Too many rooms -too few attractions???

[massmickeypal]

During our last trip I longed for the days when you went to the Magic Kingdom and saw only two hotels. Now with DVC at the Grand Floridian, the Contemporary and soon at the poly it felt like a mini city and not a vacation oasis.
Also with downtown under construction, several areas of EPCOT closed, a need for some new life at Disney Studios and yet to be completed work at the Magic Kingdom it felt like more people, more shopping and less attractions. Don't get me wrong, still love Disney World and will return soon, but is there a danger of losing balance between attractions and accommodations?
What do you think?

 

[DetroitDisney]

No. Adding more places to sleep outside the parks does not make the parks have less rides.

Furthermore, the more the parks have attendance, the more money Disney has, which means more expansions and more rides.

Again, no.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

No. Adding more places to sleep outside the parks does not make the parks have less rides.

Furthermore, the more the parks have attendance, the more money Disney has, which means more expansions and more rides.

Again, no.

 

[LaidBackDad]

No. Adding more places to sleep outside the parks does not make the parks have less rides.

Furthermore, the more the parks have attendance, the more money Disney has, which means more expansions and more rides.

Again, no.

It does most often equate to more people in the parks which equals longer lines which means less rides (or ride time).

Disney making more money does equate to more expansions or more rides or even investment into the infrastructure of the parks. More money for Disney may just equate to higher salaries and bonuses for executives and higher stock prices.

 

[yanks1417]

It does most often equate to more people in the parks which equals longer lines which means less rides (or ride time). Disney making more money does equate to more expansions or more rides or even investment into the infrastructure of the parks. More money for Disney may just equate to higher salaries and bonuses for executives and higher stock prices.

As a stockholder, I don't mind higher stock prices or increased dividends

 

[MiramarQE]

All right - I buck the trend - I agree with the OP.

My first visit was in Dec '71, just after the MK opened. Freq visitor since then, have lived in Florida several times over that period - we're Fl residents now.

I do NOT see that Disney is going to invest in significantly more hardware infrastructure (more parks or attractions) - they're putting their efforts into maximizing the return and throughput of what they have - that's the reason for MDE and MBs and Dining Plans - they're forcing the guests to plan their experience - therefore allowing WDW to plan their logistics to be more efficient - the right number of cast members, etc. to meet the projected demand.

It's a adaptation of "just in time" manufacturing for an entertainment service company - their tweaking the use of their existing infrastructure (parks) to serve as many paying customers (maximize throughput) as possible - thereby maximizing revenue.

More rooms just means more customers they can (by better planning on the customers part) squeeze into the same park infrastructure. It's good business - but it has changed the experience of the guest - used to be you could get into a decent table service restaurant without a reservation or a 90 minute wait - not anymore - and in what slow demand period that remain (mid-Sept) you still have to wait - they have cut back on the number of CMs and the restaurants are half-empty.

 

[ToyStoryMania1]

My hope is that after Seven Dwarfs Coaster is completed, they will think of another attraction for EPCOT or Hollywood Studios. I know they are focusing on Avatar but still.

I understand where many of you are coming from. There has been a lot of DVC construction lately and not as much on actual park attractions.

 

[Mad-Jasper]

During our last trip I longed for the days when you went to the Magic Kingdom and saw only two hotels. Now with DVC at the Grand Floridian, the Contemporary and soon at the poly it felt like a mini city and not a vacation oasis. Also with downtown under construction, several areas of EPCOT closed, a need for some new life at Disney Studios and yet to be completed work at the Magic Kingdom it felt like more people, more shopping and less attractions. Don't get me wrong, still love Disney World and will return soon, but is there a danger of losing balance between attractions and accommodations? What do you think?

I tend to agree with you to a degree. Disney has added much in the way of room capacity but nothing in the way of park/ride capacity. The new Fantasyland is the much of the same, IMO.

We decided to split up out planned 10 day May Disney vacation between a few days at the beach, a few days at Disney and a few at Universal (they seem to be investing in both room and ride/park capacity). DD13 is just bored with Disney although it will always be a special place to her.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

The fact that they are running almost year-round discounts shows that they have more than enough rooms on property. They need to create more demand by really building/creating more attractions at the 3-non MK parks. Yes Avatarland is a huge step in accomplishing this, but like so many others have noted...DHS is in DESPERATE need of something BIG and NEW. Then EPCOT needs serious attention.

If they take care of the 3 non-MK parks then maybe in 10 years there will be a need for new resorts.

