To Tip or Not To Tip (long)

[julieannbabe]

coming from the UK i always feel pressurised to tip while over in the States.

i always tip cab drivers, waitresses, bus drivers and mouse keeping regardless of the service.

 

[TenderDonkey]

This has got to be one of the stupidest threads I have ever read. Tipping is simple - if you get good service throw them a few bucks. If you don't, don't give them anything.

As far as the "they only make X a hour” argument – If you think you deserve more money work harder or get a new job. None of us are slaves and we are not forced to work anywhere. I’ve waited tables, worked in retail, taught surfing lessons, etc… Every one of those jobs I knew how much I was going to make as a base before I accepted employment.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

I always find these threads fascinating....

We do tip mousekeeping, generally about $3-5 per day as we often stay in a junior suite so there is more to clean.

I seriously doubt that mousekeepers make $10/hr...standard CMs in retail, food service and attractions based roles only make minimum ($7.25/hr). That is $13,900/year. A standard mousekeeper cleans an average of 10 rooms per day. I'd say about 1/2 of the guests tip, about $1/guest/day.

10 rooms is an average of 30 people. 15 of whom tip $15. $15/day in tips is only an extra $3600 in income per year!

$13,900 + $3600 = $17,500/year is the average income of a Mousekeeper with tips.

AND even if they did make $10/hr that would only make their income $22,800/year with tips.

Servers typically make 1/3rd of minimum, so that would put them at $2.42/hour.

Out of curiosity I ran numbers for 4 types of restaurants:

Buffet - Crystal Palace
- servers at Crystal Palace serve a max of 4 tables per seating (estimating slightly higher due to less service, no bringing food etc.)
- Averaging 40 hours/week at 1/3 minimum wage their annual base earnings are approx $4500.
- An average table here would likely be 3 patrons, to balance couples and families.
- $28.99/adult no alcohol served in MK.
- 1920 tables ($16 tip average). $30,700 per year

$4500 + $30,700 = $35,220/year for an average Crystal Palace server

Moderately Priced - Kona Cafe
- servers at Kona Cafe serve a max of 3 tables per seating (estimating off CG number).
- Averaging 40 hours/week at 1/3 minimum wage their annual base earnings are approx $4500.
- An average table here would likely be 3 patrons, to balance couples and families.
- Let's consider an average order to be appetizer, entree and dessert for each guest and again, let's say 2/3rds of the tables order alcohol (a glass of wine for each adult - 2).
- Selecting items that are in the average price tange this puts the meal at $
$45/person with wine and $35/person without wine.
- 1440 tables in a year. 960 with wine ($24 tip average). 480 without wine ($19 tip average). $41,700 per year.

$4500 + $41,700 = $46,200/year for an average Kona Cafe server

Signature - California Grill
- servers at California Grill serve a max of 3 tables per seating (I have a friend that works here) and there are 2 seatings per night approx.
- Averaging 40 hours/week at 1/3 minimum wage their annual base earnings are approx $4500.
- An average table here would likely be 3 patrons, to balance couples and families.
- Let's consider an average order to be appetizer, entree and dessert for each guest and again, let's say 2/3rds of the tables order alcohol (a glass of wine for each adult - 2).
- Selecting items that are in the average price range this puts the meal at $75/person with wine, $60/person without wine.
- 1440 tables in a year. 960 with wine ($38 tip average). 480 without wine ($33 tip average). $52,200 per year.

$4500 + $52,200 = $56,700 per year for an average California Grill server

Victoria & Albert's
- servers at V&A serve a maximum of 2 tables per seating.
- There are 2 seatings per night from October - May and 1 seating per night from June - September (approx, there are specific cutoff dates).
- Averaging 40 hours/week at 1/3 minimum wage their annual base earnings are approx $4500.
- A standard table at V&A is 2 guests at $125/person for food and $60/person for wine. I'm going to guess that 2/3rd of guests take the wine pairing offer.
- 640 tables (Oct-May) 448 with wine ($67 tip per table average), 192 without wine ($45 tip per table average). That is an average of $38,600 or so for 8 months work.
- 320 tables (June - Sept) 214 with wine ($67 tip per table average). 106 without wine ($45 tip per table average). This is an average of $19,000 or so for 4 months work.
- There is 1 server PER PERSON/table, so that *could* be divided by 3, but since 1 server is listed as the lead and the other 2 assist I assume the breaddown is different and will not attempt to calculate it. Just bear in mind the number below is likely slightly inflated.

$4500 + $38,000 + 19,000 = $61,500/year for an average Victoria & Albert's server

 

[ginnymack]

I think the averages would actually be much lower - 1-2 hours per shift are in the "back of the house" when you cannot earn tips. (doing prep work, cleaning up, etc) Also, about 15-20% of your earnings you pay out to support staff.

