Universal now requiring documentation be sent to a third party for accessibility

[heyitsmejosh]

I will say it seems like the company accepted my general VA benefit letter as accepted documentation. It doesn’t say anything more than that I have service connected disabilities and that I am considered totally and permanently disabled.

 

[OurBigTrip]

If they only get the regular access pass, then this policy definitely violates ADA as that is equal access with no monetary value.

Not necessarily. The monetary value isn't necessarily relevant. All that Universal has to demonstrate is that the average guest utilizing the disability pass as it exists now is enjoying, on average, more attractions than a guest that isn't utilizing the disability pass, i.e., unequal/better enjoyment of the parks. I'm not saying that is the case, although I suspect it is, and if it is, then they can ask for proof of disability.

 

[lanejudy]

But I really question a practice that would mandate a well visit at 6 months, as there’s no medical necessity for it. The OOP cost of another office visit with a provider is wildly out of line with the cost of the amount of work for a nurse to fill out a basic camp physical. In that case, since insurance can’t be billed, it’s fair to charge a fee, but not hundreds of dollars for a superfluous office visit. I’d be looking for a new provider because that’s shady.

My DD has frequent check-ins with her PED so I have never encountered this personally. But when I asked someone who works at that practice the reason was that many kids do not get their annual check-ups or not on schedule (every 12 months), therefore the records may be well over a year old and the doctors in that practice want current vitals and eyes on the child if signing their name to a document. I can't speak to why 6 mos vs 12 mos nor how often they enforce it, just that it is their posted policy.

 

[lanejudy]

My points aren't unrealistic, as that is how they are treated at Six Flags, if you need ANY assistance, including just bypassing stairs, you have to have the card. I doubt Universal will be any different.

I haven't been to a Six Flags in a long time. But if the accessible entrance is an alternate entrance, possibly with low wait, I can understand requiring the registration. That would mean "equal" accommodation is not available because the ramp is at a different location than the ramp.

My question -- which probably can only be answered by a lawyer specializing in disability law -- was whether the ADA actually requires that a lower/equal accommodation be offered in addition to a "better than eequal"accommodation. Proof can be required when the accommodation is greater.

 

[HopperFan]

I haven't been to a Six Flags in a long time. But if the accessible entrance is an alternate entrance, possibly with low wait, I can understand requiring the registration. That would mean "equal" accommodation is not available because the ramp is at a different location than the ramp.

My question -- which probably can only be answered by a lawyer specializing in disability law -- was whether the ADA actually requires that a lower/equal accommodation be offered in addition to a "better than eequal"accommodation. Proof can be required when the accommodation is greater.

At our Six Flags the entrance for the disability pass is the same as the Flash Pass - the paid "fast pass" service. They've required documentation for many years without issue.

 

[lanejudy]

At our Six Flags the entrance for the disability pass is the same as the Flash Pass - the paid "fast pass" service. They've required documentation for many years without issue.

Thanks, that's what I thought. I haven't been to UO but my impression is they have at least some accessible queues, so may not plan to use this pre-registration for basic wheelchair access.

 

[Evita_W]

I haven't been to a Six Flags in a long time. But if the accessible entrance is an alternate entrance, possibly with low wait, I can understand requiring the registration. That would mean "equal" accommodation is not available because the ramp is at a different location than the ramp.

My question -- which probably can only be answered by a lawyer specializing in disability law -- was whether the ADA actually requires that a lower/equal accommodation be offered in addition to a "better than eequal"accommodation. Proof can be required when the accommodation is greater.

DH has spoken with an ADA lawyer before and if equal access is not provided because superior access (or access with monetary value) is, they cannot require proof for that superior access.

A lot of transportation agencies got in trouble for this. They had a policy that said those that are disabled were able to ride for free (or reduced rates) if they provided proof of disability and got a card from the agency to show that. Ok, that part is fine, the problem was they weren't allowing people without that card that were disabled to ride at all, even if they were willing to pay full fare. That practice was deemed a violation of ADA law and this is similar, if there is no way to enjoy the attraction without the card, say due to physical barriers, then proof cannot be required. Yes, they had to pay the same rate as regular guests (not a preferred price) if they didn't provide proof.

 

[Evita_W]

At our Six Flags the entrance for the disability pass is the same as the Flash Pass - the paid "fast pass" service. They've required documentation for many years without issue.

