Universal now requiring documentation be sent to a third party for accessibility

[heyitsmejosh]

No one knows what they are thinking. If I were to guess, if they choose to follow suit, I don't think Disney will flip a switch. I think they give more notice because their guests are planning much farther in advance, booking hotels and much more planning than the average guest at Universal. I think guests will have time make decisions.



THIS Often Disney and Universal play chicken waiting for the other to make a move. Universal's pass has always been harder to get and their Express Pass is much more expensive aka bigger losses. They'll watch for now and if I were to guess I would not be surprised to see it executed for 2024 when other big changes are happening. Fingers crossed they don't but I don't think this current program is a keeper.

Time will tell, but we all need to be prepared.

The only reason why I don’t think Disney will change their current system is because it’s already been litigated in court and found to be a fair and equitable system. This process hasn’t yet and if Disney were adopt it there is no doubt in my mind that lawsuits would be filed very quickly.

 

[HopperFan]

The only reason why I don’t think Disney will change their current system is because it’s already been litigated in court and found to be a fair and equitable system. This process hasn’t yet and if Disney were adopt it there is no doubt in my mind that lawsuits would be filed very quickly.

The lawsuits were litigated as DAS vs GAC. FP and FP+ were free components that could be used to compliment it. This is a whole new ballgame.

NOW we have Genie+ which in essence puts a monetary value on the DAS return times. If there were to be a lawsuit it would be from typical guests suing because they have to pay for Genie+ but DAS users are getting return times for FREE. And DAS users can repeat rides but Genie+ can not, another advantage.

When FP & FP+ were free the argument against proof was that DAS users were not getting anything above and beyond materially. And it was true. We used the FP+ system 90% of the time, only getting a DAS time for a handful of attractions. Both free. Once you put a price tag on the Genie+ you have now moved the DAS return times into an item with monetary value that you are giving free to a group of people, but charging the rest. Plus you are offering two in advance for free. In that situation parks gain the ability to ask for proof.

 

[Lilsia]

If they go to this new system, it pretty much goes against everything that they say they want to know now. It would be giving the cast members a diagnosis and as we all know, not everyone with the same diagnosis needs a DAS. So I can't see how this would be any more helpful. People think that it would cut down on abuse, but I think that more people would end up just having a doctor fill out the form. They had that problem with GAC, when doctors would write a note saying that someone needs accommodations.
They don't test adults for anxiety or ADHD, they just take your word for it.

 

[Lilsia]

The lawsuits were litigated as DAS vs GAC. FP and FP+ were free components that could be used to compliment it. This is a whole new ballgame.

NOW we have Genie+ which in essence puts a monetary value on the DAS return times. If there were to be a lawsuit it would be from typical guests suing because they have to pay for Genie+ but DAS users are getting return times for FREE. And DAS users can repeat rides but Genie+ can not, another advantage.

When FP & FP+ were free the argument against proof was that DAS users were not getting anything above and beyond materially. And it was true. We used the FP+ system 90% of the time, only getting a DAS time for a handful of attractions. Both free. Once you put a price tag on the Genie+ you have now moved the DAS return times into an item with monetary value that you are giving free to a group of people, but charging the rest. Plus you are offering two in advance for free. In that situation parks gain the ability to ask for proof.

But DAS isn't like Genie+. The DAS users wait to get on the ride just like those waiting in the standby line. Genie+ gives you extra rides that you can get on with minimal wait. If DAS was just like Genie+, then they would just give those who apply for DAS Genie+ for free.

 

[heyitsmejosh]

The lawsuits were litigated as DAS vs GAC. FP and FP+ were free components that could be used to compliment it. This is a whole new ballgame.

NOW we have Genie+ which in essence puts a monetary value on the DAS return times. If there were to be a lawsuit it would be from typical guests suing because they have to pay for Genie+ but DAS users are getting return times for FREE. And DAS users can repeat rides but Genie+ can not, another advantage.

When FP & FP+ were free the argument against proof was that DAS users were not getting anything above and beyond materially. And it was true. We used the FP+ system 90% of the time, only getting a DAS time for a handful of attractions. Both free. Once you put a price tag on the Genie+ you have now moved the DAS return times into an item with monetary value that you are giving free to a group of people, but charging the rest. Plus you are offering two in advance for free. In that situation parks gain the ability to ask for proof.

Don’t think that would matter a disabled person can’t argue that Disney isn’t giving a reasonable accommodation when a judge has already said it’s a reasonable accommodation. If they change the system then they would open themselves up to more potential lawsuits. Also the DAS isn’t the same as genie plus you still have a wait time based on the current standby wait.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Don’t think that would matter a disabled person can’t argue that Disney isn’t giving a reasonable accommodation when a judge has already said it’s a reasonable accommodation. If they change the system then they would open themselves up to more potential lawsuits. Also the DAS isn’t the same as genie plus you still have a wait time based on the current standby wait.

