U.S. diverts plane because Cat Stevens on board

[Doug123]

I wish they would detain Jennifer Lopez or the creators of any and all of tv's reality shows.

Seriously though, how come all these so-called intelligence agencies know about individuals contributing to "terrorist" organizations, but do nothing about stopping the transfer of the money? Is it illegal to donate to Muslim charities? If so, then stop the money flow and prosecute the people. If not, then leave them alone.

 

[kingbilly]

Heres the best bit ( now if he was a terrorist ) One administration official said the singer had been in the United States as recently as May and was a recent addition to the list. According to a TSA spokesman, Islam made it through pre-screening by United and was given a boarding pass.

But after the flight took off, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency discovered his name was on a watch list.


So why not let the plane land as normal ?

 

[caitycaity]

So why not let the plane land as normal ?

because someone made a mistake and was trying to CTA.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by jmmom80
he's a british citizen.



how so?

He is British, I had to go look it up. He was born in England. I still don't think that makes him a terrorist. What do the Brits think?

 

[Cindy B]

Ok, then what is the British law on that. I read on his bio that one parent was Greek. Is he a dual status citizen with Greece?

Ok, bottom line, is there any proof that he did give money to supposed terrosits?

Personally if there is no proof , why let that happen?

As for the paranoia, I have seen it. I've seen American people step aside or run when they see people in burqa's. I saw it happen in Orlando this summer. People were scared of a Muslim family on vacation, they would walk away, run away, and shoo thier kids away from them in an attraction line.

I've seen some Indian and Pakistani students get called terrorists. Mind you Indian and Pakistani kids have nothing to do with this.

My daughter has a Muslim girl in her class. SHe adores this girl, and they are friends in school. She dresses traditionally with the head scarf, and the kids don't care. But some adults do.

This little girl and her family is not terrorists. They are from Albania (yes a coutry with challneging issues), but the kids are American. Ihave to remind the paranoid parents that these kids are Americans just like us!

 

[Galahad]

Just curious. Do those of you that are appalled at this think there should be no watch list? If he didn't belong on the list, is this a case, to you, of a bad process or a bad policy? They are different. Just because he sang wonderful songs 30 years ago doesn't mean he couldn't legitimately be on a watch list.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by Galahad
Just curious. Do those of you that are appalled at this think there should be no watch list? If he didn't belong on the list, is this a case, to you, of a bad process or a bad policy? They are different. Just because he sang wonderful songs 30 years ago doesn't mean he couldn't legitimately be on a watch list.

Galahad, I really don't know. I just keep wondering what if someday people who read Buddhist and Taoist literature will end up being on that list. (That would be me) I just hate the idea of condemning, or being extra suspicious, of anyone just for their philosophical or religious beliefs. it really is a catch 22 type situation, though.

 

[caitycaity]

Do those of you that are appalled at this think there should be no watch list? If he didn't belong on the list, is this a case, to you, of a bad process or a bad policy? They are different. Just because he sang wonderful songs 30 years ago doesn't mean he couldn't legitimately be on a watch list.

no, i am not opposed to the general concept of having a watch list. (therefore, i do not think watch lists are bad policy, but this particular watchlist uses a bad process). i am opposed to the way the watch list the us uses now is operated. do you know, no one even knows how many people are on it or why exactly people are on it? i'm not talking about the general public here, i'm talking about congress; people in the government with security clearances... i'm sure someone somewhere knows who and why, but don't you think knowing at least why someone is on such a watch list and how they can get off would be important for policymakers (like congress) to know???

i watched a news show about this watchlist several months ago and people (regular US citizens) who have no terrorist or criminal background get stopped from boarding planes and/or hassled because they happen to have the same name as someone on the list. once that matter is cleared up, they try to find out how to prevent it from happening the next time they fly and they find out that there is no way to prevent it from happening again. they contact their congressional representatives and are told they don't know what to do. from everything i have heard about this watch list - it is a mess.

i understand that it is a fine line between paranoia and protecting our national security. but honestly, don't you think congress (or someone accountable to the people) should have a little bit more oversight? that is the part that scares me. it seems like when you start to keep things secret from congress you have a pretty big problem.

i agree with mp and cindyb - where is this kind of thing going to take us? it reminds me of blackballing people in hollywood just because they went with a friend to a communist party meting in the 20's when it was cool.

 

[jfulcer]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Galahad, I really don't know. I just keep wondering what if someday people who read Buddhist and Taoist literature will end up being on that list. (That would be me) I just hate the idea of condemning, or being extra suspicious, of anyone just for their philosophical or religious beliefs. it really is a catch 22 type situation, though.

But he is not on the list because he is Islam, or because some people thought his songs were bad. He is on the list because there is some question about his dealing with charities that may support terrorism.