 

[Son of Gadsden]

Wait a minute...forgive me if I'm being rude,

But are you complaining about the construction of new attractions going on instead of new attractions?

Disney isn't exactly focusing on resorts. Let's remember that AoA sat abandoned for a decade before Disney felt the need to finish it, and other than DVC, I don't see any other resorts slotted to be constructed. I would think they are building more DVC because that's what the people want.

With New Fantasyland being added and still under construction, construction on Avatarland beginning a few days ago, Festival of the Lion King being upgraded to a better structure, and talk of Star Wars Land being built at DHS, and the revamp of Downtown Disney taking place...I just can't level with the "Disney needs to build more attractions" crowd.

 

[middlechild]

Walt made sure to include places to "people watch" and not just run from ride to ride. It is not about the rides, for me. But about enjoying the family life and care free afternoons. This is long gone.
There was a time when you could go out from a hotel like Fort Wilderness and not see any other lodging. With the expansion of Bay Lake Tower that is gone, and disappearing again on Poly, etc.
Spent yesterday afternoon watching "Apple Dumpling Gang" and laughed. Disney for me is not about adrenaline, Universal can have that, but about enjoying life. It seems all these hotel rooms are crowding the park to pursue dollars. I am not as excited to go back.

- Middle

 

[gdrj]

During our last trip I longed for the days when you went to the Magic Kingdom and saw only two hotels. Now with DVC at the Grand Floridian, the Contemporary and soon at the poly it felt like a mini city and not a vacation oasis. Also with downtown under construction, several areas of EPCOT closed, a need for some new life at Disney Studios and yet to be completed work at the Magic Kingdom it felt like more people, more shopping and less attractions. Don't get me wrong, still love Disney World and will return soon, but is there a danger of losing balance between attractions and accommodations? What do you think?

While there is a fair amount of construction I do not see it as a problem. In regards to DTD, it only makes sense to expand and add parking garages since the crowds are always big, and Pleasure Island had to be redeveloped. As far as the hotels, we actually enjoy visiting them when we want a break from the parks. A quick stop at a lounge for a snack and a drink is a nice change of pace

It does most often equate to more people in the parks which equals longer lines which means less rides (or ride time).
Disney making more money does equate to more expansions or more rides or even investment into the infrastructure of the parks. More money for Disney may just equate to higher salaries and bonuses for executives and higher stock prices.

Agreed that more rooms on site probably means more crowds at parks. Of course during peak seasons it has always been crazy, EMH's really can be helpful especially at night

All right - I buck the trend - I agree with the OP.

My first visit was in Dec '71, just after the MK opened. Freq visitor since then, have lived in Florida several times over that period - we're Fl residents now.

I do NOT see that Disney is going to invest in significantly more hardware infrastructure (more parks or attractions) - they're putting their efforts into maximizing the return and throughput of what they have - that's the reason for MDE and MBs and Dining Plans - they're forcing the guests to plan their experience - therefore allowing WDW to plan their logistics to be more efficient - the right number of cast members, etc. to meet the projected demand.

It's a adaptation of "just in time" manufacturing for an entertainment service company - their tweaking the use of their existing infrastructure (parks) to serve as many paying customers (maximize throughput) as possible - thereby maximizing revenue.

More rooms just means more customers they can (by better planning on the customers part) squeeze into the same park infrastructure. It's good business - but it has changed the experience of the guest - used to be you could get into a decent table service restaurant without a reservation or a 90 minute wait - not anymore - and in what slow demand period that remain (mid-Sept) you still have to wait - they have cut back on the number of CMs and the restaurants are half-empty.

I believe it was a couple years ago in an interview they said while there is potential for additional park(s), there focus would be on upgrading existing park experiences. I think Fantasyland is an example where they are adding attractions, expanding capacity (Dumbo ride) and investing significantly. With AK breaking ground on Avatar as well as other enhancements at that park noted by others, there appears to be investment in attractions. It is never as quick as we as guests would like, and I think the economy issues over the past decade at different times definitely slows things down. With rumored changes coming to the Studios there is definite enhancements coming. Personally I think EPCOT future world is probably in the need of the most enhancement and concept changes. There is so much underutilized space and attractions that have had either minimal or zero enhancement over the years. Obviously test Track, Mission to Mars, and Soaring, and Nemo have been enhancements. With Horizons a big empty space, as well as other areas it would be great to see a masterplan for there.

My hope is that after Seven Dwarfs Coaster is completed, they will think of another attraction for EPCOT or Hollywood Studios. I know they are focusing on Avatar but still.
I understand where many of you are coming from. There has been a lot of DVC construction lately and not as much on actual park attractions.

