Time for Disney to change the FP policy....

[tarrbear]

I feel stupid, I always adhere to my fast pass return times. Sometimes rushing to not be late, hm. I just assumed this is what you were suppose to do, get a pass, reserve a time, ride the ride. I did not realize it was an open window. Being completely serious. I guess I am too regimented (sp?) in my planning.

Why have a return time listed at all? I guess they have to break up the crowd somehow. I did not read the whole thread just the first and last couple pages, made very little sense, but I am sure I got the jist.

Don't feel stupid, it isn't exactly a widely known fact that anytime after the return time is acceptable to return, the printed end time seems more of a "recommendation to as you said, break up the crowd.

 

[Cafeen]

yes.

and actually I was wrong about 300 late-FP-carrying Brazilians unduly effecting one's wait time if the FP queue was empty. it actually only effects one's wait time unduly if the stand by queue empties...and that never happens so it is irrelevant.

It's all about perspective really. If I get in a stand by queue and the wait says 10 minutes, I expect to wait 10 minutes. If 300 late FPers show up, I will now wait 60 minutes.

Even though the wait time was actually always 60 minutes....if people bellyache about that I totally understand why. It feels like you got screwed, even if - like me - you completely understand how the system works and use late FPs also.

On the other thread where we got into a bit of a side conversation with regards to improving FPs specifically for larger tour groups, I did some calculations with general capacity numbers, moreso to show the difference between 1 person and 30 people not being in an attraction line (were discussing limiting FPs per person) and how little it actually was. The flip side of this is that it's pretty much shown how relatively little 300 people actually effect a line.

For instance, Dumbo is considered one of the lowest riders/hour ride, roughly 768 adults per hour can ride it (1.5 min ride cycle, estimated 1 minute load/unload, 16 vehicles, 2 adults per vehicle). 300 people would increase your wait in Dumbo (which isn't a FP ride anway) by roughly 25 minutes. It is a good chunk for sure, but this is an extreme case.

On the other end of the extreme is Haunted Mansion. A published capacity of 3200 riders per hour. On this side of the equation, those 300 people jumping in front of you increase your wait by about 5-6 minutes.

Now, I'm not debating anything said, just wanted to put some perspective into the effect that numbers have on lines. (Of course, this is assuming high efficiency and doesn't take into account 300 screaming kids in front of you ) So while you do understand the basic math behind it, the numbers are far less than most people imagine.

 

[Lou Holtz]

There are two schools of thought on this subject. One that supports a lax fastpass policy and sees the bigger picture of how the lines work and flow. And then there's the other side who don't understand math.

 

[hookedonears]

There are two schools of thought on this subject. One that supports a lax fastpass policy and sees the bigger picture of how the lines work and flow. And then there's the other side who don't understand math.

What you don't understand is that this whole thing has nothing to do with the numbers of people standing in the FP lines. It's the faces of the people standing in those lines. Whose faces should they be? The faces of those who follow Disney’s suggested guidelines, or those who bend the rules that aren't convenient to them.

 

[smidgy]

If those people had shown up at the end of their time period, they still would have done the EXACT same thing to the line that you witnessed, but you wouldn't have been there to witness it. However, the line would have been the same distance back because the same clump of people came through...you just wouldn't have known why. An hour and a half after the group in front of you went through, no one knew what happened b/c they didn't witness it.



If you had gotten stuck somewhere else, and had wanted to use your now-too-late FP, you would want an exception, so don't be too quick to say that others cannot use them late.

This isn't a FP issue, it's a Big Tour Group issue.

Think of Fastpass as an invisible line. They pulled their FP before you. They were in line before you.

They did not come back at their specified time. That's the same as someone waiting at the entrance to a queue, allowing people to pass in front of them. In this case, the BTG let people "pass them" for two hours- resulting in a SHORTER wait for all those people who pulled FP returns from 10:30-2:00

They "stopped letting people past them" shortly before your FP return window.