So we tell him sorry - you can't come in - but you're welcome to go back to Brittain and clear your name if it should be. And then if your name is removed from the list we'll welcome you back with open arms - come start a muslim school here too!

 

[jrydberg]

minniepumpernickel, I'd agree that I wouldn't want to be extra suspicious of someone because of widely held religious beliefs. Honestly, I don't know if that was the case here or not. Sounds like the authorities believe there is more to it than that, but I don't know.

If he's on the list for a legitimate reason, well then good.

If it's just because he converted to Islam and has voiced anti-war sentiments, then that's a serious problem

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Galahad, I really don't know. I just keep wondering what if someday people who read Buddhist and Taoist literature will end up being on that list. (That would be me) I just hate the idea of condemning, or being extra suspicious, of anyone just for their philosophical or religious beliefs. it really is a catch 22 type situation, though.

I agree. I read the Koran, does that make me on the watch list?

BTW, I told someone at work the other day I read the Koran (in a world literature context), and they were suprised. Will they turn me as a terrorist now? Not likely, but you never know!

Will the watch list turn into a McCarthey style witchhunt?

Is the watch list important? Possibly. Is it overused and not effective? Possibly Is there people that should not be on there? Definetely (case in point Sen. Kennedy).

Back to the original debate, is there any proof that Mr. Stevens or Islam actually gave money? If there isn't let him go wherever he wants.

 

[kingbilly]

Do those of you that are appalled at this think there should be no watch list

Whats the point in having one if your not watching

 

[caitycaity]

But he is not on the list because he is Islam, or because some people thought his songs were bad. He is on the list because there is some question about his dealing with charities that may support terrorism.

but how do you know that? how do you know that it is really him that is the yusuf islam on the list? how do you know that there is any reason for him being on the list at all?

i'm not saying he isn't, i'm just saying that noone really knows.

 

[WDWfan uk]

He is on the watch list as, some years back, he was refused entry into Israel because he gave money to a charity which was thought to support Hamas.

He made a statement in which he said that he would never knowingly give money to a charity or movement that supported terrorism.

Only the authorities would know how much of a threat he actually is, but I gather his daughter was allowed to proceed to Washington.

Once on that list, apparently you remain there according to the news reports I have heard.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by caitycaity
this was on our local news last night. they had a statement from ted kennedy saying that he has been stopped 5 times when trying to fly because that name appears on the watch list. he has to prove each time that he is a senator.

from what i know about the watchlist, innocent citizens of the US have problems with it all the time.

Well, being that it's Ted Kennedy, that's actually a good thing.

 

[dmadman43]

the title of your post is misleading. It was diverted because someone on board showed up on a watch list. The govt couldn't care less if it was Cat Stevens or not. Talk about hyperbole

 

[Galahad]

therefore, i do not think watch lists are bad policy, but this particular watchlist uses a bad process

That's kind of what I was getting at. I think I agree with you on that point. A process that keeps a sitting U.S. Senator on the list has got some flaws in it somewhere along the line.

I don't fear that this will lead to thought profiling/religious profiling because I don't think, as others have also stated, that his religion lead to being put on the list.

The support of "charities" that are merely fronts for terrorism in, IMO, an act of terrorism. It may be that he has never done this and shouldn't have been on the list. But just because he is "Cat Stevens" doesn't mean we should assume that he can't possible really do something that could legitimately cause him to raise flags.

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by WDWfan,uk
He is on the watch list as, some years back, he was refused entry into Israel because he gave money to a charity which was thought to support Hamas.

He made a statement in which he said that he would never knowingly give money to a charity or movement that supported terrorism.

Only the authorities would know how much of a threat he actually is, but I gather his daughter was allowed to proceed to Washington.


Once on that list, apparently you remain there according to the news reports I have heard.

Ithought I remembered his statement regarding that. That is why I was confused as to why this situation happened?

True, the authorities do know the true nature of the "threat". Was the plane action a knee-jerk reaction? Did that really need to occur?

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by Cindy B
I agree. I read the Koran, does that make me on the watch list?

BTW, I told someone at work the other day I read the Koran (in a world literature context), and they were suprised. Will they turn me as a terrorist now? Not likely, but you never know!

Will the watch list turn into a McCarthey style witchhunt?

Is the watch list important? Possibly. Is it overused and not effective? Possibly Is there people that should not be on there? Definetely (case in point Sen. Kennedy).

Back to the original debate, is there any proof that Mr. Stevens or Islam actually gave money? If there isn't let him go wherever he wants.

Sure! Let's go back to Sept 10th, 2001. Everything is okay now. Nothing to worry about.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

With regard to Sen. Kennedy, I believe I heard that it is not Sen. Kennedy on the watch list but someone with the same name. That is why he keeps getting stopped. I mean some people do have the same name.