TouringPlans Tips?

[GervaisCouple]

I just subscribed to TouringPlans...any one have tips on how to use it to plan our WDW trip?

 

[Mikie]

Im a subscriber and a "light" user of touring plans. I Use their crowd predictor to help me decide which park to go to on which day. I use their Lines app on my android to see posted and actual reported wait times when I'm in the parks. I read through their step by step touring plans to get an idea how to tour the parks (best order to tackle things) but I've never optimized a specific step by step plan for my family because I don't think they'd go along with it! They like to think we're just taking the day as it comes, when really I have it mostly mapped out

 

[SeanTomorrow]

Sure! From recent experience:

1. Use the crowd tracker to pick your which parks to visit which days. This is choices are really wide open, depending on what you want to get done. But don't be too worried if circumstance compels you to visit on a busy day.

2. Start with the pre-made touring plans. They're a great place to start and have suggested FP+ reservation times that work well with the plan.

3. Only if you're feeling adventurous, start customizing touring plans by adding/removing attractions, adding different FP reservations, and hitting optimize. It took me a while to get comfortable (and I'm a pretty technical person), but you'll have a lot of power at your fingertips.

4. Come back and post your opinion on FP+. Oh wait, no you don't have to do that unless you're really brave!

Good luck!

 

[SeanTomorrow]

They like to think we're just taking the day as it comes, when really I have it mostly mapped out

This is my experience too! I feel a bit like a puppet master sometimes, but hopefully it's for the best.

 

[GervaisCouple]

I'm wondering how flexible it can be...if we lay out this grand plan but then end up inserting a ride it didn't say, then what? or if we stop to get ice cream...holy smokes does that ruin the whole thing?

 

[SeanTomorrow]

Don't worry you've got options:
1) Before your trip, you can move the slider in the touring plan to "relaxed" or slower. That'll build in more time for diversions
2) Distractions during the trip are all part of the fun! In the park you can just skip a few steps if you fall behind, or the app can re-optimize what's left if you want

[update]
OR you can be like me and have a backup plan in case the family decides to sleep in, etc. Someone stop me I think I have a problem...

 

[DLBDS]

Gonna hijack here.... I just heard about the optimize feature this week. Is TP worth it just for this? (I have an offer to get 30% off the regular price.) This feature sounds pretty cool. I'm going in July sad2 and I'm gonna need all the help I can get with those kinds of crowds. I've depended on TGM over the years but he's gone now and with the introduction of FP+ that touring advice is obsolete at this point.

 

[Richard M Nixon]

I've been using TP to plan our first trip to the World and I certainly qualify as a hardcore user of the site. I'm planning out to-the-minute schedules for seven park days. Optimizing the plans is awesome! I've researched the computations they do and the mathematician in me puts my full trust in their soundness.

Here's what I do. First, I plan out what rides I want in a day, adding in breaks/food/whatever. Then, I optimize. My overall plan is to have a more or less straight path through the mark with minimal backtracking so that when I see a ride, I know I'm heading right to it and I'll ride, not crossing halfway across the park and back again (like TP will make you do if you use its algorithm straight up). I set the preferences to use the slowest pace and to optimize for minimal walking. Remember to tell it you have 3 FP+ to use. After optimizing, I look at the order of attractions it has me doing and the first FP+ suggestion it has. I will then re-order the rides up to that first FP+ suggestion so that I have a straight path to FP+ #1. Then, I evaluate (not optimize!) Repeat for FP+ 2 and 3. After doing all that, I have a path that is probably 10-15% less efficient than the pure optimized plan, but I make a nice circle around the park so when my partner and I are actually touring, she doesn't feel like we're on a robotic plan - to her, it'll just be walking through the park and hitting every attraction on the way as we see them, but secretly I've made sure they are plotted very efficiently!

 

[SeanTomorrow]

@DLBDS, I think $8 is definitely worth it.

Let me geek out a bit about the optimizer. It's solving a variant of the "Traveling salesman problem". The problem is deceptively simple, but it'd take your computer years (like, decades) to calculate a solution.

So one of the things the TP optimizer does is takes your touring plan, marries it to another touring plan, they have a touring plan baby, and then it compares the baby to the parent to see which is more efficient. Then it repeats millions of times. Yes really.

So when you hit "optimize", just think of all the baby touring plans you've brought into the world.

 

[GervaisCouple]

LOVE IT! THANKS ALL!

So, the app will allow me to update my plan in the park and recalculate?
I need to test out this at home...

 

[Richard M Nixon]

The touringplans algorithm is similar to TSP in that it calculates a route to a list of points, but it is far more complex in every way than TSP. Whereas TSP only requires a list of vertices to visit and a single edge value for each connection, touringplans is evaluating each point of interest's location, wait time as a function of day/time/crowds, FP+ availability, distance to other POIs, and more. It's a combinatorial model that employs the assignment problem and queueing theory. To use a taxonomical comparison, I'd argue that the TP algorithm is more in the same family as TSP than the same species.

Then again, nerds being nerds...

 

[Richard M Nixon]

LOVE IT! THANKS ALL!

So, the app will allow me to update my plan in the park and recalculate?
I need to test out this at home...

You can always update plans while in the park. You can either re-evaluate the plan (keeping all attractions in order and just update wait times) or totally re-optimize to find the shortest or fastest route. This what the app looks like with a plan. You'd just click the Done! button after doing an attraction then update the plan as you wish. You can click the 'are you somewhere else' to get it to use GPS and fix on your location in the park!

