tips....not the average question

[DL1957]

I have been told that DCL makes up the difference in short tips for the crew except the head server as they get a pretty nice salary. If one of the tipped positions has several times (not sure how many times) they generally do not get their contact renewed. A crew member shared this with us several years ago and it was the reason he had moved to DCL from Holland America.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Odd, others have reported they removed all automatic tips with no questions asked.

Perhaps they used to do this when they first came out with auto tipping and then realized they should find out more about why a passenger doesn't want to tip.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Perhaps they used to do this when they first came out with auto tipping and then realized they should find out more about why a passenger doesn't want to tip.

I'm inclined to think it's the other way around. in 2012 the auto gratuity thing was new. Maybe the Guest Relations people hadn't worked out how to handle removal of tips yet.

More recently, it's been reported that is not really an issue to remove them.

On other cruise lines (where it's actually called a Hotel Service Charge), removing them is a real hassle. You have to explain why. And any cash tips anyone gets have to be turned in to be confirmed that the HSC was still in place. If so, they get the cash tips back. If not, then the cash tips were pooled to be divided the way the HSC is. I will point out that the HSC is typically divided among the "regular" dining room servers, room stewards, as well as back stage personnel (laundry, etc).

 

[hmurray2008]

The concept of automatic gratuities annoys me to no end! I pride myself on being a generous tipper - to wait staff, delivery persons, hairdressers - you name it. But not if the service is substandard or the person in question is rude or inappropriate.

While I understand that many in the service industry count on tips in order to subsidize low wages, I DO NOT think that I should have to overlook poor service.

On a recent vacation, I was in a high end restaurant where the server was consistently horrible throughout the entire dining experience. After being seated by the host, we were left sitting for quite a prolonged period of time without any acknowledgement by our server. When she did finally deign to grace us with her presence and take our order, I thought things could only get better. Well, I was wrong....so very wrong. I noticed that people around us that had arrived long after us were being served their appetizers...and then entrees. And we were still sitting there...waiting....waiting..... Attempts to catch her eye were finally successful. On her approach, she said 'oh, you're still waiting!?!' Turns out, she had forgotten to place our orders with the kitchen. No apology, no excuse, no nothing. Still, I was optimistic that things would improve. Surely goodness, she would make an effort to salvage her tip with outstanding service from this point on, right? WRONG! No inquiry for additional beverages...no inquiry re. dessert.....no inquiry re. our enjoyment of our meal. Egads! Guess what....NO TIP!

And before you ask...I did explain why no tip. I didn't cut and run. I explained to the server and then to the manager on duty.

I strongly believe in tipping. I always have tipped. I tipped when I was making little more than minimum wage while working my way through school. And I continue to tip now that I am making a decent living. It takes a fair bit to have me hold back on a tip. I don't want to be that person. But be assured, I strongly believe that the tip is not a right. It has to be earned.

I have the utmost faith that all on my upcoming cruise will be fantastic! I am walking onto the Wonder wanting and hoping to add some extra $$ to those tip slips at the end of my vacation.

Let the flames start.....

 

[sandrakit]

So many people do not tip the workers at all ! The workers in my opinion are basically slaves . I totally agree that workers would make a decent wage if everyone tipped the suggested amount .

 

[GatorMomInNC]

I have been told that DCL makes up the difference in short tips for the crew except the head server as they get a pretty nice salary. If one of the tipped positions has several times (not sure how many times) they generally do not get their contact renewed. A crew member shared this with us several years ago and it was the reason he had moved to DCL from Holland America.

I think I had that server on my one and only HAL cruise last summer. ;-)

That is the only time I complained and requested another server. I was traveling with my DS and BIL who are seasoned cruisers and generally easygoing, but on the third day we all agreed we would rather have room service then go to the dining room with the server we had. Fortunately, we were able to switch when we talked to guest services...

 

[bumbershoot]

Yes, you go to guest services and have them removed. We removed ours for our Head Server. He was very shmoozy and a "used car salesman" type. That put us off right away. Then, as my DH took DD to the club check in during late seating, he came over and had a 5 minute conversation with our table mates in his/their native tongue. This was very uncomfortable and awkward for me as I had no idea what they were talking about and it was just all out rude, imo. Isn't it their job to make you feel welcome and comfortable?

OK...my MIL is from another country, and has never become fluent in English for some reason. (she also never taught her kids her language, so in their family there is no one that can communicate fully and thoroughly with each other...and the longer she's away from her home country the more she forgets of the nuances of that language...) She used to speak Korean in front of me, with anyone else who spoke it, and never stopped to include me. I GET that it's awkward and uncomfortable to not understand what's going on around you.


But...that's exactly the situation your tablemates were in, right? I assume they were fluent in English, but what a treat for them to get to speak their own language with someone other than their family for 5 minutes. And the server provided those 5 minutes
for them.

