Tomorrow's Oprah: What class are you?

[mlwear]

It will be interesting to see how the all-powerful Oprah defines class in our society
I agree that you can look at it from a social stand point, but when I think about lower, middle and upper class (and the subsets) I do think about household income.
Politicians are always telling us that this or that forgets about the middle class or the upper class are the only ones benefiting from certain programs and so forth. Certainly, they aren't referring to a person's character or spending habits. It is about their income.
I think there are many people who may seem or hope to be perceived as if they are in a different stereotyped income based class bracket, which would be a social issue, I guess. We all know plenty of people who are drowning in debt just so everyone will believe they earn more $ than what they really do. We may know few in the upper class who seem to be in the middle class because they choose to be frugal.
I guess we will see today how the show approaches the topic.

 

[powellrj]

I am sure someone around here has a copy of the post, but several years ago someone posted about how you could tell what class people were by what they "knew" how to do. Examples were lower class people knew how to apply and use public assistance, middle class people knew how to open and use bank accounts, upper class people knew all about investing. Another example was about how you order in resturants. Lower class people really didn't eat in resturants, middle class people were concerned with getting value for their money and upper class people were more interested in quailty over value.

I am not posting exactly how it was, but you get the idea.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I just checked our information and it says our show is about a 3 year old and her looks.

 

[imsayin]

I just checked our information and it says our show is about a 3 year old and her looks

That's Monday's show.

I didn't see the show, but oprah.com says: upper class income over $70,000, middle class income $25,000-$70,000, and lower class income under $25,000. Interesting.

I think I'll tape the 2 am showing. Looks like they cover things like class perception, as we've discussed here.

 

[Amii]

I didn't see the show, but oprah.com says: upper class income over $70,000, middle class income $25,000-$70,000, and lower class income under $25,000. Interesting.

Ugh. I guess we just make it into the upper class and we are always broke.

 

[mickeyfan2]

That's Monday's show.

I didn't see the show, but oprah.com says: upper class income over $70,000, middle class income $25,000-$70,000, and lower class income under $25,000. Interesting.

I think I'll tape the 2 am showing. Looks like they cover things like class perception, as we've discussed here.

Ummmm.....our TV digital guide must be wrong. I won't know until 4 pm.

 

[Chicago526]

That's Monday's show.

I didn't see the show, but oprah.com says: upper class income over $70,000, middle class income $25,000-$70,000, and lower class income under $25,000. Interesting.

I think I'll tape the 2 am showing. Looks like they cover things like class perception, as we've discussed here.

Ummm, yeah. Around here, $70,000 is middle class. So is $100,000 for that matter. Housing prices cause this, mostly. If house cost 2/3 less than they did, that would be a differant story!

 

[KelNottAt]

I didn't see the show, but oprah.com says: upper class income over $70,000, middle class income $25,000-$70,000, and lower class income under $25,000. Interesting.

Those incomes seem low to me, too. I wonder if they're individual or total household amonts.

 

[dvcgirl]

Ummm, yeah. Around here, $70,000 is middle class. So is $100,000 for that matter. Housing prices cause this, mostly. If house cost 2/3 less than they did, that would be a differant story!

Oh, I totally agree....70K is *far* from upper class. Upper class to me means big money....and most importantly, not living paycheck to paycheck. We know a zillion people making over 100K who are living paycheck to paycheck. Try living in California on 70K...forget it.

 

[musicotb]

I'm guessing that the standards Oprah is using are based on a standard normal curve of incomes in the United States. According the Census Bureau, the median household income in 2003 was about $43K.

I think the interesting thing about income level is that some people can be constantly broke but make upwards of $100K annually, while someone making $40K/year is always doign financially well. I think the problem is the lack of a solid financial education (about budgeting, savings, credit, investment, etc.). Because an individual's education on personal finance usually comes from his/her parents, it is so difficult to learn any better if you're parents can't manage money. Then, if you can't manage your own money, how can you teach your children how to do so? When I was getting my B.A., I ran up a lot of credit card debt because I didn't know a thing abotu credit. Now, in gradute school, and with a wonderful role model in my boyfriend, I am learning to manage money much more effectively. Unfortunately, I think that poor financial management skills can make a "rich" man very poor very quickly. It doesn't matter what you make if you can't spend it correctly.

