Triple-Dipping (and much, much worse)!

[matthewhavens]

That would be the problem. You might be able to ride 2 times within the hour window depending on the ride and the FP line.

But you could have a paid guide one ride ahead of you waiting with a fresh stack of FP- every where you went.

Every ride would be a walk on all day long. You could ride multiple times in a row and pick your rides.

Even in the highest seasons you would never wait in a standby line again.

 

[matthewhavens]

We were also there last week, and although it's not the exact same situation, did NOT work for us. My father had stayed behind in the room, so I attempted to pull 4 fastpasses for Jungle Cruise (using the room keys we'd been given as "backup") and his spit out a "not a valid fastpass" because it hadn't been used to enter a park that day.

I work in IT, and have never seen so much on-and-off, back-and-forth testing in...production! Makes me shiver thinking about it

Not the same situation. You didn't have room only KTTW cards or yours wouldn't have worked either.

 

[HookdonWDW]

And the more that people post and debate about this here on the boards, the more other people will hear about it, dig up their old passes and add to the issue. If people worried less about what "everyone else" is doing, and feeding the problem, there would be a lot fewer problems.

 

[Minniesgal]

So the reports are in and the 10/27 end of double-dipping was a date for CM's to try using FP+ only. Multiple sources onsite and returning from trips have confirmed using FP+ and FP- together with no issues. The real issue now is that some of those sources have also confirmed using old KTTW cards from past trips and also being able to draw FP- from kiosks. In the old days, in order to draw a FP- from a kiosk your KTTW card had to have an active ticket linked to that card and that ticket had to have been scanned at the park entrance that day. I know this because two years ago I traveled with my DD3 and one time entering the park she was in a stroller and we forgot to scan her ticket and the CM didn't ask for it. When I tried to get her a FP- the machine gave me some kind of denial (can't remember the message anymore but I know I didn't get one). Because most guests staying onsite now have their tickets linked to their Magic Bands and no ticket linked to the KTTW card, Disney changed the system so all KTTW cards can draw FP- regardless of status. This means that some well intentioned scrapbooker, who has saved every KTTW, for the past 10 family trips to Disney World can show up at Christmas this year and draw handfuls upon handfuls of FP-. Does anyone else see the chaos that may ensue?

Yes and it has been happening because I saw it with my own eyes this has been going on for months. However, Disney has stated they have more CMs at the fast pass machines checking for active KTTW and turning away people with magic bands.

 

[RedHeadedFairy]

The thought of anybody intentionally using old KTTW cards to get FPs is deplorable.

But MB users having the ability to hold FP+ and FP- for the same ride or for 2 rides with overlapping return times is perfectly OK because Disney "says" it's ok?

Hold your judgement for something more worthy - we personally pulled FP for nostalgia purposes & rode every single ride standby. Crowd levels were somewhere around 2's and 3's so our actions had zero impact on other vacationers.

 

[NHDisneyKid]

Not the same situation. You didn't have room only KTTW cards or yours wouldn't have worked either.

Agreed, which is why I said it wasn't the exact same situation.
My post was more in reference to the multiple forms of media people have been having success with (I think someone mentioned at one point any card with a magnetic strip worked). I just happened to quote someone who was there at the same time as us

Editing to add: Evidently it took me two separate posts to realize KTTW cards with tix associated would never work - now I get it. Thanks for explaining!

 

[diskev]

I work in IT, and have never seen so much on-and-off, back-and-forth testing in...production! Makes me shiver thinking about it

Disney doesn't have a "test" environment to test in. Testing in "production" is quite common in this scenario as there's no possible way to create a "test" environment that adequately mirrors "production". Without a "test" environment, you create limited tests with various scenarios to play out potential real world scenarios based on your anticipated design for final release.

Or, you can look at it the Google way. Google introduces new products as "BETA". Doing so allows them to test while ramping up production without setting "production" level expectations. The FP+ project is probably more like this. Limited introduction which allows for testing and adjustment, with increasing participation and continued adjustment until you reach the final phase and are ready to remove the "BETA" label.

 

[AuroraRora]

Yes and it has been happening because I saw it with my own eyes this has been going on for months. However, Disney has stated they have more CMs at the fast pass machines checking for active KTTW and turning away people with magic bands.

I've never had anyone verify what I was putting into the FP machines on our current trip, and most kiosk CM's have seemed encouraging of MB users pulling FPs. Apart from at Kili Safari, where several times I saw the CM's actively block MB holders from getting paper FPs.

 

[stickeymouse]

But MB users having the ability to hold FP+ and FP- for the same ride or for 2 rides with overlapping return times is perfectly OK because Disney "says" it's ok?

Hold your judgement for something more worthy - we personally pulled FP for nostalgia purposes & rode every single ride standby. Crowd levels were somewhere around 2's and 3's so our actions had zero impact on other vacationers.

Not at all. Pulling FP+ and FP- is not OK, especially if not all those at the park have the ability to do FP+. It's my understanding that there are a limited number of FP- per ride, and I think everyone deserves a chance to get FP. If you are fortunate enough to have FP+, you should not be taking FP- away from those who do not. I assume eventually everyone will have the ability to do FP+, eventually.

And I'm not judging you personally. I don't argue that your doing it had very little impact on the days you went. We are speaking in a theoretical sense. On busy days, this would be unfair.

 

[NHDisneyKid]

Disney doesn't have a "test" environment to test in. Testing in "production" is quite common in this scenario as there's no possible way to create a "test" environment that adequately mirrors "production". Without a "test" environment, you create limited tests with various scenarios to play out potential real world scenarios based on your anticipated design for final release.