(You should also know that if you pay attention, it's TOTALLY obvious if people are talking about you...just in case that was a worry you had. I've been able to tell, by facial expressions and just how language was being used, what my then-boyfriend was talking about in Persian (I don't speak it), I can tell when my MIL is complaining about me even though I know maybe 10 words at this point of Korean, I can tell when she's praising me (rare) or when her friends or sisters when visiting are saying nice things about me (they like me). You can just sense it. It's weird. IF that was a concern, but you didn't get that feeling, they probably weren't doing that.)

I also hate the used car salesman type.

But I've started to notice that it's a sort of persona, almost an accent of sorts, that *some* people from other countries put on. I don't even know if they know that they are acting like a used car salesman.

While I don't diagree with your post I would find it extremely unprofessional to hear a CM complaining, especially within earshot of a passenger. I work in a hospital and wouldn't dare complain, whine , gripe, vent, whatever where a patient or family member could hear. We have a private lounge where we can shut the door and let it all out. I find it annoying even in places such as Best Buy, etc. i'm sure the CMs let it all out when they get to the crew bar.

FWIW on our second DCL cruise we walked past a full on, in public, argument between three CMs. It was a bit shocking!

And before you ask...I did explain why no tip. I didn't cut and run. I explained to the server and then to the manager on duty.

And you can do that even when tips are charged automatically.

 

[ocspartan]

The concept of automatic gratuities annoys me to no end! I pride myself on being a generous tipper - to wait staff, delivery persons, hairdressers - you name it. But not if the service is substandard or the person in question is rude or inappropriate. While I understand that many in the service industry count on tips in order to subsidize low wages, I DO NOT think that I should have to overlook poor service. On a recent vacation, I was in a high end restaurant where the server was consistently horrible throughout the entire dining experience. After being seated by the host, we were left sitting for quite a prolonged period of time without any acknowledgement by our server. When she did finally deign to grace us with her presence and take our order, I thought things could only get better. Well, I was wrong....so very wrong. I noticed that people around us that had arrived long after us were being served their appetizers...and then entrees. And we were still sitting there...waiting....waiting..... Attempts to catch her eye were finally successful. On her approach, she said 'oh, you're still waiting!?!' Turns out, she had forgotten to place our orders with the kitchen. No apology, no excuse, no nothing. Still, I was optimistic that things would improve. Surely goodness, she would make an effort to salvage her tip with outstanding service from this point on, right? WRONG! No inquiry for additional beverages...no inquiry re. dessert.....no inquiry re. our enjoyment of our meal. Egads! Guess what....NO TIP! And before you ask...I did explain why no tip. I didn't cut and run. I explained to the server and then to the manager on duty. I strongly believe in tipping. I always have tipped. I tipped when I was making little more than minimum wage while working my way through school. And I continue to tip now that I am making a decent living. It takes a fair bit to have me hold back on a tip. I don't want to be that person. But be assured, I strongly believe that the tip is not a right. It has to be earned. I have the utmost faith that all on my upcoming cruise will be fantastic! I am walking onto the Wonder wanting and hoping to add some extra $$ to those tip slips at the end of my vacation. Let the flames start.....

No flames here, tipping should be based on performance of services performed, bottom line, if some service is so inappropriate or underwhelming you should feel empowered to reduce or remove a tip... Now if your not tipping bc you disagree with tipping that's a totally different issue....

IMO I wouldn't think of the tip as automatic, as much as it is default... By this it implies if I do nothing this is what will be charged me. If it was automatic or guaranteed they would charge it up front and I'd have to go do something to get a refund... Unless it's changed, towards the end of the cruise they will drop off a paper that is like a worksheet where you can put in amounts for each of the roles, they have the suggested amounts.... This is where you can make adjustments up or down. His sheet is taken to guest services and they print out the tip slips

 

[lbgraves]

I'm curious where this figure is from and if it's true, how the line gets around the minimum wage.
It's often pointed out that the are foreign flagged to avoid US labor laws, if that's true then I would assume they are bound to the labor laws in the country where the are flagged. The Bahamas minimum wage is 4 dollars per hour.

It's as easy as waiters in the U.S. not getting paid minimum wage. You are told what the pay will be and you accept the job. If you don't want to work for that amount you don't take it.

Correct on the to seatings. I made that correction. You may be correct on the number of hours they sometimes work as well. I used the figure from the DCL website that says 70-84 hours.

I think DCL tries to make it look as nice as possible. This is what we have been told by several servers over the years.

I have been told that DCL makes up the difference in short tips for the crew except the head server as they get a pretty nice salary. ....