Rumors do have them adding an expanding "Star Wars World" or "Cars" area. I know I saw reports but can't locate them.

Wait a minute...forgive me if I'm being rude,

But are you complaining about the construction of new attractions going on instead of new attractions?

Disney isn't exactly focusing on resorts. Let's remember that AoA sat abandoned for a decade before Disney felt the need to finish it, and other than DVC, I don't see any other resorts slotted to be constructed. I would think they are building more DVC because that's what the people want.

With New Fantasyland being added and still under construction, construction on Avatarland beginning a few days ago, Festival of the Lion King being upgraded to a better structure, and talk of Star Wars Land being built at DHS, and the revamp of Downtown Disney taking place...I just can't level with the "Disney needs to build more attractions" crowd.

Agreed, with exception of updating as I mention above which I think they are updating.

 

[xie]

Right now, there is definitely, on many days, an imbalance between the number of people in the parks and the number of available attractions that those people wish to ride. This is why fast passes are being severely rationed, and why standby waits are often quite long, and why you can't look at the park around you on busy days, because you're too busy trying not to be stepped on, and moving from one place to another is navigating a sea of people who aren't looking where they're going (or don't care that they just cut across in front of you and ran over your foot with their stroller). IMHO there are a number of peak days where the parks simply sell too many tickets.

Now whether you can blame that on Disney "overbuilding rooms", I don't know. If Disney hadn't built rooms, maybe all these people would still be coming and simply staying offsite. I will tell you that there are far more people inside the parks on a daily basis than there were 5 years ago and 10 years ago. FAR more. Nowadays, there is no low season, just busy and slightly less busy.

Anecdotally, in the late 90s, all our adult professional friends thought we were weird for going to WDW often. We were going regularly long before we had kids. To them, it was someplace they had never been, or someplace their parents took them in the 80s and they thought it was a very strange place for us to want to vacation. Most of the professionals here thought an all inclusive beach resort was "the way to vacation".

Somehow, Disney tapped into these people, and MANY of them started driving down to WDW in the early/mid 2000s. Part of it was that we all hit an age where we started having kids, and part of it was Disney marketing, and part of it was that post-9/11 flying is a lot more expensive and a lot less fun, and WDW is driving distance from here. A lot of them bought into the marketing of WDW as a "luxury" vacation, if you stayed in the right place and got the right ADRs. And then, DDP happened, which nerfed the dining experience a lot. And now, all any of them can talk about is the severe overcrowding.

Right now, there is a growing conversion to Universal, a lot of them being sucked in by the much nicer hotel rooms at Universal, plus Citywalk's evening scene. The reasons they cite for abandoning WDW are usually the cost (lower at Universal), the quality of the rooms (better at Universal), the evening scene at Citywalk, the unlimited Express Passes, and that they like being able to walk everywhere as opposed to dealing with cattle barges (both land and sea) at WDW.

Anyway. WDW parks are overcrowded. I do not know if that's simply because they built "too many rooms", but they definitely have been sinking more money into the areas outside the parks than within them. I think that they will lose some guests over the next two or three years, and then perhaps win some of them back later in the decade when they get some new content open.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

All right - I buck the trend - I agree with the OP.

My first visit was in Dec '71, just after the MK opened. Freq visitor since then, have lived in Florida several times over that period - we're Fl residents now.

I do NOT see that Disney is going to invest in significantly more hardware infrastructure (more parks or attractions) - they're putting their efforts into maximizing the return and throughput of what they have - that's the reason for MDE and MBs and Dining Plans - they're forcing the guests to plan their experience - therefore allowing WDW to plan their logistics to be more efficient - the right number of cast members, etc. to meet the projected demand.

It's a adaptation of "just in time" manufacturing for an entertainment service company - their tweaking the use of their existing infrastructure (parks) to serve as many paying customers (maximize throughput) as possible - thereby maximizing revenue.

More rooms just means more customers they can (by better planning on the customers part) squeeze into the same park infrastructure. It's good business - but it has changed the experience of the guest - used to be you could get into a decent table service restaurant without a reservation or a 90 minute wait - not anymore - and in what slow demand period that remain (mid-Sept) you still have to wait - they have cut back on the number of CMs and the restaurants are half-empty.

Perfect

Two things on thing thread that are against common sense...
"The stock price is higher... That's good for me!" - great...what an insightful position...but just don't expect much from your vacation dollars.