Most servers in decent restaurants earn a fair living wage - but no server is going to get rich waiting tables.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

I think the averages would actually be much lower - 1-2 hours per shift are in the "back of the house" when you cannot earn tips. (doing prep work, cleaning up, etc) Also, about 15-20% of your earnings you pay out to support staff.

Most servers in decent restaurants earn a fair living wage - but no server is going to get rich waiting tables.

Oh I agree, they could be lower. I wasn't trying to say that servers get rich from tips. One poster had mentioned a waitress at the Crystal Palace making $80,000/year and I thought that wad outrageous so I did the math.

My friend that works at the California Grill has a 2nd job. Serving is hard work and what I was pointing out is that sone servers in the higher end restaurants have opportunity to earn a very good wage from tips, but they are far from wealthy.

 

[ginnymack]

Ahh - I get what you are saying!:

I remember my first waitressing job. After "working" for 3 hours in a really bad dive of a restaurant my boyfriend and I pooled our tips so that we would have enough for a pair of big mac value meals from the drive through!

I did work at a nice restauant in a resort area and did pretty well. I would average 80-100 per night. (more on the weeknights, less before the season got going) It was 10 years ago and I was in college. I was able to earn my "beer money" for much of the following school year if I saved well. Of course, it was seasonal work, so the full time wait staff really had to save because the restauant actually closed for several months of the year...

 

[Ember]

I tip, and tip well, due to social pressure. I don't agree with the practice at all and think the whole thing as gotten silly. First 10%, then 15%, and now 20% is considered "baseline." We now have restaurants who will call the police if you don't tip, or refuse to serve you. Wait staff will wax on poetically about how this is how they make their money, they "deserve" to be tipped, regardless of the level of service provided. This is no longer a tip, it is a fee. Why not give it up, stop pretending it's optional, and just add a service fee. Then all expectations are clear, and everyone knows what's going on.

I am willing to admit, however, that I don't stand strong enough to my convictions that tipping is nonsense to not do it, though I wish I did.

 

[Rainwater]

I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to start a fresh discussion and share my thoughts. Our family is taking a trip in June, and I just want to feel prepared and do what is right.

Let me preface this discussion by saying that I've held several jobs in my lifetime where I depended on tips to pay my bills. I've waitressed and spent 7 years in young adulthood working in a casino as a card and dice dealer. In each of those jobs the company paid me minimum wage with a pitiful yearly raise even with stellar employee reviews. Were it not for my tips, I simply could not have made a living.

Having said that, when I believe service warrents it, I am a very good tipper. However, I also believe that there are now some folks who either think they deserve tips, or even ask for them (tip jar at the register) who shouldn't necessarily receive them.

A good example is in an ice cream store where the employee scoops my ice cream. How does that warrent a tip? How are they providing me with beyond the call of duty, excellent service. Frankly I find tip jars to be extremely offensive. This is true in a coffee shop as well. Why am I tipping somebody who pours me a cup of coffee? If you disagree with me on this one, I'm interested to hear the argument. I might be missing something.

Now..my list for Disney World employees:

Tip Worthy

-The bus driver who loads and unloads my luggage for the Magic Express ride. He/She is doing extra work so that I can relax. And it is common knowledge that this is a tipping job. Some of those drivers go out of their way to make our first Disney experience extremely pleasant. 1 dollar a bag? or more?

-Cocktails at an bar/pool lounge etc. This is a no brainer. Bartenders work for tips. I generally tip .50-1.00 per drink.

Waiters in a restaurant/AND buffet. This is also a no brainer. I'm not sure the buffet folks always get tipped. My husband and I always leave something on the table for the person who served our drinks and cleaned up.

-Cab Drivers. We don't really use this service, but if we did, we'd tip about 10 percent of the fare.

Bell Hops. This too, is a no brainer. They work for tips. I'm not certain of the proper tip, though. $1 per bag? or $2? Just not sure.


No Tip

(unless provided with exceptional service above and beyond the call of duty)

-Housekeeping. This is the one that I think may raise the most eyebrows. We don't generally tip and I'll tell you why. Housekeeping comes in, cleans my room and leaves. This is their job. They don't interact with me and generally my family is pretty clean and does not leave them any extra mess. I'd be curious to hear info about their hourly wage as this might change my mind on this issue. But if they are getting paid 7 to 10 dollars an hour as are most other non tipped cast members, I don't believe this should be a tipping position.

-Bus drivers that take folks from resorts to parks. I don't believe this is meant to be a tipping position. There is one example, however where my husband tipped one gentleman. We had arrived at MK and realized that we left our park entry tickets in our room. DH had to catch the next bus back and retrieve them. The nice fellow who picked him up actually waited for him at the bus stop while he ran to our room to get our tickets. DH tipped him 10 dollars and was very thankful for not having to wait for the next bus.