Definitely not what we have been told by CMs. In fact before the automatic tips were implemented one told us he didn't look forward to going back to the Med because the majority of guests didn't tip since it wasn't common in that area so his income was cut a great deal during that time.

 

[antlawn]

They get around the minimum wage, just like here in the U.S. No restaurants pay their servers min. wage. The biggest share of them here in the states make $2.50-$3.00 an hr. They rely on tips to make up the difference. And, you ARE taxed on tips, here.

 

[JohnDS]

They get around the minimum wage, just like here in the U.S. No restaurants pay their servers min. wage. The biggest share of them here in the states make $2.50-$3.00 an hr. They rely on tips to make up the difference. And, you ARE taxed on tips, here.

Here they aren't getting around it. Some states have alternate minimums for tipped positions. Other states do not. If they do not comply with the law, then they are breaking the law. In the Bahamas, there is no provision for this that I am aware of.

Eta, minimum wage for workers in the US making over 30 dollars in tips per month is $2.13 by federal law, however some states require higher wages. Alaska for instance has the same minimum for tipped and untipped. So you see, they aren't getting around the law.

 

[tinkerone]

IMO I wouldn't think of the tip as automatic, as much as it is default... By this it implies if I do nothing this is what will be charged me. If it was automatic or guaranteed they would charge it up front and I'd have to go do something to get a refund... Unless it's changed, towards the end of the cruise they will drop off a paper that is like a worksheet where you can put in amounts for each of the roles, they have the suggested amounts.... This is where you can make adjustments up or down. His sheet is taken to guest services and they print out the tip slips

they do charge it upfront and if you wish a refund you do have to go to guest services. there is no longer a work sheet to fill out, at least i haven't had one since the automatic tips started.
unless i'm not understanding what you mean.

 

[crisi]

They get around the minimum wage, just like here in the U.S. No restaurants pay their servers min. wage. The biggest share of them here in the states make $2.50-$3.00 an hr. They rely on tips to make up the difference. And, you ARE taxed on tips, here.

In the U.S., according to federal law, if tips do not equate to the minimum wage, the employer is to make up the difference.

They never do. But they ARE breaking employment law when they don't. Regardless of what state you are in, you are entitled to the federal minimum wage.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

It's as easy as waiters in the U.S. not getting paid minimum wage. You are told what the pay will be and you accept the job. If you don't want to work for that amount you don't take it.



I think DCL tries to make it look as nice as possible. This is what we have been told by several servers over the years.



Definitely not what we have been told by CMs. In fact before the automatic tips were implemented one told us he didn't look forward to going back to the Med because the majority of guests didn't tip since it wasn't common in that area so his income was cut a great deal during that time.

Our CM told us in Aug on our Med cruise that Med cruisers are very generous tippers. I doubted this especially after reading about tipping customs in Europe in Rick Steves' book.

 

[JohnDS]

Our CM told us in Aug on our Med cruise that Med cruisers are very generous tippers. I doubted this especially after reading about tipping customs in Europe in Rick Steves' book.

Many Europeans don't tip, it isn't the custom there. I was yelled at in Germany by a server who thought I was insulting him by leaving a tip.

 

[holula]

Many Europeans don't tip, it isn't the custom there. I was yelled at in Germany by a server who thought I was insulting him by leaving a tip.

And if Europeans do tip, it's only in the 10% region for a meal. Not the 18-20% like in the US. It's becoming more standard in the big cities (London, Paris, Rome etc) but smaller places still don't see a lot of tipping.

 

[CelinaB]

Many Europeans don't tip, it isn't the custom there. I was yelled at in Germany by a server who thought I was insulting him by leaving a tip.

Hi, European here

No, tipping is definitely not done here in the same way as in the US. The service is included in the price of the meal and if we would tip it's about rounding up to a more even sum, no counting percentages. This is also only done in restaurants, not in any other type of business (like salons or hotels). And you will not find a waiter in my part of Europe (Sweden) depending on tips to survive.

Even though I do not personally work in the restaurant business I think the reason why someone might be insulted by getting a tip around 18-20 % here is that I think the waiters consider themselves working for the restaurant rather than working for the diner. They will provide good service so that you will come back or recommend the restaurant to your friends. That way the restaurant will get more business and if your known to give good service you will get more shifts or even a bonus or a raise.

Please don't flame: As living in a country without a real tipping system I do not believe in tipping. I think staff should be paid enough by the company that employs them and should not have to depend on tips. I would rather pay more for my cruise or for my food at a restaurant to make sure the staff are paid a decent salary from the start. And from the reports I've read here about people withholding tips even though the service was good and others increasing the tips for mediocre service there does not seem to be a clear correlation between working hard and giving good service and getting paid more from the servers point of view.