"More people means more stuff" - again, great thought...if it didnt ignore what DVC means... Locking people into the SAME stuff and really taking away their leverage to fight back. DVC people say all the time "we won't go anymore"... But they're lying, because the contract is still far more useful at wdw than any exchange.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wait a minute...forgive me if I'm being rude,

But are you complaining about the construction of new attractions going on instead of new attractions?

Disney isn't exactly focusing on resorts. Let's remember that AoA sat abandoned for a decade before Disney felt the need to finish it, and other than DVC, I don't see any other resorts slotted to be constructed. I would think they are building more DVC because that's what the people want.

With New Fantasyland being added and still under construction, construction on Avatarland beginning a few days ago, Festival of the Lion King being upgraded to a better structure, and talk of Star Wars Land being built at DHS, and the revamp of Downtown Disney taking place...I just can't level with the "Disney needs to build more attractions" crowd.

The fantasyland refurb is fine... Though in the aggregate you're only getting one new spinner and the mine train (which I'm sure will be neat but you have to expect a mild, quick experience with an unmanageable line for the conceivable future) and a restaurant (again...mobbed...so it's gonna be awhile before its actually universally available)...
My problem is the ridiculous "out smarting the customer" timeline. 5 years is ridiculous. The whole of EPCOT was built in 4 years... And technology is far better now... And against inflation (and Disney's prices) labor is cheaper.
It's garbage how they build now...frankly. No urgency... Why? Obvious... Because fools like me will go one or more times a year while they dangle "carrots" such as these in front of us...and it ends up 8-10+ trips before we get to ride little mermaid. It works...but it's budget and pathetic.

Festival of the lion being moved changes nothing...moving a throng to the other side of the bridge. You know better than that..come on.

Avatarland may be great - most of us deep down hope- but again...the construction timeline is RIDICULOUS. If they announced it in 9/13 and it was being built now and opened even in 2016...maybe I could see it. But the timeline is laughable.

Downtown Disney needs it and I'm happy about that...but they did pull outright negligence with the pleasure island " closure" for five years.

Star Wars is pure conjecture... They know the following, they know the expectations, they are just letting the public spin and churn on it and may do so for sometime. In the end... It could be giftshops, meet and greets... Or some pathetic use of IP... Just like star tours.

I'm not saying they're not "spending money "... But that doesn't mean they're not trying to con us. I know... Negative...but can you dismiss it with confidence?

 

[Borishack]

Disney isn't exactly focusing on resorts.

- Alunia
- DVC GF
- DVC Poly
- Likely new DVC on the unused River Country Land

With New Fantasyland being added

As many, many others have observed, there is little in the so-called "new" Fantasyland that is really new and only one true new attraction (which is way, way behind schedule). If you read reviews the general sentiment is one big yawn.

construction on Avatarland beginning a few days ago

No, there was a puffy press event a few days ago. We will believe there is actual construction going on once there is clear evidence of it.

Festival of the Lion King being upgraded to a better structure

Yes, that's a real door-busting headliner that will bring in tons of new guest traffic.

and talk of Star Wars Land being built at DHS

As the saying goes, talk is cheap. People aren't going to flock to WDW because of vague and worthless Iger "teasers."

, and the revamp of Downtown Disney taking place

Stop the presses. More retail selling schlock and chain dining.

I just can't level with the "Disney needs to build more attractions" crowd.

They can't hear you, they're busy planning their trips to Universal this summer when Harry Potter Diagon Alley opens.

 

[Marine Mom]

Wait a minute...forgive me if I'm being rude,

But are you complaining about the construction of new attractions going on instead of new attractions?

Disney isn't exactly focusing on resorts. Let's remember that AoA sat abandoned for a decade before Disney felt the need to finish it, and other than DVC, I don't see any other resorts slotted to be constructed. I would think they are building more DVC because that's what the people want.

With New Fantasyland being added and still under construction, construction on Avatarland beginning a few days ago, Festival of the Lion King being upgraded to a better structure, and talk of Star Wars Land being built at DHS, and the revamp of Downtown Disney taking place...I just can't level with the "Disney needs to build more attractions" crowd.

 

[Joe in VA]

I agree with this sentiment, although I think too many resorts is misleading. Too many DVC resorts, the non DVC resorts are being ignored IMHO. I went to WDW 10+ times between 1992-2009. Have not been since.

If you went in 1999 you would have had a brand new theme park, MGM being only 11 years old and having RnRC brand new, Splash Mountain/AE/Buzz all built within 10 years in MK, Test Track/Innoventions both new at Epcot,West Side brand new/DisneyQuest, Blizzard Beach 3 years old, BWI/WL/PO/DL/CSR/ASp/ASM/ASMo all built within the last 10 years, and I'm sure a ton I'm forgetting.