 

[DVCLiz]

Well, I thought the show was very interesting!!! I do think they should have tried to find two families with the same set up. I thought it was a little bit of a reach - I know what they were trying to do, but comparing discipline in a family with two children vs. five children seems to give an automatic advantage to the family with the smaller number of children. The children were also much older in the "wealthy" family - that mom with the two boys wasn't even at the age where she WOULD be driving around to soccer, even if she couldn't afford to anyway. I thought Oprah was trying to say that good old-fashioned discipline was being used in the "poor" family and the "wealthy" family wasn't doing a good job of disciplining their children.

Also, every mom I ever knew who didn't want to go back to work used the old "I wouldn't make enough to cover daycare" argument, and I'm not sure I buy that. If one of her children was already in school, and the other looked to be at least four, I think she could have found some kind of work, at least a few hours a week. I guess she felt trapped by minimum wage jobs and couldn't see a way to pay for any childcare.

Anyway, I'd be bummed if I were a Buffet grandchild!!!!

 

[mjbaby]

I was kind of disappointed in the show. I felt that there was so much focus on the money and not really enough on the social factors or "cultural capital" that has such an impact on class and whether or not one truly can change one's class.

 

[dvcgirl]

I just watched the show and thought that the best part of the show was the portion on the difference between the "working class" family and the "upper class" family, although, I must say that I really think that the "upper class" family was more "upper middle class".

Also totally agree with the fact that the separation between the classes is really widening. The loss of manufacturing jobs is making that even more inevitable. We're really seeing that here in Orlando. So many of the apartment complexes have gone condo, and for many of the people living in those apartments buying their home an impossible dream.

 

[disneysteve]

I also thought the comparison between the 2 families was interesting, and sad... for the upper class family. They are totally allowing peer pressure to rule their lives. They are letting their neighbors dictate what kind of car they drive, what kind of furniture they own, what lawn service they use. They are letting their kids' classmates dictate what kind of clothes they buy. What a terrible way to raise your family. Talk about keeping up with the Joneses.

And what about the girl with the $200 jeans? I can't imagine why her sister calls her snooty. I don't think my wife has spent $200 total on jeans in the past 5 years.

Jamie Johnson was interesting. Obviously the black sheep of the family - there's always one. I'd love to see his documentary. I'll have to remember to get it when it hits DVD. I also thought he made an interesting comment about how his father can't give a good reason to explain why they are so rich. The generation that created the business and earned the fortune certainly could. But the subsequent generations that merely inherited the fortune got it without doing all the hard work. Interesting to show how the different generations are affected by that.

As for Warren Buffet's granddaughter, she seemed pretty well grounded and only a little bit resentful of granddad. (And she was gorgeous - just had to throw that in).

And how sad that the African American guy they spoke to thought the only way for his kids to be successful was to become rappers. What fine role models.

An interesting show.

 

[luvnmy2bys]

My husband and I make $140,000 combined salary a year. I feel strongly to be middle -middle class. We came from middle class and I feel that no matter how much money we make we will always be middle class. However my SIL's husband came from money with an upper class upbringing. They make less than us (about $100,00 combined) but are strongly upper class. I think it's all in the attitude we have about money and that is how we are defined and define ourselves. I just feel "middle-class". I shop at walmart and Target and Kohl's if I want something a little nicer. My SIL shops at Nordstroms. I drive a 4 year van. SIL drives a new Lincoln Navigator. You see what I am getting at. Education might play a role on income level but even with my Masters degree I still feel middle class. By the way my husband has a high school diploma and makes twice as much as I do.
Luvnmy2bys

 

[disneysteve]

My husband and I make $140,000 combined salary a year... We came from middle class and I feel that no matter how much money we make we will always be middle class. However my SIL's husband came from money with an upper class upbringing. They make less than us (about $100,00 combined) but are strongly upper class. I think it's all in the attitude we have about money and that is how we are defined and define ourselves. I just feel "middle-class". I shop at walmart and Target and Kohl's if I want something a little nicer. My SIL shops at Nordstroms.

