankfully, it wasn't dog poop but some weird crushed plastic looking stuff. Not sure what it was or why it was there, but regardless, I wasn't going to get close enough to figure it out. So they (property manager, maintenance man, and house cleaner) asked if there was anything else while they were there. Of course, there was, so we showed them. I wasn't prepared to have had all 3 of them show up and start making repairs, so I didn't have my list handy and was off guard, so that was frustrating being on the spot like that, especially while my little ones were going nuts while we were supposed to be eating dinner.

We mentioned the downstairs fire extinguisher anchor just coming out of the wall, which is why it was removed. The main. man indicated that the kids shouldn't have been touching it anyway. Ummmm, what does that have to do with the anchor that is supposed to be screwed into the wall falling out and detaching from the wall? The only reason we moved it was so our kids didn't get hurt if they did bump it and it fell off the wall and onto their foot!!

Then we mentioned the pool fence. That was supposedly not an issue, but the main. man did manage to get a way to lock it until it can be repaired. The other night, when we were out in the pool, our 4 yr old opened the slider and the entire slider handle (inside and out!) fell off. Like all parts just fell on the ground! We mentioned it since hubby had to rescrew it in, but had to remove the wooden handle part because the screws weren't long enough to hold it all together. The main. man said that couldn't be because they were the original screws. Again, ummm? Are we making this up? I'm getting a little peeved at the attitude now, but keeping myself in check.

The table is listed in pictures as having 5 chairs at the table and having a high chair available. There are 3 bar stools as well. Well, we get here and 1 of the chairs is missing a leg. So, really, there are only 4 chairs at the dining table. So, my family of 6 cannot eat together. We put the bar stools away because our kids are quite young and did so for safety reasons and when I mentioned this to the property manager, she said, well, you could use the bar stools. So, one of us is supposed to sit in a bar stool at a dining room table at meal time. Lovely response. I said it was a little misleading considering it's not mentioned.

I mentioned the sheets being used and of course, they claimed it was impossible. I had them in the wash, so what can you do? But the house cleaner did say that she pulled them out of the closet knowing we had kids so the cute sheets would be on the bed. Interesting comment since when I went to wash the set of sheets now in the top of the closet in that room, it's a mismatched set that was very unlikely to have been what was on the bed prior to our visit.

I also showed them the bug casings on the floor in her room, which I was told were lovebug casings. Hmmm, interesting. I'm a FL resident and VERY familiar with lovebugs. I have NEVER seen a lovebug casing that looks like a roach before. I'm very glad I took pics so I can search google to compare, as this is disgusting. Regardless, if the room was vacuumed, why were there bug casings on the carpet?? The house cleaner picked one up off the carpet and put it in her hand to examine it and claimed it was a lovebug casing and preceeded out of the room and dropped it on the tile hallway floor leading to the kitchen. Yay for proving cleanliness is key around here!

Upon standing in the kitchen discussing other items, the PM noticed we had moved the artificial plants and made a comment indicating that she hoped we intended to put everything back so we could avoid being charged a fee at departure! OMG!! Seriously!!?? We moved them to the plant shelves so our children wouldn't damage them! Bad taste is starting to seriously form in my mouth now. I'm sure I'm forgetting other details of our get together with them, but I gave them the wire exposed mesh strainer that was rusted so that nobody would get hurt on it and showed them the dirty lipstick glass. No apologies. Just kept stating how they walk through and never have issues like this and how they are very careful, blah blah blah.

When they left, the main. man kept saying how it was no big deal and that a few little things aren't going to be something our week should be bothered by. I beg to differ! Which is why I said "yeah. I guess vacation is just work relocation."

After they left, I sat down to eat my sandwich, realizing there was no way we were going to be able to get to MK now that it was like 7:30 or so. I get a phone call from the PM about 10 minutes later letting me know that the main. man noticed we had unplugged and moved some of the tvs and wanted to make sure we'd be able to manage getting them rehooked up correctly to avoid a fee upon departure! That is when I LOST it!! I said that I was very offended to be receiving a phone call indicating charges I may acquire when I have already been completely inconvenienced and not even so much as apologized to! She said she had thanked us for bringing it to her attention but didn't feel they should be sorry because they do take care of the townhouse. Oh really? So, we are just the lucky ones then and spending 2 days cleaning while I'm supposed to be on vacation is to be expected? She then said that she also noticed that there was a hole behind the upstairs bedroom door while they were here that wasn't here when she toured on Saturday, so that was something we were responsible for. I just want to freaking scream at this point because I've tried to be calm, cool, and collected, but this is absolutely ridiculous! There are minor holes behind almost every door in this house! How are they going to say we caused that one? And seriously? She noticed THAT on Saturday and today, but didn't noticed that the refrigerator still had crumbs all over it from the previous renters and that all these other items hadn't been addressed? OMG!