Everything was new and exciting. Now these attractions/resorts are dated, and new attractions are not being built very often. I booked my first trip in 5 years a few months back at YC and canceled it this week.

Most reviews on TA mention the resort being worn, and at a discounted rate of $350 I just can't bring myself to pay that. For the same price I'm now staying at an incredible beachfront Hawaiian resort with breakfast for two every day and a $75 bev credit. I love Disney, but long for the days where there was always something exciting being built.

 

[Son of Gadsden]

- Alunia
- DVC GF
- DVC Poly
- Likely new DVC on the unused River Country Land

If you're going to quote me, quote the whole thing, not part of it.

"
Disney isn't exactly focusing on resorts. Let's remember that AoA sat abandoned for a decade before Disney felt the need to finish it, and other than DVC, I don't see any other resorts slotted to be constructed. I would think they are building more DVC because that's what the people want. "

The only resort you mentioned that wasn't a DVC was a resort in Hawaii. We're talking WDW, not Hawaii, or Disneyland, or Tokyo, or Paris. If we're going to do that, we have to bring Universal Hollywood into the conversation as well, and we'll combine all construction taking place at all Disney's international parks vs what's going on at Universal's. That's 15 against 6. Based on that, the "construction war" isn't even close. However, that's not very relevant to the conversation at hand. So, let's stay in Florida, shall we?

As many, many others have observed, there is little in the so-called "new" Fantasyland that is really new and only one true new attraction (which is way, way behind schedule). If you read reviews the general sentiment is one big yawn.

You can say that, but it doesn't make it true. Be Our Guest, Gaston's, Seven Dwarfs, Under the Sea, Fairytale Hall, Storybook Treats, Dumbo and its playground, the new circus character meet and greet, the new water area for kids, Enchanted Tales with Belle. In what universe are these not new attractions? They're barely a year old. Barnstormer and the train station were remodeled, but other than those, I don't see what case you have. Maybe you don't care for New Fantasyland, and as someone who has taken several statistics courses, the general consensus I always got from my professors was statistics are BS, and anyone who bases their opinions majorly on statistics is setting themselves up to fail. Reviews should be taken into consideration, but let's remember that the overwhelming majority of people who review are unsatisfied customers. Lots of people enjoy New Fantasyland. Regardless, Wizarding World isn't exactly knocking it out of the park. I've been there. We went to the Three Broomsticks, we walked in a couple shops, we walked through the castle and rode Dueling Dragons. Dueling Dragons and Flight of the Hippogriff aren't new attractions, by the way, if we're calling that out. So the Wizarding World expansion had a restaurant, some shops, and a dark ride inside a castle, and some new paint jobs on a couple rollercoasters. No, New Fantasyland isn't likely some amazing life changing experience unless you are a small child, but it's a much bigger expansion than Wizarding World was, and likely will still be more when you combine the new Wizarding World expansion.

No, there was a puffy press event a few days ago. We will believe there is actual construction going on once there is clear evidence of it.

The project has begun. You may be sour with Disney and want to downplay it and tell yourself it isn't happening, but that doesn't change that it is under construction right now.

Yes, that's a real door-busting headliner that will bring in tons of new guest traffic.

I was just bringing up another construction project improving the park. Once again, you can be sour with Disney and what they are doing, but it doesn't change the fact. You can't complain about them doing nothing, but ignore when they do make an improvement. Give credit when it's due.

As the saying goes, talk is cheap. People aren't going to flock to WDW because of vague and worthless Iger "teasers."

I hear this one was put on hold, but it's been speculation from the beginning, so who knows.

Stop the presses. More retail selling schlock and chain dining.

That doesn't change the fact that they are working on improving their parks. But don't let facts get in the way of your blind dislike towards Disney at the moment.

They can't hear you, they're busy planning their trips to Universal this summer when Harry Potter Diagon Alley opens.

Cool, I hope they have fun. Less crowds for me. I won't hold my breath though, I see they're still on the DISboards and not the Universal boards.

 

[mvk]

Stop the presses. More retail selling schlock and chain dining.



They can't hear you, they're busy planning their trips to Universal this summer when Harry Potter Diagon Alley opens.

It's funny that you put the first sentence before the last one, because Diagon Alley is nothing if not schlock and chain dining. There is one new ride, a transit system to get to the other park, and the rest is shops and dining.