Either way they would have been in front of you in line.

well now, I was going to quote bumber and then say something like this, but you did it for me... well said(probably better than I would've, I tend to ramble)

 

[nytimez]

Yes, but it is a false logic due to the space/time continuum. Let's say that there is ALWAYS a wreck on the highway. Unless you can predict when the wreck will occur, leaving earlier doesn't necessarily help you. If you leave 15 minutes early to give yourself extra time, you might be placing yourself IN the wreck that you otherwise would have been behind had you left at your normal time. Or you might not be IN the wreck, but you might be directly behind it with no hope of taking an alternate route to avoid a traffic jam. And if you left at your normal time, you might have had the benefit of a traffic report that warned you to take an alternate route.

So, to beat the system, you leave even EARLIER. But now you might be placing yourself in the path of another wreck that you would have avoided had you left later. And so on. At some point, you can plan ahead for so many contingencies that you leave ridiculously early. And if none of those contingencies occur, you get to work several hours early. And I would fire this person for poor judgment and poor time management. I'd rather have a punctual employee who is late on occassion due to a few unforseeable and unavoidable circumstances.

Right. At some point, you'd need to just move into your workplace to ensure you're always there on time.

Bringing this back to FP, if you follow the logic used by some posters on this thread, you should get your FP and immediately stand at the entrance to the FP queue -- just to make sure you don't miss you entrance window.

 

[nytimez]

What you don't understand is that this whole thing has nothing to do with the numbers of people standing in the FP lines. It's the faces of the people standing in those lines. Whose faces should they be? The faces of those who follow Disney’s suggested guidelines, or those who bend the rules that aren't convenient to them.

Neither. They're actually the faces of the people who got there ahead of you. And that just drives you nuts, doesn't it?

Seems to me some folks are better off staying home.

 

[Lou Holtz]

What you don't understand is that this whole thing has nothing to do with the numbers of people standing in the FP lines. It's the faces of the people standing in those lines. Whose faces should they be? The faces of those who follow Disney’s suggested guidelines, or those who bend the rules that aren't convenient to them.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You're the one twisting the rules in your mind into an argument that is convenient for your own grossly misplaced, insufferably annoying self righteousness on this issue.

 

[disneymom0104]

What you don't understand is that this whole thing has nothing to do with the numbers of people standing in the FP lines. It's the faces of the people standing in those lines. Whose faces should they be? The faces of those who follow Disney’s suggested guidelines, or those who bend the rules that aren't convenient to them.

This just made me laugh out loud- because using FP late is not bending any rule what-so-ever. The first time I learned FP could be used late was by a CM in MK- in front of BTMRR. In fact- that CM was yelling it out to the crowd because the ride was down at that moment. I asked if they would know later that my FP was from the time that the ride was down and he told me that they accept all FP after the start of the return window, all day, every day, so no, it wouldn't matter at what point the ride was down. I also heard this from another CM in front of Test Track on the same visit. It is NOT enforced. It is NOT a rule- no matter how you look at it. If you would like to use your FP during your window- great! Don't use them late. But nobody is bending or breaking any rule by doing so.

 

[larryz]

IMHO, you're free to restrict your use of FPs to the return window printed upon them.

If you'd like to jump in front of a tour group of 100+ visitors railing about how the policy is "unfair," feel free to do so.

But I suggest you don't stand on your soapbox in the queue -- you'll be run over by the tour group on their way to the ride.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I really don't mind the current FP policy, but I wouldn't mind a change. I hate the mad dash to get your FP's for the rides that you want. I would kinda like to see the FP's machines be removed from the parks and moved to the resorts, you pop in your card and pick a park, and then pick some FP's. I think this would add a reason to stay on property. Anyway, I think FP's is a good idea, but I think Disney can improve it.

http://www.insidethemagic.net/2011/02/disney-announces-nextgen-theme-park-technology-to-include-ride-reservations-from-home-advance-hotel-check-in/

Disney is developing a new system to plan your vacation from home. They will even send you your room keys ahead of time and you can get Fastpasses from home.

I'm not sure I like this as it takes too much advance planning. I wonder if a lot of FP's will be unused or if they will accept late FP's.