We had moved the tvs because we have 3 toddlers and did so to keep them from being damaged!! Anyone who has young children knows that you do have to rearrange things to create not only a safe environment, but as a responsible guest, do whatever it takes to make sure your children don't damage property. The PM said she wasn't used to guest rearranging rentals the way we had. Oh. Okay. We put the bar stools in the pantry 4 ft from the kitchen, moved the flat panel tvs from the rooms the kids are in, and put all artificial plants up out of reach. It's not like we made the downstairs bedroom a DEN! UGH!

My head is aching and I'm extremely frustrated and now thinking I should just go straight to dealing with the owners only. I don't feel comfortable at all with PM taking our concerns seriously and now feel I have to watch every move I make to avoid being punished by fees for saying something. But if I were the owners, I would want to know about this stuff! I would want to know if things weren't being kept up.

 

[Beccabunny]

Hmmm. You sure you don't want to tell us the name of the management company? I mean, if they're going to charge you for damages, you'd want to warn others, wouldn't you? Since they're obviously reading the boards, they should be aware that word gets around. I certainly wouldn't want to rent from a property they managed. I hope you'll let us know how this is resolved.

 

[happylittlefamily]

Like 5 seconds after pressing "send", the owner called us to inquire about everything. We talked and I can honestly say, I do not feel at all that the owners had any idea of the issues we have been dealing with and were extremely easy to talk to. I can tell that they really do care about the house and want to make sure everything is taken care of. I'm just going to do what I have to do to feel comfortable for the rest of the week as far as cleanliness, but I hope it will be taken care of for guests after us because nobody should have to deal with all this when they are supposed to be on vacation. I have 4 kids. A 1, 3, 4, and 8 yr old and 2 of them are autistic. Tired is my constant, whether at home or on vacation so I think I'm less bothered by the extra workload than others may be. What is most disturbing is the attitude (from PM) that we are being anal over the issues we've had to deal with thus far instead of being inconvenienced guests. Oh well. I'm don't want to waste any more of my time that should be spent with my family enjoying our vacation dealing with all this. It's been such a headache and I can only hope that all of this happened so the next family doesn't have to endure it Thanks everyone for your input! It helped a lot to know what we should and should not have been bothered by. I am going to take this all in as a lesson learned and an experienced gained...

*when I say the owners had no idea of the issues we have been dealing with, I mean the property not being thoroughly cared for. They were aware of our visit and issues with PM as they received a call from PM informing them, so that actually made the conversation much easier to have I just wanted to correct myself.

 

[happylittlefamily]

I would hate for the owners to lose potential renters because of poor upkeep. If they were to change PM or house cleaners, main. people, etc., who were more fit to take care of the property, then there wouldn't be a problem or even if the ones they had were more proactive vs. reactive. I don't think it's fair to punish the owner, who does have a lovely house in a great location, when the problems are completely related to how the house is being maintained on their behalf. I hope, by simply bringing it all to their attention, things will be corrected so these things become non-issues for future guests. That is why I've chosen to not say which home we are staying in because I really believe things will get better and improve now that things have been brought to light.

 

[kidshop]

I hope you told the owners about being threatened with fees and about how you were accused of causing a hole behind the door!

That management company may be feeling pretty defensive if the owners really aren't aware of the condition of the house. Well, they are now aren't they! I hope your vacation improves and all the issues are resolved. It is a leap of faith to rent a home, and it usually works out well. I'm sorry a poor management company is causing a problem for you and for the owner too. Good luck!

 

[TotoToo]

Overall this whole thread totally reinforces our feeling we wouldn't enjoy a house rental as a true vacation the way we enjoy our many timeshare visits to various locations every year. We have in the past rented cottages / homes not in the Orlando area and enjoyed it but those were not in high tourist traffic areas thus we didn't expect resort / vacation amenities as we do in Orlando or Anaheim.