-Food court employees. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

-Restroom attendents.

If anyone wants to add to either list, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say. Thanks for any input.

:Your post was way to long.....I'll make it simple for you. If the service is not way above average, then no tip.

 

[goofy4tink]

I am so grateful that there are people out there willing to clean my toilet that I gladly tip and I am not looking for any towel animals. We have had housekeepers in Disney and Vegas stop us to give us heartfelt smiles and a big thank-you- and that starts my day off with a big smile.

Just a note- buffet servers do as much(if not more) work than menu servers.

My one beef lately though is Disney tacking on 18% tip to tables of 6 or more. We got some very bad service our last trip because the tip was a given. One server at WCC actually chased me into the lobby to tell me I did not leave her enough. Our tip was over $50 and my sister left her half at her end of the table and I left my half at my end. This was the fastest we seen her move for the whole dinner.

If that had been my experience, I would have turned right around and talked to the manager!! One time, at Crystal Palace, we had a truly dreadful server. He took at least 15 mins getting to us, after we were seated, to take our beverage orders. Then, we had to flag down another server to get refills...after waiting 20 mins for our server to show up. He never took our dirty dishes away. We spent about 90 mins in that restaurant that time....about 30 mins more than we usually spend there. It is one of our 'must do' spots, so we pretty much know what to expect. We had to, yet again, flag down another server to find our server so we could get our bill. That took another 15 mins!!! Did I leave a tip? Yep...one dollar bill. And when we were leaving, the manager asked how our meal was. I told him it was fine but the service was atrocious!!! He asked me to stop and let him take care of it for me. I told him no, that wasn't necessary, but he really should speak to that server. And pointed to the table where we had been seated.

This has got to be one of the stupidest threads I have ever read. Tipping is simple - if you get good service throw them a few bucks. If you don't, don't give them anything.

As far as the "they only make X a hour” argument – If you think you deserve more money work harder or get a new job. None of us are slaves and we are not forced to work anywhere. I’ve waited tables, worked in retail, taught surfing lessons, etc… Every one of those jobs I knew how much I was going to make as a base before I accepted employment.

Stupid?? Really. This is a discussion board. There are plenty of subjects that many will feel have been discussed to death. If someone doesn't want to talk about it, no one is forcing them to. Just don't open the thread. Not to mention...someone was only asking when it was traditional to tip. It's up to each person to decide if a tip is deserved, and how much.

 

[korie]

Funny story about tipping (I know I know, alot of people hate this thread, but I just thought I'd share...) When we were at Tusker House for the buffet breakfast a couple weeks ago, we asked for the bill and my DH gave the waitress his KTTW card (we were on the DDP). She asked if he wanted to add in anything for gratuity and he said "No we're all set", b/c he was leaving cash. She assumed that meant he wasn't going to tip her, and brought him this little printed card, which told all about how it is customary to tip WDW servers, even at buffets, etc etc. He then explained that he was leaving cash and pointed to the $15 he left on the table. It was an honest misunderstanding, but he was totally put off by it!

We tipped mousekeeping $10 while we were there b/c they only came once. It was just the quickie trash service at the villas and they left us some more coffee packets...I don't think they did anything else.

 

[ginnymack]

Why not give it up, stop pretending it's optional, and just add a service fee. Then all expectations are clear, and everyone knows what's going on.

I am willing to admit, however, that I don't stand strong enough to my convictions that tipping is nonsense to not do it, though I wish I did.

Nicely said!

It is kind of crazy, but with the current system, you kind of have to look at your server and an independant contractor! It is kind of sad to think that waiting tables is one of the only jobs that you can regularly perform a service and not get paid for it - with no recourse. If you were a general contractor and were not paid for your services you would have some legal remedies.

A service fee would be much more appropriate - then a customer really could reward superior service with something extra. (And conversly, if service not up to standard, the manager could be contacted to a) reduce the fee and b) address the problem if it in fact was a problem within the server's control!

 

[disneyfav4ever]

This has got to be one of the stupidest threads I have ever read. Tipping is simple - if you get good service throw them a few bucks. If you don't, don't give them anything.

As far as the "they only make X a hour” argument – If you think you deserve more money work harder or get a new job. None of us are slaves and we are not forced to work anywhere. I’ve waited tables, worked in retail, taught surfing lessons, etc… Every one of those jobs I knew how much I was going to make as a base before I accepted employment.

Yes, but they accept those jobs knowing that those are tipped positions.

 

[Texas Rob]

My 2 cents are simple...

We tip who we want and when we want, not because it is socially required of us to tip.

We usually tip generously because most people who serve us are kind and hard working. I also tip to teach my children to respect the people who are waiting on you. This is a good lesson for children to understand that they shouldn't expect people to wait on them hand and foot for free.