 

[lentesta]

The touringplans algorithm is similar to TSP in that it calculates a route to a list of points, but it is far more complex in every way than TSP. Whereas TSP only requires a list of vertices to visit and a single edge value for each connection, touringplans is evaluating each point of interest's location, wait time as a function of day/time/crowds, FP+ availability, distance to other POIs, and more. It's a combinatorial model that employs the assignment problem and queueing theory. To use a taxonomical comparison, I'd argue that the TP algorithm is more in the same family as TSP than the same species.

Then again, nerds being nerds...

Nice analysis. The first approach used queuing theory and combinatorial optimization. The current version thinks of it as a Time-Dependent Traveling Salesman Problem.

Lots of regular TSP heuristics don't work on the time-dependent version. Things like the triangle inequality and convex hull property apply to the TSP but not the TDTSP. So yeah, same family, not same species.

So one of the things the TP optimizer does is takes your touring plan, marries it to another touring plan, they have a touring plan baby, and then it compares the baby to the parent to see which is more efficient. Then it repeats millions of times. Yes really.

This is true. Even in the code we refer to "parent" and "child" touring plans. There may even be a comment that starts "When a mommy touring plan and daddy touring plan love each other very much..."

 

[Richard M Nixon]

Nice analysis. The first approach used queuing theory and combinatorial optimization. The current version thinks of it as a Time-Dependent Traveling Salesman Problem.

Lots of regular TSP heuristics don't work on the time-dependent version. Things like the triangle inequality and convex hull property apply to the TSP but not the TDTSP. So yeah, same family, not same species.



This is true. Even in the code we refer to "parent" and "child" touring plans. There may even be a comment that starts "When a mommy touring plan and daddy touring plan love each other very much..."

I didn't know that you posted here, Len! I was hoping I'd find an academic publication from you that went into detail of the data-rich real world case study you've conducted with touringplans, but alas Scholar and JSTOR came up empty. I know a lot of us in the CS / Stats community would love to hear as much about the inner workings of your planning tools as possible.

 

[lentesta]

...t alas Scholar and JSTOR came up empty.

Thanks!

For some reason "LJ Testa" works better on Scholar. I think the first resort is the patent I got in grad school for the algorithm.

Drop me a line if you'd like publication copies: len at touringplans.

 

[SeanTomorrow]

Len, I remember listening to podcast you were on years ago (2010? 2011?) When you went into a lot of detail on the TSP, the TP algorithm, application at places like UPS, etc. It was fascinating!

 

[Richard M Nixon]

Len, I read your paper on TDTSP over lunch and it was fascinating, thank you for the details needed to find it! In grad school I took a course covering integrating graph theory to solve complex spatial and decision-based problems. Several TSP variants were discussed but they did not receive much attention beyond a few selected publications to read. You presented a fascinating depth of detail on a problem set that now (thanks to Disney planning) has been holding a place of interest in my mind!

 

[abouley]

I think touringplans is worth the money and I've been working with the customized touring plans. I just want to add that what I have found really works the best for my family is using a touringplan in the morning to try to optimize the least crowded time in the park and then after lunch we wing it more depending on crowds, heat, whether we want to break, etc depending on our moods. We have an idea of what attractions are good for the afternoon, but we don't have it planned out exactly. We usually have 8-10 days in the parks so plenty of time to be a little less efficient part of the day. For us this helps us get through all the key attractions but also time to relax and feel like we're on vacation!

 

[DLBDS]

You guys convinced me. From what I've seen of the website/app so far, I think I've definitely made a good decision. One thing I was worried about... I've already planned my July visit based on EasyWDW's advice and was concerned TP would recommend different parks each day. I'm relieved they seem to be pretty much aligned with each other. So glad I have help with a touring plan for each park. Feeling a lot better about this trip! Thanks!

 

[soniam]

It's worth the money. I have used it twice at WDW and once at DLR. I will be using it for our upcoming WDW and Universal trip. I love the personalized plans. Be sure to optimize again closer to your visit. TP sometimes gets new info about show/park times and ride data. If you re-optimize right before going, then you will have all of the latest info that TP does. I also like to have a print out of the plans, just in case wifi or data is slow in the park.

We don't stress if we are not following it to the minute. If TP says to ride something before doing our FP+, but we feel like we should do the FP+ first, then we do the FP+ first. Usually, with the optimized plans, we finish ahead of the plan and have plenty of time to just do what we want later, like re-ride things. I don't put every little break into the the plan, just meals. We still stop for snacks, shopping, and to look around, and don't have any issues. I think of the times as a guideline to see if we will get everything done, not an absolute schedule. It helps when you have not been before and you are trying to determine if you can really do everything that you want to do. We always go during busy times too. We get a lot done and rarely wait more than 20 minutes.

As an example, my mid-March MK day has 20 attractions and 2 meals scheduled (1 QS, 1 TS). It's an AM EMH day, and we plan to get there at RD, 8am. TP says that we will finish by about 5pm with the longest wait at 18 minutes for Jungle Cruise (no FP+ for JC in the plan). March is a busy time of year, but it's nice to know that we will be able to accomplish what we want based upon scientific algorithms as opposed to gut feeling. It really takes the guess work out of the day, and there's no more standing around going "What should we do next?".

I think because I use TP, I have not stressed over FP+ scheduling so much. I just optimize the plan without FP+, get my FP+ either for the TP suggested time or mid-day, and enter the FP+ times in the plan and re-optimize.

The app is really nice too. It has 3 wait times: posted, expected, and reported. It also has estimates for the next available FP+. The dining info in the plan is really helpful too, because it has menus for even the QS and snack places.