Leave housework for the regular life. A vacation should be different and a break from the norm.. No house rentals for us. You've nailed that door shut for us. Thank you.

 

[tink1969]

OMG! I'm laughing while reading your rental woes but I know it's not very funny! I can't believe the state of the unit and the attitude of the property maintenance people! I wouldn't stand for it either.
I'm very picky and would have lost it when I found crumbs in the fridge and gross dishes with lipstick still on them. You should have been provided all the necessary cleaning supplies, extra tp, and crisp, clean bedsheets.
Please don't let it dampen your vacation too much. You are there, just try to brush it off and have fun with your family.
When you get home, call/write/email the owners of the vacations homes and let them know how unhappy you were and won't be recommending them to anyone.
Hope you enjoy the rest of your vacation....sending you some pixie dust

 

[happylittlefamily]

Thanks, hun. Hubby and I prayed together this morning and fully trust that God is in control. We know all things happen for a reason and for a greater good in our faith and so, we must accept that of this situation as well. As a family, we will grow through this and still have had the opportunity to be together, regardless of whether it was spent in theme parks or changing sheets. LOL

We actually are blessed to have a lot of time to travel. My husband works 4 days on/4 days off and I homeschool our 1 child who is of school age, so we are free to travel. Being that we live only a little over 2 hrs from Orlando, we frequent the area often. This is our first encounter of this type in all of our trips, and like I said, we come often. In fact, we'll be back again in a week and a half for another 5 day trip. That being said, I doubt we'll go this route again and will continue to just stick with resorts from now on. I need to be able to trust in consistent accomodations. More than that, the threat-intended or implied-of fees we'd incur as consequence of any issues to arise during our stay are just not worth having to worry about all trip long. I have never had to worry about checking behind door knobs in my kids rooms to make sure they had not been opened too far as to cause an indention on the wall in all the travels we've had until this one. It's really sad, overall. I'm not going to say I wouldn't recommend this home. The owners, like I said earlier, are great. They are very friendly and do want their guests to have a good time and have everything they need. They trust that those things are being provided on their behalf by the people hired to take care of the property. Nobody, until us, have said anything, so either: A-we are insanely picky people who would not be happy no matter what, B-the guests aren't saying anything or noticing any of this stuff, which I find odd, or C-if it's being passed along to the PM from the guests, the owners never know about it because it's being smoothed over. I know for a fact, I'm not a super picky person. I am by no means perfect. I don't have a spotless home. I am one of 8 kids and cleaning wasn't a huge priority in our house. I have 4 little ones of my own that are constantly un-doing everything I do try to clean, so my house is in a constant state of hurricane season. LOL Throw in that we travel a lot and I have not even once had to call one single front desk to fix anything in any of the places we've stayed and not all were Bonnet Creek, my friends. Hee,hee. We are an average family that makes an average income and don't have high standards of anything. I'm a stay at home mom, we have no debt at all, which is why we are able to do our little trips so often. But, I still do my part to make sure I stake out the best deals I can possibly find so we don't spend more than we have to. I cook every single meal, we eat sandwiches in the parks, bring bottled water or iced tea with us, etc. So, it's not like I'm a perfectionist that has a personal housekeeper that deep cleans my home every other week so a stray hair here or there sends me over the edge. But, when the "extra" pillowcases that are in the closet that are supposedly clean have eyelashes on them, it's kind of difficult for me to feel I should trust that the other items I'm going to use against my body and my children's body to sleep and wash are clean as well. That matters! To any guest whether you are staying at a Motel 6 or at a Hyatt!

Anyway, it's after 10am and we really should have already left for the MK this morning, so I want to get going. I just wanted to let you all know how things have been. I hate that this wasn't the greatest experience, especially since WH is so highly recommended. I researched and read reviews like crazy before deciding to come here and passes on a couple other possible options because I got a great deal here and also because we wanted to see what it was like. The stress these first few days have sucked royally though With 4 days left to go, we'll just let God take control since I know I was starting to forget to do so the more upset I was becoming. Thanks everyone. You guys have been awesome and a great sounding board! I am so glad I had a place just to vent and let out all my frustrations on this stuff. I am sure it helped to diffuse the situation much sooner than if I had let myself stew and it helped hubby and I remember to let go

Hugs from Disney
Erica

 

[sjanus]

Wow, sorry you have had to go through all of this. It is a lot of issues for the owner to not know anything about them if they visit their home even yearly. However, some owners put things into the hands of management companies and do not visit regularly. But now that you have alerted them, hopefully things will improve for future guests. Try to relax and enjoy the rest of your time.