Having said that, it's the system working in the US and it's the system DCL uses. Me not paying my servers what they need and deserve is never going to change that, the only one suffering is the server. So I pay it, and budget it and try to pretend that it's part of my cruise fare and DCL are paying their employees good wages in the first place


TL;DR: Am European, don't believe in tipping, tip anyway 'cause one person won't change the system.

 

[JohnDS]

Even though I do not personally work in the restaurant business I think the reason why someone might be insulted by getting a tip around 18-20 % here is that I think the waiters consider themselves working for the restaurant rather than working for the diner. They will provide good service so that you will come back or recommend the restaurant to your friends. That way the restaurant will get more business and if your known to give good service you will get more shifts or even a bonus or a raise.

Please don't flame: As living in a country without a real tipping system I do not believe in tipping. I think staff should be paid enough by the company that employs them and should not have to depend on tips. I would rather pay more for my cruise or for my food at a restaurant to make sure the staff are paid a decent salary from the start. And from the reports I've read here about people withholding tips even though the service was good and others increasing the tips for mediocre service there does not seem to be a clear correlation between working hard and giving good service and getting paid more from the servers point of view.

Having said that, it's the system working in the US and it's the system DCL uses. Me not paying my servers what they need and deserve is never going to change that, the only one suffering is the server. So I pay it, and budget it and try to pretend that it's part of my cruise fare and DCL are paying their employees good wages in the first place


TL;DR: Am European, don't believe in tipping, tip anyway 'cause one person won't change the system.

No flame from me, I don't believe in tipping and also feel that people should be payed a proper wage by the employer. Tipping as it "works" in the USA is a system that promotes poor or spotty service and has been shown to promote racism and class envy.

Your right that one person can't change the system, however I won't lay down and say it's a wonderful system because it's not. I also will never tip in advance before any service has been rendered because that isn't tipping either.

Service has to have been completed before a gratuity can be assessed. In a restaurant you tip at the end of the meal, in a bar you tip when you pay the check. At a hotel you tip when you leave the room. Why on a cruise would you suddenly tip 3 weeks before you arrive?

These cruises confuse the issue by insisting on calling it tipping yet the model they are using is really more like a service charge. The way they should deal with it if they really cared, would be to add the charge to the price of the cruise, pass the pay on to the workers, and allow people to tip if they so chose without mandating some arbitrary amount. The fact that they choose to continue the way they do tells me that they really don't care.

 

[dolphingirl47]

I'm inclined to think it's the other way around. in 2012 the auto gratuity thing was new. Maybe the Guest Relations people hadn't worked out how to handle removal of tips yet.

More recently, it's been reported that is not really an issue to remove them.

My experience was in late May last year.

Our CM told us in Aug on our Med cruise that Med cruisers are very generous tippers. I doubted this especially after reading about tipping customs in Europe in Rick Steves' book.

I think therein may lie the secret. I grew up in Germany were there is no tip culture at all. You may round up a little, but that is the extend of it. I now live in the UK and also tipping is a bit more common here, it is still fairly limited. However, when I am in the USA, I usually tip 20% and on a cruise I also tend to tip above the recommended amount. Part of this is because people automatically think because I am European, I will stiff them, I kind of feel morally obligated to prove them wrong.

Corinna

 

[cmhguy]

Hi, European here

No, tipping is definitely not done here in the same way as in the US. The service is included in the price of the meal and if we would tip it's about rounding up to a more even sum, no counting percentages. This is also only done in restaurants, not in any other type of business (like salons or hotels). And you will not find a waiter in my part of Europe (Sweden) depending on tips to survive.

Even though I do not personally work in the restaurant business I think the reason why someone might be insulted by getting a tip around 18-20 % here is that I think the waiters consider themselves working for the restaurant rather than working for the diner. They will provide good service so that you will come back or recommend the restaurant to your friends. That way the restaurant will get more business and if your known to give good service you will get more shifts or even a bonus or a raise.

Please don't flame: As living in a country without a real tipping system I do not believe in tipping. I think staff should be paid enough by the company that employs them and should not have to depend on tips. I would rather pay more for my cruise or for my food at a restaurant to make sure the staff are paid a decent salary from the start. And from the reports I've read here about people withholding tips even though the service was good and others increasing the tips for mediocre service there does not seem to be a clear correlation between working hard and giving good service and getting paid more from the servers point of view.

Having said that, it's the system working in the US and it's the system DCL uses. Me not paying my servers what they need and deserve is never going to change that, the only one suffering is the server. So I pay it, and budget it and try to pretend that it's part of my cruise fare and DCL are paying their employees good wages in the first place


TL;DR: Am European, don't believe in tipping, tip anyway 'cause one person won't change the system.

Thank you for sharing your comments, and I appreciated reading them. I struggle with our tipping system - I am a tipper and tip well, but that doesn't mean I like the system. It was refreshing to read another perspective on the matter.