 

[Andrea73]

If a server ever ran me down because they got less than what they think they deserved, I would be horrified!! That takes a lot of nerve IMO. Especially if they were not attentive and knew it. WOW!!

And I do think tipping is out of control. I wonder how much the CRT folks make with a fully booked house every night and 18% of the over priced menu guaranteed from every table? (Even though I assume it is shared with other wait staff)

 

[beautyqueen]

What a PP mentioned is what worries me about our trip. We are a family of 6 so we get the 18% added on to our bill, that is even though my youngest isn't on the DP since he is only 1y/o, and my dd's eat such small amounts that we will probably only order one meal for the the both of them to share, so really there is only going to be 2 adult meals and 2 child meals ordered at the sitdowns, I know that we only have to tip the 18% on the amount ordered and we can give more if we would like, since there are going to be 6 of us to take care of with things like drinks/extra plates for the 3y/o and 1y/o to eat from, things like that....so really if it is excellent service I would be not tipping enough by giving the 18% (I know I can add more to it) but if it isn't excellent service I still have to tip the 18% even at a buffet where we will all be eating and the tip will be higher....

So do you think that is right? I mean, since all the kids pay even tho they don't eat much at a buffet the automatic 18% will give the buffet server a higher tip amount than the 18% will at a menu sit down *for us*.

ETA: that was a long little ramble, lol, sorry if I confused anyone, I'm a little confused myself (happens a lot)

 

[SuzySparkle]

The server doesn't demand it. No person 'demands' it. It's the way the service industry works.

Chances are your imaginary server is not working forty hours a week, nor five days a week, nor eight hours a day. For VERY FEW people is restaurant service a full-time, permanent position. And you do NOT want a server with fifteen tables. FIFTEEN table? Really??? Six tables wouldn't be a small restaurant, it would be a typical (chain) restaurant with six times x tables and ideally enough servers to staff those tables.

Let's say they work the more likely six hours a day, three days a week. Out of those six hours, maybe four are spent serving. An hour is devoted to set-up and prep; another hour to clean-up and prep for the next day. So, four hours times six tables times three diners.

The economy stinks right now (not sure if you're aware) so the average check would tend to be more in the range of $15 - assuming all diners are adults. So, $45 per table, times 15%. Figure each table turns over once an hour, so twenty-four parties, or $162. The server needs to tip out the bartender (yes, even just for pouring soda), the bus persons, the food runners, sometimes the host/esses. Figure $150, times three days = $450. Add that to the - shocking! - $42.35 the restaurant PAYS them for those same eighteen hours, you get $492.35.

You end up with a much less enviable - but far more realistic - PRE-tax annual earning of $25,599.60.

This is waaaaaaay more accurate than the person who reasoned out a six-figure salary for a server!!! Maybe in resort towns, but absolutely NOT in 80% of the server jobs held. Even in resort towns, you get a mix of good and bad tippers. If that other figure were correct, people would be BEGGING to wait tables!

 

[Don Disney]

We tip Mousekeeping,Magic Express driver,and the wait staff at restaurants;We do it to show appreciation for GOOD or GREAT services rendered-mind you,if it is EXPECTED-they get the old goose-egg,nada,zilch,zippo etc...Most of the time,they deserve something,and it doesn't have to be according to "society's" standard,but to what I think is fair,and what I can afford to give;that being said,they wore me out during our 10 nights of "Free-Dining last Sept!!! It was nice being able to give decent tips to everyone who deserved it! It's an individual decision.

 

[AmberHeartsDisney]

If someone does a good job we tip them. Are mousekeeper was GREAT and we talked to her oh most every morning. She was always nice and friendly and cleaned are room right after we left.

Sit down resturant server hmm we didnt have someone do are bags so we didnt have anyone to tip.

 

[mariepapa]

We did not tip our Mousekeeper. The servers, yes, and they got at least 20%. But our Mousekeeper repeatedly refused to bring us towels that we asked for and kept throwing away our cups without bringing new ones. Why did she deserve a tip? No excellent service there!

 

[mwatson011]

Ok, I don't want to talk about the server issue. I used to be a server, blah, blah, blah...used to over-tip because I was a server...now am grown up, realize I work hard for my $ too, tip accordingly.

I am with the OP whose issue was more or less (IIRC) the sub shop, pizza shop, ice cream stand, donut shop, etc. who have a tip jar staring you in the face when you order or pick up your food. I despise these tip jars.

I would like someone to explain to me the difference between:

1) the woman behind the counter at a donut shop boxing you a donut and taking your money

2) the woman behind the counter at JCPenney boxing you a pair of earrings and taking your money

And since I am fairly sure the only difference is you walking away with a donut vs. a pair of earrings, why would you tip the donut lady?