The game changer is that Genie+ costs money. Overall, the DAS is better than Genie+, and it’s free. I think that’s what might open the door to requiring proof.

 

[HopperFan]

But DAS isn't like Genie+. The DAS users wait to get on the ride just like those waiting in the standby line. Genie+ gives you extra rides that you can get on with minimal wait. If DAS was just like Genie+, then they would just give those who apply for DAS Genie+ for free.

Disagree. They are very comparable. A return time for a ride: one pays, one doesn't.

I don't know about the minimal wait for Genie+, based on my experience and MANY on here they are only getting 3-5 rides per day for that money. We can easily ride more than that with DAS for free.

Bottom line G+ changed the perspective for Disney. Surprised that Universal waited so long since their Express Pass is expensive. Six Flags went for proof needed when they added Flash Pass.

I get it, I don't want to jump through the hoops. Disney is up on that pedestal that tends to forget they are a business. They moved GAC to DAS. They changed the DAS. I still don't think the program is working well. I think we can all see the moves they made in the last year or so that they are beginning to tighten up, close loops and beginning to monetize more.

Open any social media and you will see step by step instructions on how to get a DAS ... return times for free.

Don’t think that would matter a disabled person can’t argue that Disney isn’t giving a reasonable accommodation when a judge has already said it’s a reasonable accommodation. If they change the system then they would open themselves up to more potential lawsuits. Also the DAS isn’t the same as genie plus you still have a wait time based on the current standby wait.

A judge has not ruled on the current situation. What they ruled on has nothing to do with the current situation. They already changed the system recently with this call in process. Typical guests could legit sue about that.

Both Genie+ and DAS are given a return time. Genie+ might give you a quick return time on something but it's not to say you want it, and likely the quick return time is because the line is short. Again - they both give you access to the LL without having to wait in the SB lane.

The game changer is that Genie+ costs money. Overall, the DAS is better than Genie+, and it’s free. I think that’s what might open the door to requiring proof.

THIS and I've been saying it since they gave us Genie+ and they gave DAS holders 2 in advance free essentially Genie+ times.

The minute they monetized FP+ it changed the whole landscape for DAS, and sadly Disney made it even worse with the freebies.

Add DAS will let you ride the same ride over and over, Genie+ does not.

 

[heyitsmejosh]

The game changer is that Genie+ costs money. Overall, the DAS is better than Genie+, and it’s free. I think that’s what might open the door to requiring proof.

That’s not the point I’m not a disability lawyer so I can’t say where that would go but if they don’t change the system they don’t have to worry about additional lawsuits. If they do change it they open themselves up to new filings over the system.

 

[HopperFan]

That’s not the point I’m not a disability lawyer so I can’t say where that would go but if they don’t change the system they don’t have to worry about additional lawsuits. If they do change it they open themselves up to new filings over the system.

So you are saying if they move to a third party certification system they will be sued?

So Universal will be sued, I haven't heard if Six Flags has been sued the years they have been doing it, Sesame Place is using it, some water parks, Knoebels. Growing industry.

Disney hiring a global company that does third party certifications, certification programs like Autism which is rapidly being utilized around the world, accreditations, certifications, licenses would be the smart move. It would remove decision making from Disney employees and therefore move the accountability to a reputable program. It is likely that Disney would be less liable by letting "professional" business make decisions rather than the CM who is unqualified. The process is already acceptable and legal so not sure what the lawsuit basis would be ... change?

Again the bigger threat to lawsuits is the typical guests suing because the advantages being given for free with DAS.

-----------------

I like many other families here are thankful to have the DAS program and not having it would drastically change our experience at the parks. I want nothing to change (except maybe ditch the 2 in advance to keep it less attractive). But in the end Disney is a business that often opens itself to abuse and I don't see how they continue down this path they are on. Social Media has made DAS very well known.

 

[Lilsia]

Disagree. They are very comparable. A return time for a ride: one pays, one doesn't.

I don't know about the minimal wait for Genie+, based on my experience and MANY on here they are only getting 3-5 rides per day for that money. We can easily ride more than that with DAS for free.

Bottom line G+ changed the perspective for Disney. Surprised that Universal waited so long since their Express Pass is expensive. Six Flags went for proof needed when they added Flash Pass.