Sandy

 

[dis-happy]

Wow. Some of things you originally posted didn't seem that bad (ie. not knowing that toilet paper/paper towels/soap isn't provided) but other things sounded pretty terrible. However, that story of the management company showing up unannounced while you were out is totally WRONG. Unless there is an emergency situation (like a gas leak) or a pre-arranged visit (ie. for bug spraying) they are not allowed to waltz in just because they have a key. And then the story gets worse. Can't believe you are going through all this. You need to post whom you rented from to warn others.

We rented a WH house last summer and while there were a couple of issues they weren't that bad (I had to buy a new can opener 'cuz the one provided just didn't work any longer, no biggie) and when I had to call about a bigger issue someone was there quickly (we had an issue with the pool filter leaking).

In the very least, the owner should be refunding your cleaning deposit to make up for all the cleaning you've had to do.

 

[Darby O'Gill]

I feel much better for you seeing as how the owner seems to have put you at ease, like somebody cares. Thats a good thing, and props to the owner.
Now consider all of the people who this management company will continue to bully, mistreat etc. I promise that this company is breathing a huge sigh of relief in reading that you are hesitant to reveal the companys' name on this board. I hope you reconsider and let the disney fans on this board know who has given you this experience, and then let us decide if we want to take OUR families to the same people.
I know that when I leave for WH soon (YAY), I expect a fun stay and a good service in exchange for my hard earned money, and if I was to find something similar to your trip, I would be all over the boards, the BBB, and trip advisor to name a few.

HAVE A GREAT TIME......YOU'VE EARNED IT!!!!!!!!

 

[LuvMyEAR]

What a horribly disappointing start to your vacation. I hope that your issues are being addressed and am so glad that you were in direct contact with the owner. We've never had a bad experience at WH, or Windsor Palms, but also went in know that consumables such as soap and toilet tissue, etc, were our own responsiblity. Our homes have been consistently clean upon arrival, although once, the coffee maker was not working. I called the PM company before leaving for park that morning and when we arrived home that night, a brand new coffee maker was on the counter in place of the old one.

DD and her family had a whopper, though, booking a whole package through a well-know vacation company. They were contacted by the owner and told to "Get out or he'd call the sherrif" as the third company rental agency had just gone bankrupt and he'd not been paid for the rental of the house! It was a long, hard day on the road with all of their belongings in their rental car, and they were just about to check into a cheap motel when their own vacation company managed to straighten things out and they were allowed to go back to their house!

I hope the remainder of your vacation is truly magical!

 

[happylittlefamily]

For those wanting us to share the info of the unit we are in, I totally understand why sharing that info could benefit others. I just kind of feel reluctant at this point, because honestly, I don't know if it would make matters worse for us right now during our stay and also, like I said, the owners I think would really be the ones punished. I did tell the owner that I think a deep clean is in order. Even more than that, I think they need to come in and just inventory the place. Like, right now, I've done over 25 loads of laundry since Saturday!! Just because I've had to do all the sheets, towels, extra sheets, etc. Of course, our clothes are in there too, but still. But, when I was washing the master sheets, all that is in the master closet as extras are 2 king sized pillowcases. No extra sheets. No blankets. Knowing the comforter has not been likely cleaned in quite some time, we haven't used it, so it's been chilly sleeping with just the top sheet at night. Oh well. The kids rooms only have extra sheet sets. No blankets. Just the comforters that are on the beds. The downstairs bedroom did have a throw blanket, but the extra sheets for that room, like I said in an earlier post, are mismatched, etc. I don't get it. I don't think there are even sheets for the pullout in the living room, should we have needed to use it. I don't know. The master bath had 2 bath towels. No hand towels, no washcloths. The boys bathroom had 2 small bath towels, no hand towels, no washcloths. The downstairs bathroom had 2 decorative bath towels and 1 hand towel. The linen closet had a mismatch of different towels and washcloths available, but still, not what you would expect for a place that sleeps this many. The carpets desperately need to be cleaned. I hope others haven't been charged for carpet stains/messes as if they had to be cleaned, when clearly, that was never done. I just can't believe nobody else has ever said or complained about any of this stuff before!