Or, you can look at it the Google way. Google introduces new products as "BETA". Doing so allows them to test while ramping up production without setting "production" level expectations. The FP+ project is probably more like this. Limited introduction which allows for testing and adjustment, with increasing participation and continued adjustment until you reach the final phase and are ready to remove the "BETA" label.

Definitely - the Google example is a good one. In my little (or not-so-little as it actually is) world of insurance IT, it's a scary thought. And even for companies that have production mirrors, we all know it's never actually a mirror

 

[Music City Mama]

Yes and it has been happening because I saw it with my own eyes this has been going on for months. However, Disney has stated they have more CMs at the fast pass machines checking for active KTTW and turning away people with magic bands.

I've never had anyone verify what I was putting into the FP machines on our current trip, and most kiosk CM's have seemed encouraging of MB users pulling FPs. Apart from at Kili Safari, where several times I saw the CM's actively block MB holders from getting paper FPs.

I'm not sure how they could do this. Just because you have a MB doesn't mean that you have tickets attached and are utilizing FP+. On our first day there in a few weeks, that will actually be the case -- we won't have tickets linked until I activate our APs and I may not get around to linking them until later that day. What if someone had a previous stay and got the band, but their next stay was off-site, but they liked the band (like a kid who bought those accessories for it) and wanted to wear it just to wear it?

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Not at all. Pulling FP+ and FP- is not OK, especially if not all those at the park have the ability to do FP+. It's my understanding that there are a limited number of FP- per ride, and I think everyone deserves a chance to get FP. If you are fortunate enough to have FP+, you should not be taking FP- away from those who do not. I assume eventually everyone will have the ability to do FP+, eventually.

Maybe it's not OK to you, but it's OK by Disney's standard, or at least it was while we were there. I got my MyMagic+ tester survey yesterday, and a bunch of questions were on there about how I used FP+ vs how I used "traditional FP" while I was there. One of the questions was whether I used more FP+ or more "traditional FPs" on my trip. They wouldn't be asking those questions if I wasn't supposed to be doing it.

 

[matthewhavens]

I'm not sure how they could do this. Just because you have a MB doesn't mean that you have tickets attached and are utilizing FP+. On our first day there in a few weeks, that will actually be the case -- we won't have tickets linked until I activate our APs and I may not get around to linking them until later that day. What if someone had a previous stay and got the band, but their next stay was off-site, but they liked the band (like a kid who bought those accessories for it) and wanted to wear it just to wear it?

You could also have the band as your room key, park ticket, meal plan and for charging priviledges but never have gotten around to setting up the FP+ before arrival and not want to bother doing so during your trip.

Why would a CM block you from FP-? They have no way to know you set up your band for your FP+?

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Yes and it has been happening because I saw it with my own eyes this has been going on for months. However, Disney has stated they have more CMs at the fast pass machines checking for active KTTW and turning away people with magic bands.

When did Disney state this? I never saw anyone turned away, and even though I handed my 2011 KTTW cards to a CM to put into the FP machine, he never even glanced at them. This was just last week, too...

 

[AuroraRora]

I'm not sure how they could do this. Just because you have a MB doesn't mean that you have tickets attached and are utilizing FP+. On our first day there in a few weeks, that will actually be the case -- we won't have tickets linked until I activate our APs and I may not get around to linking them until later that day. What if someone had a previous stay and got the band, but their next stay was off-site, but they liked the band (like a kid who bought those accessories for it) and wanted to wear it just to wear it?

Very true, I agree. They say you can opt out of FP+, but then at least at the Safari, if you wear the MB but opt out of the FP+ part of it, you're screwed?

It was so weird for me to see because all the other kiosk CM's just smiled and moved on when they saw us wearing bands but pulling FP's. Yet at the Safari at least three different times, I heard CM's telling people they were not allowed - not just that it was discouraged, but refusing to allow it. One actually put his hand over the card slot to stop a guest and when she argued, he politely told her she could go to Guest Relations if she had questions. I hung my hoodie over my MB arm as I got our FPs!

 

[surferdave]

If the loophole isn't closed there will be an aftermarket for these cards and a service to collect and distribute FP- at a rate that Disney is not prepared for.

It might concern me more if I weren't convinced that WDW will be yanking the old FP- machines out in the foreseeable future. Maybe among their reasons for replacing the old system is that it's easily compromised. This sort of thing may have been going on for a long time now, but nobody noticed until all this righteous indignation over FP+ came along.

 

[stickeymouse]

Maybe it's not OK to you, but it's OK by Disney's standard, or at least it was while we were there. I got my MyMagic+ tester survey yesterday, and a bunch of questions were on there about how I used FP+ vs how I used "traditional FP" while I was there. One of the questions was whether I used more FP+ or more "traditional FPs" on my trip. They wouldn't be asking those questions if I wasn't supposed to be doing it.

Well if Disney is allowing it, it must be ethical. My point is that until everyone has the same ability to get FP+, and therefore on equal footing, it's not right to hog all the FP- too. I'm thinking of all those who come in with no FP+ and must rely on FP- for the headliners when taking my stance on this issue.

 

[BayouMickey]

Hey now.. I don't hear any argument about multiple dipping involved when it comes to mickey rice krispie treats!!

 

[matthewhavens]

It might concern me more if I weren't convinced that WDW will be yanking the old FP- machines out in the foreseeable future. Maybe among their reasons for replacing the old system is that it's easily compromised. This sort of thing may have been going on for a long time now, but nobody noticed until all this righteous indignation over FP+ came along.

Good point. These silly FP- machines will be long gone before we know it.

The next uproar will be that they are gone and that you need an iPhone to visit Disney because after your first 3 FP+ are done you either have to wait in line at a kiosk or get your additional FP+ via a mobile device.

 

[surferdave]

......aaaaaand this just turned into another "I don't think you should be allowed to FP- if you FP+ thread".