Very interesting comparison. So the lower earning couple shops at the luxury upscale stores while the folks earning 40% more are the discount shoppers. I wonder whose personal finances are in better shape. I have a feeling it is you and your husband.

 

[kinntj]

I also thought the comparison between the 2 families was interesting, and sad... for the upper class family. They are totally allowing peer pressure to rule their lives. They are letting their neighbors dictate what kind of car they drive, what kind of furniture they own, what lawn service they use. They are letting their kids' classmates dictate what kind of clothes they buy. What a terrible way to raise your family. Talk about keeping up with the Joneses.

And what about the girl with the $200 jeans? I can't imagine why her sister calls her snooty. I don't think my wife has spent $200 total on jeans in the past 5 years.

Agree! We live in an upper middle class neighborhood and my neighbors don't dictate what I wear. Although, I have to admit that we do dress out DD's nicely, but because we buy out neighbors kids old designer clothes at the neighborhood garage sales.

Very interesting show and the angle they took. It makes you think. I was raised low working class, but my dad pushed higher education for us so that we would have choices.

 

[aka-mad4themouse]

My DD15 was showing me a teen magazine that she reads. She pointed out the clothing ($85 jeans, $300 dresses, $100 shoes). She wants to know who has that kind of money to blow on clothes? She's perfectly happy with the cute jeans that we picked up at TJ Maxx for $12! I just love that kid!

 

[DVC Sadie]

Very interesting comparison. So the lower earning couple shops at the luxury upscale stores while the folks earning 40% more are the discount shoppers. I wonder whose personal finances are in better shape. I have a feeling it is you and your husband.

I see what you are saying or in this case not saying. It seems that some lower income families have always bought more expensive and more often the things that they believe that the upper middle class buys. It's all a matter of perception.

We do believe that in most cases you will become the same class as you were born. Of course there are some exceptions.

The level of education is a large factor. The college or university that a person receives their diploma plays a very important role in how the person is not only perceived but has the added bonus of connections that are usually invaluable.

What was surprising to us was the fact that neither Oprah or the former secretary of labor Mr. Reich discussed the overwhelming amounts of money that is donated by the 1%, to fund all different types of programs that benefit all classes of people.

 

[jonestavern]

I had to laugh--or cry--at what those who thought of themselves as upper class using for definition--as disneysteve said-- material objects.
Is that crass or class?

IMHO,the waitress who was class conflicted--I respect her job as a waitress, it's the other portion of dedicated, relentless consumption portrayed, I find trashy.
Does she have another side?
Or did the show define 'class' as strictly monetary?
I know it mentioned diction, appearance in reference to a healthy body.

Pride of class: is contributing to a community, helping others, being useful & helping your children to live constructive, healthy, disciplined lives.

I thought what was said about the upper 1% of Americans' wealth being greater than the income of all other Americans combined is stunningly gross~
In many cases the charity seems pretty left handed, the right hand being involved in, for generations, working fast & loose to preserve & perpetuate that wealth by any & every means possible~This is not to smack those that are legitimate Samaritans, I just personally believe that number to be very low. How about the rest of us who give to charities, I'll bet the relative percentage is higher--let's talk the Widow's Mite~

A higher education doesn't necessarily gain entree into the upper class as it may have done even 40 years ago--
I don't see how anyone earning $100,000 per annum could be considered upper class--that designation must have been put in place to have our economic picture look better than it actually is~
We earn over that & like the luvinmy2boys said, we shop at Target, Costco clip coupons. We drive used & economic cars--Hondas--, no private schools & our house was a fixer upper~Our big luxury is DVC~Other than my engagement ring, I have no serious jewelry & if I spend $200 on a pair of jeans, you'll know I'm ready for the nursing home-

Jean