The cookware is of poor quality. All scratched up and the utensils are very cheap. I know that owners sometimes put less expensive items in their units to avoid it being walked off with, but it just doesn't match the higher quality of the amazing detail of the framed Disney (some signed) wall art, the higher end bedroom furniture, the incredibly comfortable mattresses, the great quality bedding in the master, etc. You can tell the owner took great lengths to make this a magical and beautiful "home" for guests while being at Disney, but then you get ultra thin bath towels that might not completely wrap a 10 yr old! LOL Oh well. Like I said. It's been a learning process for us.

When we get home and settled, I might reveal the unit, just so I can find out if others who have stayed here experienced similar stays. I have to know if I am "anal" as the property manager indicated "some guests can be" or if others just have been afraid to say anything. Because if this is to be expected with each trip, then we will always stick with resorts from here on out. I mean, our biggest complaint with Cypress Pointe Grande Villas and the reason I didn't book with them this time was because I didn't like the lock out unit and the elevator was being serviced when we were departing on our last day and we were on the 4th floor with a double stroller, single stroller, 4 kids, and a cart full of things to bring to the car! LOL We never even peeped to the front desk or to another guest about being annoyed about it. Hubby just helped me unload the kiddos, we carried them down to the car, and he got a hefty work out that morning on the stairs carrying the rest down. LOL

Anyway, I'm almost out of detergent (32 load bottle!!) and I will NOT buy another. I did manage to wash all the spare towels, sheets, all comforters except the king comforter, all bedding that was on the beds except the protective covers that were on the beds. I have to wash and dry the towels before we leave as we are required to by PM, so I should have just enough left for that on Friday night/Saturday morning before we leave. I was going to scrub the pots and pans, but decided that the owners are probably going to order a deep clean now, so I can let them have at it. I'm not getting paid to do all this work! And most likely, after doing all of it, I'd get a comment like, "we didn't find any of the things you complained about." Yeah, because "I" cleaned it all!! I have yet to have slept an entire night through that didn't require getting up at least 3 times to switch over laundry so my kids' days were completely consumed by my having to do laundry. Pathetic, huh?

Do you think it would be wrong to just strip everything before we leave to make sure it is washed again before we leave? Like, the stuff we are currently using that will need to be washed? I want to make sure it is done for the next guests, but I don't want to be charged for making a mess. I was thinking it should be okay if I strip the beds and just line the laundry, already separated to be washed near the washer/dryer. Would that be okay? I have never stayed in these places, so I really don't want to get in trouble for leaving a mess, but I think it would actually be of help to the house cleaner that it's already done for her. What do you think?

Well, we are off to the parks. Thanks so much guys for everything!

 

[sjanus]

I would simply take the sheets off of the beds and put them in the laundry area, and the cleaners will surely wash them, and just leave the beds unmade. I would load and start the dishwasher, and if time permitted start a load of your last minute towels.

Most of all, I would reconnect all electronics and place all furniture and decorations back in original locations. This is probably the most important, especially electronics, as this could incur a charge. Cleaners will not be cognizant of this and if noticed in the walk through, management or maintenance will have to spend a lot of time to do this. It is not ordinary for guests to disassemble the electronics. This could be complicated to reconnect.

Windsor Hills is a lovely place with many positive reviews on these Boards. Individual experiences can vary as many factors are involved in operating a short term rental unit or home. They also vary in other resorts, as well as in hotels, condo hotels, motels, etc. It is unfortunate your first experience with a short term rental has been disappointing.

Have a safe trip home!

Sandy

 

[Schriver2]

I have been following your posts since the beginning, I feel for you! I have never posted on this forum, but I thought it might be helpful to you.

It is unfortunate that your vacation went so awry, I can relate, we had a similar situation at a beach house years ago. Not to throw a wet blanket on the great "reveal", but you may want to consider what the affect on you will be for doing such a highly visible (and highly read) reveal.

You mention "punishing" the owner. However, the owner and in this case the management company of the house have methods to punish you now that you have made this a public issue. Up to this point, you are OK, but when you reveal who owns this house (or who manages this house), you could quickly (with lots of followers to your posts) become a defendant in a tort and libel suit. I see this every day in my line of work and just want to make you aware.

