Indimom, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.
Second, you are misunderstanding what I said, too,
so it's obviously something in what
I communicated that is off.
I didn't say, or meant to infer that proning was a new technique, or that this doctor I watched, had said he invented the technique. I *think* I get now that you and Pea-n-me are saying this is such a common technique, that
of course, it would have been used and been thought of to use.
But, actually when the Coronavirus hit the U.S., about 10 weeks ago, proning was
not a technique that was being done on COVID patients.
When they started doing it, that's the "new" part. Not that the technique itself is new. I think that point is where we are off in our communications.
I couldn't find the video I saw, but Googling with some of the search terms you and Pea-n-Me used in your posts,
I finally found, what I think is a better video which explains what I am talking about.
This video shows firsthand interviews, Pea-n-me, a criteria said to be on the look out for,
by some of the actual COVID doctors, who are all named, and where they work. The interviews are unfortunately spliced together. But, put together by The New York Times. It's by an organization I believe in. For those that may be suspicious of the news put out by the Times and think these could all just be actors, I have included other more neutral links which mention the same thing. No charts are included which could be created for an agenda. Note the dates on all the articles. They appear, starting in April, after only a few weeks of proning.
The video (below) appears in conjunction with an article written by the NY Times titled:
What Doctors on the Front Lines Wish They’d Known a Month Ago.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus.html
Also
reposted here (no video) for people who can't reach the NYTimes site, due to subscription problems:
https://rickhodes.org/covid19/3
Snipped excerpts from article: (Bolding mine.)
(Published April 14, 2020)
"Doctors say the coronavirus is challenging core tenets of medicine, leading some to abandon long-established ventilator protocols for certain patients. But other doctors warn this could be dangerous.
Just about a month ago, people stricken with the new coronavirus started to arrive in unending ranks at hospitals in the New York metropolitan area, forming the white-hot center of the pandemic in the United States.
Now, doctors in the region have started sharing on medical grapevines what it has been like to re-engineer, on the fly, their health care systems, their practice of medicine, their personal lives.
Doctors, if you could go back in time, what would you tell yourselves in early March?
“What we thought we knew, we don’t know,” said Dr. Nile Cemalovic, an intensive care physician at Lincoln Medical Center in the Bronx. [...]
The biggest change: Instead of quickly sedating people who had shockingly low levels of oxygen and then putting them on mechanical ventilators, many doctors are now keeping patients conscious, having them roll over in bed, recline in chairs and continue to breathe on their own — with additional oxygen — for as long as possible.
The idea is to get them off their backs and thereby make more lung available. A number of doctors are even trying patients on a special massage mattress designed for pregnant women because it has cutouts that ease the load on the belly and chest. [...]
At Lincoln Hospital in the Bronx, Dr. Nicholas Caputo followed 50 patients who arrived with low oxygen levels between 69 and 85 percent (95 is normal). After five minutes of proning, they had improved to a mean of 94 percent. Over the next 24 hours, nearly three-quarters were able to avoid intubation; 13 needed ventilators. Proning does not seem to work as well in older patients, a number of doctors said.
No one knows yet if this will be a lasting remedy, Dr. Caputo said, but if he could go back to early March, he would advise himself and others: “Don’t jump to intubation.”
The total number of people who are intubated is now increasing by 21 per day, down from about 300 at the end of March. The need for mechanical ventilators, while still urgent, has been less than the medical community anticipated a month ago.
Accompanying video of doctors:
(The 2:00 min mark shows a Dr. talking about the dilemma of ventilators.)
From NYU Langone Medical Center:
https://nyulangone.org/news/why-some-patients-covid-19-are-placed-their-stomachs
(April 16, 2020)
"[one simple option has emerged as one of the best ways to help the patients struggling against the respiratory virus to breathe — placing them on their stomachs, called pronation.]
“We have been using pronation for the past weeks and we have seen improvement in patients’ blood levels of oxygen,” Dr. Jorge Mercado, associate section chief of pulmonary, critical care and sleep medicine at NYU Langone Hospital–Brooklyn, tells PEOPLE, adding that it has worked both with patients who are on ventilators and those without them. [...]"
The Miami Herald:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242012816.html
(April 15, 2020)
"Dr. David Farcy [not to be confused with Dr. Fauci] was in the midst of a discussion about treatment with a severely ill COVID-19 patient at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach when he realized something unusual. [...]
Six weeks ago, Farcy said he or any other emergency medicine doctor in the country would have rushed to intubate the patient, putting him on a ventilator that would breathe for him in the hope that he would be able to recover from the illness caused by the novel coronavirus. But in recent weeks, propelled by online discussion in the medical community and a letter by a highly influential critical care doctor, some emergency medicine physicians have started rethinking the traditional way of treating acute respiratory distress syndrome, or ARDS., which can occur in severe cases of COVID-19.
Instead of automatically putting patients on ventilators, doctors are sometimes trying a method of helping patients breathe that involves placing them on their sides or bellies, and administering oxygen.
And though some prominent doctors have remained skeptical about the approach, saying there isn’t enough evidence that it works, others are trying it.
In the case of his recent patient, Farcy decided to see if the new approach would help. He told the patient to lie on his side while receiving oxygen, a posture that changes the way air and blood flows through the lungs. And the patient improved. His blood oxygen — the amount of oxygen present in the bloodstream, an important indicator of health — rose.
“This disease is not something we’ve ever seen, and not just as in, this is a new, novel disease, but this disease has challenged medical theories that I’ve been lecturing [about] for years,” Farcy said. “Until I saw it with my own eyes, I could not believe what I was seeing." [...]
“[A letter written by an Italian anesthesiologist named Luciano Gattinoni, relayed findings from researchers in Germany and Italy] said we’re doing this wrong,” Scott said. “We should not be intubating everyone like China. We’re looking at a complicated disease that has two different presentations.”
The Associated Press:
https://apnews.com/8ccd325c2be9bf454c2128dcb7bd616d
(April 8, 2020)
"NEW YORK (AP) — As health officials around the world push to get more ventilators to treat coronavirus patients, some doctors are moving away from using the breathing machines when they can.
The reason: Some hospitals have reported unusually high death rates for coronavirus patients on ventilators, and some doctors worry that the machines could be harming certain patients.
The evolving treatments highlight the fact that doctors are still learning the best way to manage a virus that emerged only months ago. They are relying on anecdotal, real-time data amid a crush of patients and shortages of basic supplies.
Mechanical ventilators push oxygen into patients whose lungs are failing. Using the machines involves sedating a patient and sticking a tube into the throat. Deaths in such sick patients are common, no matter the reason they need the breathing help. [...]
Generally speaking, 40% to 50% of patients with severe respiratory distress die while on ventilators, experts say. But 80% or more of coronavirus patients placed on the machines in New York City have died, state and city officials say.
Higher-than-normal death rates also have been reported elsewhere in the U.S., said Dr. Albert Rizzo, the American Lung Association’s chief medical officer.
Similar reports have emerged from China and the United Kingdom. One U.K. report put the figure at 66%. A very small study in Wuhan, the Chinese city where the disease first emerged, said 86% died.
The reason is not clear. It may have to do with what kind of shape the patients were in before they were infected. Or it could be related to how sick they had become by the time they were put on the machines, some experts said."