Right, but if that is the only option available for those with disabilities, you cannot require proof. And pawning it off on a third party doesn't work either.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Right, but if that is the only option available for those with disabilities, you cannot require proof. And pawning it off on a third party doesn't work either.

And yet it’s been in place for years with no lawsuits.

 

[Evita_W]

And yet it’s been in place for years with no lawsuits.

Because the type of crowd that goes to Six Flags doesn't have the money for lawsuits, they cost a lot and ADA lawyers don't generally take them on without getting paid a decent amount upfront.

This will be different with Universal and if Disney ever tried it, watch out.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Because the type of crowd that goes to Six Flags doesn't have the money for lawsuits, they cost a lot and ADA lawyers don't generally take them on without getting paid a decent amount upfront.

This will be different with Universal and if Disney ever tried it, watch out.

Wow.

 

[HopperFan]

Right, but if that is the only option available for those with disabilities, you cannot require proof. And pawning it off on a third party doesn't work either.

You have no idea if that is the only option. It is the "lane" they use for folks who are approved for this particular pass. It may be that all the lines are ADA complaint for physical limitations.

"Pawning it off"? They are hiring specialists to help them navigate what is becoming a big issue and not depending on their in person team members who don't have the training. Given that this company specializes in this, I don't think they are worried.

Because the type of crowd that goes to Six Flags doesn't have the money for lawsuits, they cost a lot and ADA lawyers don't generally take them on without getting paid a decent amount upfront.

This will be different with Universal and if Disney ever tried it, watch out.

Aside from the GROSS insult ..

This is a GLOBAL company and they have been providing this service to theme parks and business for many years. It is their specialty. They do training for companies. They know what they are doing.

 

[Jellybean9]

I’m pretty sure when Jennifer Keelan was crawling up the steps of the US Capitol to fight for the Americans with Disabilities Act she was fighting for ramps and actual life necessities….not for front of the line access at Universal because someone has to use the bathroom frequently or just “can’t handle crowds”. The 3rd party service sounds like a very manageable option for those who have a disability and enough of a deterrent for most of the bad actors.

Because the type of crowd that goes to Six Flags doesn't have the money for lawsuits, they cost a lot and ADA lawyers don't generally take them on without getting paid a decent amount upfront.

This will be different with Universal and if Disney ever tried it, watch out.

 

[Evita_W]

I’m pretty sure when Jennifer Keelan was crawling up the steps of the US Capitol to fight for the Americans with Disabilities Act she was fighting for ramps and actual life necessities….not for front of the line access at Universal because someone has to use the bathroom frequently or just “can’t handle crowds”. The 3rd party service sounds like a very manageable option for those who have a disability and enough of a deterrent for most of the bad actors.

Actually, it encourages the bad actors to act even worse, as I mentioned previously, history has proven this. And I am not saying front of the line access, I am saying the ability to skip stairs and no, at our Six Flags not all lines are accessible. And she was fighting for equal access to EVERYTHING, not just necessities. Again, not saying superior access, but equal access must exist without the need for proof.

 

[HopperFan]

Thanks, that's what I thought. I haven't been to UO but my impression is they have at least some accessible queues, so may not plan to use this pre-registration for basic wheelchair access.

We don't use a wheelchair at Universal but there are plenty of others who have. Getting this card will do nothing to change the process at Universal, they would still do it the same way in park. I imagine we would still have to go pick up our PASS as usual. You need the hard pass to make the system work and this company is not providing that. We just dropped our UO APs so I won't be testing it for a few years.

You know reading here the few that got approved with what seemed like irrelevant documentation in terms of it directly explaining what issues/needs a guest has with theme park queues??? And I've been cruising several other sites where there were lots who got approved with basically nothing that would be helpful. Then we are hearing that folks will be called by Universal to discuss their needs and determine what they would even do for them?? It almost sounds like nothing more than an extra step to get to the Pre-Qualifying TMs.

This card is not developed specifically for theme parks, it is used by other businesses to get a person's needs predetermined. And there are still steps after that. I think that is where some of the confusion is happening with wheelchairs and service dogs etc. Some businesses will need to make adjustments for those things but the theme parks are already way ahead of that.