I get it, I don't want to jump through the hoops. Disney is up on that pedestal that tends to forget they are a business. They moved GAC to DAS. They changed the DAS. I still don't think the program is working well. I think we can all see the moves they made in the last year or so that they are beginning to tighten up, close loops and beginning to monetize more.

Open any social media and you will see step by step instructions on how to get a DAS ... return times for free.


A judge has not ruled on the current situation. What they ruled on has nothing to do with the current situation. They already changed the system recently with this call in process. Typical guests could legit sue about that.

Both Genie+ and DAS are given a return time. Genie+ might give you a quick return time on something but it's not to say you want it, and likely the quick return time is because the line is short. Again - they both give you access to the LL without having to wait in the SB lane.



THIS and I've been saying it since they gave us Genie+ and they gave DAS holders 2 in advance free essentially Genie+ times.

The minute they monetized FP+ it changed the whole landscape for DAS, and sadly Disney made it even worse with the freebies.

Add DAS will let you ride the same ride over and over, Genie+ does not.

No, Genie+ gets you a few extra rides where you don't have to wait the standby time for. DAS has you waiting that time. They are NOT the same. If they were, then Disney would just give people the Genie+ for free. People are not getting "more rides for free" as they are still waiting as if they were in the standby line. That is why many with DAS still purchase Genie+. You are acting as if people are setting up a DAS return time and then going and waiting in a standby line and that is not the case for the majority of people. People have DAS because they can not wait in the regular standby line. I think that you are imagining people using DAS the exact same way as they use Genie+ but that is not the case for many people. They are not going on other rides while waiting for their return time.

 

[bambialways4ever]

If they go to this new system, it pretty much goes against everything that they say they want to know now. It would be giving the cast members a diagnosis and as we all know, not everyone with the same diagnosis needs a DAS. So I can't see how this would be any more helpful. People think that it would cut down on abuse, but I think that more people would end up just having a doctor fill out the form. They had that problem with GAC, when doctors would write a note saying that someone needs accommodations.
They don't test adults for anxiety or ADHD, they just take your word for it.

As far as I understand it, Disney and the cast members don't have access to this information. Just this third party company.

 

[bambialways4ever]

How so? You can upload any government document that certifies your disability. Many adults with disabilities are enrolled in state or county specific support programs for adults. Adults who are conserved or placed under guardianship have a court document stating such. Disabled adult veterans have VA documentation stating their disabilities. Anyone else with a legitimate disability and need for accommodations should be under the care of a doctor who would have no problem writing a basic letter (or, better, just signing their name to a letter that you pre write for them). My son's psychiatrist didn't charge me to generate a letter that we needed to submit to a government agency showing that he was an adult dependent child with a disability that does not allow him to be self sufficient in terms of gainful employment. She didn't charge a penny for it. We asked during a routine appointment. She very helpfully added his diagnoses and summarized his limitations. This is a routine ask of doctors who care for patients with disabilities. It is needed for a LOT of services and benefit programs.

You're really fortunate your son's psychiatrist doesn't charge a fee for that sort of thing.

Our psychiatrist has a $200 fee for any paperwork.

 

[GinnyBear's_mom]

I just filled out the online form and received the temporary card. I included the front page of my 504 from work dated August 2022 so hopefully that is enough. My doctor who submitted the verification of my limitations for my 504 just left her practice 2 weeks ago so fingers crossed that isn't a problem if they need to contact her, I have no idea what practice she moved to.

 

[eticketplease]

You're really fortunate your son's psychiatrist doesn't charge a fee for that sort of thing.

Our psychiatrist has a $200 fee for any paperwork.

Hopefully the normal doctor doesn’t charge this or there is an online system like the OP had that you can print something out.

No, Genie+ gets you a few extra rides where you don't have to wait the standby time for. DAS has you waiting that time. They are NOT the same. If they were, then Disney would just give people the Genie+ for free. People are not getting "more rides for free" as they are still waiting as if they were in the standby line. That is why many with DAS still purchase Genie+. You are acting as if people are setting up a DAS return time and then going and waiting in a standby line and that is not the case for the majority of people. People have DAS because they can not wait in the regular standby line. I think that you are imagining people using DAS the exact same way as they use Genie+ but that is not the case for many people. They are not going on other rides while waiting for their return time.

I totally am in agreement with this.

Genie+ you pick your return time from the list given and you can now modify it. You can also stack multiple rides which you can not do with DAS. DAS varies based on the ride wait time and you can not stack nor can it be modified to an earlier time. If the person wants to ride 7 dwarfs you will be in the Que for 120 minutes but if it is Ariel it may be only 15 minutes. Your party can then take care of certain other things while waiting for your spot. There have been many occasions when we have a DAS but we abandon it as DS can’t handle anymore and wants to leave.