In a libel action, the plaintiff (the owner or management company in this case) must prove three elements of the tort of libel:

The statement has been made to a third party. (you have done that)

The statement referred to the plaintiff (the owner/management company).

This does not mean that the statement has to refer expressly to the plaintiff. A statement can be actionable if it is reasonably capable of referring to the plaintiff. You are close to this but not yet fully "over the line" as we call it. So far it's a difficult case for the plaintiff, but once you "reveal", you have precisely referred to the plaintiff.

The statement must be defamatory/false, which means that it must be a statement to the plaintiff's discredit. Many internet bloggers with opinions on products and people have been sued and are paying out settlements to those that they defamed because the plaintiffs were able to prove libel, and that the negative public statements of the defendant had a material negative effect on business.

So, while others may “egg you on”, remember that it is you and you alone (not them) who will be hauled into court, be forced to hire legal representation, and to defend yourself and your claims, of which I feel certain the other party would not agree and have facts to prove at least some of your charges baseless. You mention having no debt. You would then have debt, and a lot of it. All because of a vacation?

Many attorneys scour the net looking for this type of case to take on (they are called internet ambulance chasers) and would contact the management company or owner name of the house as soon as you posted it to go after you.

Most posters think opinion is protected. Not always. If your opinion implies that it is based upon an underlying set of facts, you may be in hot water. As I see from your posts, you state both facts and opinions throughout. Again, just looking out for you and your family, as you seem nice and I don't want to see you go over the line.

As I say, I can relate to your issues, as we had the beach house nightmare. Sometimes it’s better to chalk it up to experience, and move on. Either way you decide, good luck with the rest of your vacation, sounds like you are having a little bit of fun anyway. I thought you might want to consider these facts as you blog your experience. Even if you can eventually win in litigation, you still end up paying out a lot of money in order to defend yourself. And from how terrible a picture you have painted in the posts, you are certainly setting yourself up to create a business problem for the owner, or at least the management company.

Have a good final part of your week, and try to enjoy the rest of your vacation.

 

[happylittlefamily]

I appreciate your concern. I actually have a degree in pre-law, so I'm pretty certain I am capable of knowing how to protect our family from being put in a position of this ever being brought to court. Honestly, if it ever were, we have more than enough on our side to protect ourselves should that be the case.

Further, any property management company or owner who would take a guest to court for being dissatisfied with their stay due to it being in poor condition is on that should be called out! How pathetic would it be that they would ever do such a thing simply because a guest was leaving a detailed review of their experience. Many people spend a year or longer saving for trips to come to Disney and research for hours and hours to find the location they choose to stay while here in Orlando. To be forced to keep quiet about a location because I'd be afraid of being taken to court, would be an entirely selfish act on my part. Now, that's not saying that I "hate" this place or anything. Clearly, we've experienced many headaches that have kept us from truly enjoying it to its fullest, however, that doesn't mean that it's a complete dump. After a deep clean, maybe replacing kitchen cookware and utensils because they are very worn and taking inventory to make sure there is enough for all guests as far as towels, etc., it would be a much improved situation. That, and, definitely being on top of house cleaning. After washing the "clean" sheets, there were a lot of long black hairs in the lint traps, which is not normal. This is coming from a stay at home mom who has 4 kids and does a ton of laundry and knows her lint trap rather well. LOL

Like I said, I appreciate you looking out for me and your concern for any legal implications we may face for "outing" the unit we are in, but in my opinion, our "detailed review" of our stay is just that. And would only be a service to those looking to spend their money on a vacation rental. I did take lots of pictures to protect myself, once PM started with the "fee threats," which is ridiculous. I am not buying the place. I'm only staying here for a week and shouldn't have to feel I need to document if a stain is on the carpet before we arrive or not. However, after the response we received the night they came by, it was apparent that doing so was a necessity to protect us. I hate that I've missed so much time on our vacation to enjoy going to explore the ammenities of the community here, only to have to be here to "keep house." Oh well. When we come back for our next stay in a week and a half, we'll be booking with a resort. I need a vacation from our "vacation." Hee,hee!

 

[happylittlefamily]

FWIW, I do want to add, that I would NEVER consider taking this issue to court. I think that is insane! Despite my degree, I don't really believe in suing one another. As a Christian, I try to let God be my judge. I think most anything can be resolved without getting to the point of a lawsuit, so I would be most sad if the owner or property management company took it that far simply because I'm reporting my honest-to-goodness experience during my stay here.