 

[smidgy]

I think the problem is that the tour groups are so large that they can't all possibly have the same FP window. When they come back together they are not all using their correct time.

Maybe WDW could cap the number of expired FP they let in at any one time. That would let everyone have the benefit of using expired FP without letting the length of the FP line get too long.

IMHO, they should only allow one person to get 10 fp at a time. or 15, tops. then, specifically for tour groups, only allow 10-15 int he FP line at a time, then X amount of "other" guests, then 110-15 of the tour group. etc.

( wouldn't matter, tho, the "tour group" group behind you would just push their way through anyway. and the CMs would do nothing to stop it.)
'I wouldn't have a problem in the FP line, if we were asked to wait for a tour group of 15 to go ahead. the same happened FOR us, when we were on the Keys to the Kingdom Tour. we rode a couple rides, and went right to the front. ... let 15 go.. THEN. let 20 regular guests go.. alternate, etc. and after that.. NO LINE CUTTING!!!
(and then we'll all go see the fairy princess together...)

 

[4HOLIDAYS]

There was a thread about the problem with these huge tour groups just the other day and what the op stated was what was happening to many. I see the problem as one with the groups and sizes ,not the FP window.

 

[smidgy]

Those of us who were there last week saw these groups. I guess that's our point. I was watching three Brazilian group leader each holding a handful of passes which were about three inches thick. Each had a CM helping him get the fast passes, (mostly to get them through faster) and as I watched, the time of the fast pass return kept getting later and later. They were pulling out hundreds of fast passes at a time and tying up three of the fast pass terminals. I asked the one CM based on the length of the FP line, what time would the fast passes be by the end of the line. He looked directly at the tour group leaders, and said, it could probably be late afternoon (at that point, the FP return was 10:45ish), and he said each of them is pulling hundreds of fast passes. It would probably be after at least 2. As someone suggested, it's not a fast pass problem as much as it is a large tour group problem. It never occurred to me that these fastpasses wouldn't be used within the window assigned. I guess it's like they say. You had to be there...

 

[KSDisneyDad]

As they use to say at the company I use to work for, there are no excuses for being late. Employees had their share of excuses. A train, A wreck, the traffic, the, the, the. Well, you should have left the house earlier to account for potential problems, and you should have planned better. No excuses. My daughter missed a flight the other day. The airline posted a delay in her flight of an hour. My daughter left the gate and went to get a bight to eat. She came back in time, though didn't realize that they had moved the flight time up by 15 minutes. The plane was loaded and they had shut the gate. She was out of luck. Poor planning by leaving the gate.

And thes relate to the FP discussion - how????

First, WDW is not work! We pay Disney to vacation there, not the other way around. Plus, at Disney I don't wear a tie, I don't sit in front of a computer, I don't have to make stressful decisions, I don't have to deal with employee or customer issues and I can drink an adult beverage or two if I so desire! If Disney allows me flexibility to return anytime after the start time, I will not stress myself out getting back within the published window. The above work analogy has absolutely positively no correlation with the FP discussion IMO. It was entertaining to read and I got a laugh out of the post though. Thanks!

The airplane example is close to a WDW example, but again has nothing to do with FP. What if you choose to wait to return to the ride after your FP window only to find out it broke down just minutes before you arrived. Too bad for you. You just missed out and will have to return another day. Has nothing to do with FP's, but you chose to wait and missed out. Darn the luck.

 

[hookedonears]

I have no idea what you're talking about. You're the one twisting the rules in your mind into an argument that is convenient for your own grossly misplaced, insufferably annoying self righteousness on this issue.

Your first sentence doesn't surprisem me.

 

[nytimez]

Your first sentence doesn't surprisem me.

What's a surprisem?

 

[Wadecool]

What's a surprisem?

I've been scouring my dictionary trying to figure that out too...

 

[Lou Holtz]

What's a surprisem?

Whatever it is, I'm sure it's very self righteous and condescending.

 

[mom2rtk]

I've been scouring my dictionary trying to figure that out too...

I'd like to help out....... but everything I come up with is stupid...... so you're on your own........