Another thing is we can not make a DAS without all people scanning in to the park where Genie+ you can make a selection before it opens. Yes I know you can make an advance reservation for two rides but because those are tied to specific times like genie+ I do not count them. We very rarely make them as it all depends on how DS is feeling. At the end of the day it is all about making DS feel comfortable within the environment of Disney and DAS allows him to enjoy it even if just getting a cat tail, getting on Astro Orbiter getting his DVC stickers and leaving.

 

[HopperFan]

No, Genie+ gets you a few extra rides where you don't have to wait the standby time for. DAS has you waiting that time. They are NOT the same. If they were, then Disney would just give people the Genie+ for free. People are not getting "more rides for free" as they are still waiting as if they were in the standby line. That is why many with DAS still purchase Genie+. You are acting as if people are setting up a DAS return time and then going and waiting in a standby line and that is not the case for the majority of people. People have DAS because they can not wait in the regular standby line. I think that you are imagining people using DAS the exact same way as they use Genie+ but that is not the case for many people. They are not going on other rides while waiting for their return time.

Completely disagree with you. They are going on rides with shorter less stressful lines, or seeing shows, or dining, or meeting a character or resting with a snack. They aren’t just standing in the middle of the park doing nothing waiting for their next ride. They are doing something just like the person waiting for their next Genie+ time is doing something.

 

[eticketplease]

Completely disagree with you. They are going on rides with shorter less stressful lines, or seeing shows, or dining, or meeting a character or resting with a snack. They aren’t just standing in the middle of the park doing nothing waiting for their next ride. They are doing something just like the person waiting for their next Genie+ time is doing something.

Of course they are not just standing in the middle of the park doing nothing. We are not walking across the park for a less stressful line just to come all the way back. We certainly don’t have the ability to wait for characters in a normal line. We will probably grab a snack, use the restroom or just wait in a shaded area or inside by guest relations in liberty square. All parties are different which is what makes DAS unique in helping multiple families enjoy the magic as much as possible with regards to their circumstances.

 

[bambialways4ever]

Hopefully the normal doctor doesn’t charge this or there is an online system like the OP had that you can print something out.

I totally am in agreement with this.

Genie+ you pick your return time from the list given and you can now modify it. You can also stack multiple rides which you can not do with DAS. DAS varies based on the ride wait time and you can not stack nor can it be modified to an earlier time. If the person wants to ride 7 dwarfs you will be in the Que for 120 minutes but if it is Ariel it may be only 15 minutes. Your party can then take care of certain other things while waiting for your spot. There have been many occasions when we have a DAS but we abandon it as DS can’t handle anymore and wants to leave.

Another thing is we can not make a DAS without all people scanning in to the park where Genie+ you can make a selection before it opens. Yes I know you can make an advance reservation for two rides but because those are tied to specific times like genie+ I do not count them. We very rarely make them as it all depends on how DS is feeling. At the end of the day it is all about making DS feel comfortable within the environment of Disney and DAS allows him to enjoy it even if just getting a cat tail, getting on Astro Orbiter getting his DVC stickers and leaving.

$200 is the standard fee from our psychiatrist for anything they need to fill out. Online, physical, it does not matter.

They don't take insurance, it's all OOP, and they charge whatever.

The primary care physician does nothing for this. Literally zilch. And last I checked they still charge a paperwork fee at the regular doctor too.

 

[ttintagel]

Hopefully Disney cracks down on disability passes as well. There are some many fakers and people who don't really need it taking advantage of the system, especially since they started charging for fastpass.

Where did you get the data to support this claim?

 

[ttintagel]

They are giving you something for free that everyone else has to pay for.

By "everyone else," do you mean the able-bodied people who don't need it?

If a person 6 feet tall and a person 5 feet tall are both trying to look over a five-foot fence, a twelve-inch box to stand on doesn't give the shorter person an advantage over the taller one. And the taller person can see just fine without it.

 

[ttintagel]

In addition to the great points others have brought up, this is absolutely going to hurt people who don't realize they need the accommodation until they try to get through the day without it.

It won't be a problem for people who have one simple, clear-cut need and the spare time and cash to get paperwork from a doctor. And the good fortune to have a doctor who has enough experience with this sort of thing to know exactly what kind of paperwork will be accepted and what won't.

My position has always been that it's better to give accommodation to a few people who don't really need it than to deny it to even one who does.

If Disney does go the same route as Universal, they'll be forfeiting their hard-earned reputation as a top destination for people with disabilities, and they will absolutely be losing repeat customers who currently spend a lot of money on the kind of vacation they can't get elsewhere.