Also, I don't know why you refer to it as a "great reveal" because it was never claimed to be as such. If I do choose to reveal the unit we are staying, it would be more to know if others have experienced similar issues and been hesitant to say so and to allow future guests know about the home more thoroughly when determining where they choose to stay on vacation. If they find no issue with what we are experiencing, then they will have no reason not to stay here. If they would prefer to not deal with such issues, or would prefer a place that offers more supplies, etc., that knowledge surely would be beneficial to them. However, I would not want it to harm the owners. As I have stated over and over and OVER again, the place simply needs a deep clean, inventory replacement/update, maintanence repairs, and most likely a new house cleaner. I feel bad saying the latter, as she is quite nice and friendly, but she does seem to miss a lot. Or maybe they need to extend the hours between check out and check in so she has more time to clean. Regardless, whatever they have going on now isn't working. In my opinion, anyway. I am curious to know, by reveal, if others who have stayed here have experienced the same, since the guest book does not say anything indicating such things.

The next guests should be better off than we are, as we have done all of the laundry and brought to light some of the issues, getting them repaired already. Also, I washed almost every dish in the kitchen by hand, to ensure it was done properly and to waste less water.

Anyway, I just wanted to explain that I have no intention of taking this any further, as far as court or anything. And I'd hope the owners/PM would also consider it a learning experience as well. Guests should be just that. Not free labor.

 

[kidshop]

The statement must be defamatory/false, which means that it must be a statement to the plaintiff's discredit. Many internet bloggers with opinions on products and people have been sued and are paying out settlements to those that they defamed because the plaintiffs were able to prove libel, and that the negative public statements of the defendant had a material negative effect on business.

You mention having no debt. You would then have debt, and a lot of it. All because of a vacation?

Many attorneys scour the net looking for this type of case to take on (they are called internet ambulance chasers) and would contact the management company or owner name of the house as soon as you posted it to go after you.

Most posters think opinion is protected. Not always. If your opinion implies that it is based upon an underlying set of facts, you may be in hot water. As I see from your posts, you state both facts and opinions throughout. Again, just looking out for you and your family, as you seem nice and I don't want to see you go over the line.

As I say, I can relate to your issues, as we had the beach house nightmare. Sometimes it’s better to chalk it up to experience, and move on. Either way you decide, good luck with the rest of your vacation, sounds like you are having a little bit of fun anyway. I thought you might want to consider these facts as you blog your experience. Even if you can eventually win in litigation, you still end up paying out a lot of money in order to defend yourself. And from how terrible a picture you have painted in the posts, you are certainly setting yourself up to create a business problem for the owner, or at least the management company.

Have a good final part of your week, and try to enjoy the rest of your vacation.

You sound like you might be an ambulance chaser or the management company! What if what the poster stated are facts, backed up by pictures? What if it's true? Don't scare her into pretending the house is being kept when it isn't.

Maybe the management company should be more concerned with keeping their places nice and customers happy rather than trying to shut up those who point out the poor care of the house. I think the management is setting themselves up for a business problem, not the OP.

 

[mnrose]

I appreciate your concern. I actually have a degree in pre-law, so I'm pretty certain I am capable of knowing how to protect our family from being put in a position of this ever being brought to court.

Trying to say this as gently as possible. A pre law degree (whatever that is) is NOT a law degree. I spent three years in law school. I have a law degree. And, I practiced law for more than 20 years, and I don't think even I would make this statement that you made.

And, while I agree with you that you could well "win" a lawsuit brought by the property management company or owner, it might be a pretty hollow victory, after you've shelled out thousands of dollars for attorney's fees, and invested possible years of emotional energy in litigation. Winning isn't everything in litigation...and unfortunately, there are plenty of unscrupulous attorneys out there who know EXACTLY what they are doing in suing someone. They know that you are far more likely to back down, be forced to issue a public apology to the owners, etc....rather than spending thousands of dollars and years of your life fighting litigation. Happens all the time.

Lest I be accused of being such an unscrupulous attorney, I will also add that in my more than 20 years of practicing law, I never, ever sued anyone for anything. I worked purely the civil defense side of litigation. I have seen first hand the pain caused by even unmeritorious lawsuits.

Good luck.