The more I read I don't even know if Disney is even looking at this. It's been around for years. When Disney announced their new pre-qualify I thought they were going to hire this company - but they built their own system. Maybe they determined why pay a company to just add a step since it's not specific to their business, and then Disney CMs would still have to go through the approval. Maybe if approval is so easy it would be a detriment to Disney because guests that were approved would expect Disney to also approve. And Disney doesn't need the wheelchair, dog, steps, visual etc accommodations, that is in place.

But if Disney has 25% of guests attached to a DAS, they probably need to do something. And perhaps they will watch and see how it works for UO and adjustments they can just make at their end on their own.

 

[Evita_W]

You have no idea if that is the only option. It is the "lane" they use for folks who are approved for this particular pass. It may be that all the lines are ADA complaint for physical limitations.

"Pawning it off"? They are hiring specialists to help them navigate what is becoming a big issue and not depending on their in person team members who don't have the training. Given that this company specializes in this, I don't think they are worried.



Aside from the GROSS insult ..

This is a GLOBAL company and they have been providing this service to theme parks and business for many years. It is their specialty. They do training for companies. They know what they are doing.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but generally speaking they don't, Six Flags is filled with teenagers running amok (at least ours is). This is based on our experience here, I cannot attest to other Six Flags for sure, but definitely seems to be the case from everything I have seen.

Additionally, Six Flags doesn't have the money that Disney or Universal does, there is no money from either side in filing a lawsuit against Six Flags, suing Universal will be a different story for someone out there.

 

[herdtoDisney]

Does Disney actually have 25% of guests attached to a DAS? That seems so high. Just in my experience using one with my dd, we're usually the only ones with the CM getting a return time. We don't do any 'newest and greatest' type rides (dd won't go on most rides) so I can't speak to those.

As a family using DAS, we also don't use it for everything we ride-dd only needs it for rides with indoor/loud/dark lines. We don't use it for rides where she can wait calmly in an outside line (sensory issues). I don't know if other people use DAS for all their rides. I just wonder if the DAS is really used so much and is an issue.

 

[DVCPAT]

People abuse these programs and that needs to stop. Not every medical condition that creates a disability will benefit from a theme park disability pass. That's why they don't grant it to everyone who asks.

100% agree…. As I stand in the DAS line on the first day of vacation with my autistic grandson…. It’s rough and we can barely get him through the process. 1st day is always the toughest.
As we stand in the DAS line, the vast majority of people are smiling and have no visible issues waiting in a long line that seems to get longer every year. I think to myself Disney is going to cancel the DAS benefit because it’s being abused. When/if Disney does cancel it..,it will be a sad day because the people that truly need it, won’t be able to enjoy the little bit of entertainment they have access to.

 

[lanejudy]

Does Disney actually have 25% of guests attached to a DAS?

That is somebody's estimate, which I believe is also calculated from an estimate of the number of LL sold (not sure if that is G+ and/or ILL$). To my knowledge, WDW doesn't share any of those variables. So how accurate is the 25% is anyone's guess.

 

[HopperFan]

Does Disney actually have 25% of guests attached to a DAS? That seems so high.

Nobody really knows but the person who shared the info is a very reputable with inside connections. Disney now has the system set up that they do know exactly how many scan through with DAS and Genie+.

Just in my experience using one with my dd, we're usually the only ones with the CM getting a return time. We don't do any 'newest and greatest' type rides (dd won't go on most rides) so I can't speak to those.

I will say we've had the opposite. We are one of many groups that are turning blue and immediately without question going through the line. On some of the bigger more popular rides there are plenty who use it. My DS is clearly disabled but not everyone who uses it is.

As a family using DAS, we also don't use it for everything we ride-dd only needs it for rides with indoor/loud/dark lines. We don't use it for rides where she can wait calmly in an outside line (sensory issues). I don't know if other people use DAS for all their rides. I just wonder if the DAS is really used so much and is an issue.

When there was FP+ we primarily used that with the DAS maybe once or twice a day. And not long ago the pass was a hard pass you would show. Any given ride so many people entered the FP line flashing the card. It's one reason they moved from GAC to DAS, overuse.

Now with FP+ gone we find ourselves using the DAS more. One of DS issues is humans and human noise ... so hard to avoid that close up in lines. Switchbacks are the worse because he feels trapped among them and panic can come fast. There are lines he manages without and we try to make it work using as little as possible.

Based on the history of the DAS and GAC, based on Genie+ now a fee based system, now that Disney took away 3 prebooked FP+ but added 2 prebooked DAS ... I have no doubt that they are back to an overuse issue.