Time Cover - What do you think?

[Coconut36]

What's CIO? and moderate AP? I ask because I nursed for a short time, usually carried my kid but didn't find the stroller offensive, snuggled, didn't encourage co-sleeping but woke up many a night to find them there. Would that be moderate?

CIO is "cry it out". Letting the child cry without parents stepping in/doing anything (the child is fed/changed and then left to "cry it out" and fall asleep on their own). It's thought that it teaches the children how to self soothe. It's also a controversial topic in regards to age parents begin it (some as early as 2 or 3 months old) and there is a lot of debate regarding it..some feel it has to be done or a child can't sleep on their own/will not be independent..others feel they will eventually gain those abilities as they get older. Some have limits on how long they let them cry, some don't..etc.

Moderate AP would be moderate attachment parenting. I am assuming modified/less militant approaches to AP. I was more in this camp but I did not co sleep (baby slept on me/near me at nap time but when I slept they slept separately).

 

[Deb in IA]

Sorry, CIO is "cry it out", aka ignoring a child who is crying because of being put to bed alone. The term comes from the work of an author named Ferber, and doing it systematically and without waivering until the child just gives up is sometimes known as Ferberizing.
I guess moderate is most of us who have nursed for at least several months, baby-worn rather a lot, AND co-slept to at least some degree. When I think extreme, I think of people like Mayim Bialik. (google her name with parenting and you'll see an example of my definition of extreme.)

Actually, Dr. Ferber's method is not the same as "cry it out".

If you read about his program, he recommends putting the child to bed drowsy, but not entirely asleep, then going back to check on and re-assure the child at progressively longer intervals, until the child learns to make the transition from awake to sleep on his own. He does not ever say to ignore the child. In fact, the parent should be monitoring the child during the times between interventions.

CIO is "cry it out". Letting the child cry without parents stepping in/doing anything (the child is fed/changed and then left to "cry it out" and fall asleep on their own). It's thought that it teaches the children how to self soothe. It's also a controversial topic in regards to age parents begin it (some as early as 2 or 3 months old) and there is a lot of debate regarding it..some feel it has to be done or a child can't sleep on their own/will not be independent..others feel they will eventually gain those abilities as they get older. Some have limits on how long they let them cry, some don't..etc.

Moderate AP would be moderate attachment parenting. I am assuming modified/less militant approaches to AP. I was more in this camp but I did not co sleep (baby slept on me/near me at nap time but when I slept they slept separately).

Dr. Ferber says the child should be at least 5 months old before using his method.

 

[LORI522]

The mother and child were interviewed on the Today show this morning....


http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/ja...er-time-magazine-breastfeeding-180300346.html


The little boy acted like a young two year old (maybe younger). So, does he act this way because he has been treated like a baby? Or does the mother continue to breastfeed him because his behavior is so immature? Or his development completely unrelated to breastfeeding?

I also was surprised by how soft spoken the mother is in the interview. She looks so defiant on the Time cover. Maybe she is a good actress?

 

[castleview]

Sorry, CIO is "cry it out", aka ignoring a child who is crying because of being put to bed alone. The term comes from the work of an author named Ferber, and doing it systematically and without waivering until the child just gives up is sometimes known as Ferberizing.

I guess moderate is most of us who have nursed for at least several months, baby-worn rather a lot, AND co-slept to at least some degree. When I think extreme, I think of people like Mayim Bialik. (google her name with parenting and you'll see an example of my definition of extreme.)

Got it. I just assume these people on the cover are as extreme as Bialik. And we did the CIO (hey, it worked).

 

[Coconut36]

Actually, Dr. Ferber's method is not the same as "cry it out".

If you read about his program, he recommends putting the child to bed drowsy, but not entirely asleep, then going back to check on and re-assure the child at progressively longer intervals, until the child learns to make the transition from awake to sleep on his own. He does not ever say to ignore the child. In fact, the parent should be monitoring the child during the times between interventions.



Dr. Ferber says the child should be at least 5 months old before using his method.

But plenty of people believe it should be done prior to that and do so.

I believe there is also as you have pointed out a difference between cry it out and Feberizing.

 

[pigletgirl]

Up to a certain point, breastfeeding has all positive points. When you get to be 2.5,3, 4, 5, ect... when is enough is enough? Its no longer used for nutritional purposes. Sounds like its a crutch for mom and child.

 

[Coconut36]

The mother and child were interviewed on the Today show this morning....


http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/ja...er-time-magazine-breastfeeding-180300346.html


The little boy acted like a young two year old (maybe younger). So, does he act this way because he has been treated like a baby? Or does the mother continue to breastfeed him because his behavior is so immature? Or his development completely unrelated to breastfeeding?

I also was surprised by how soft spoken the mother is in the interview. She looks so defiant on the Time cover. Maybe she is a good actress?

OK what exactly is wrong in regards to the boys behavior? He is 3 not 12 and I don't see anything so crazy about it or anything that is not developmentally appropriate for a 3 almost 4 year old I guess. I see a very young child who sat very quietly for some time and then likely started get bored/restless towards the end (normal and developmentally appropriate for a child that young) but nothing that would make me question him developmentally.

 

[kidshop]

What do I think?

Geez, Time's circulation must really be hurting to put that on the cover.

Reminds me of the Vanity Fair cover this week with the four naked women in bed together. Makes it stand out from the Rag Mag offerings in the checkout aisle. I still didn't buy any though.

The photo is real? That mother really wants to put that photo out there of her son? Oh the poor kid. Middle School boys are gonna torture him one day. I'm sure Sigmund Freud would have had a field day with her case.

Breastfeeding an infant is fine. Even breastfeeding in public (as long as it is discreet) is fine too. But there is a time limit to those things. The longer you treat a child like a baby the longer it takes him/her to mature. Seems to me the one thing American society needs more of these days is maturity. Maybe then we wouldn't have so many stupid "reality" TV shows.

Hmm, do you think more kids are nursed long term or not nursed at all/short amount of time? I mean in relation to this lack of maturity.

I think the overwhelming majority are nursed very very little.

I will agree that putting this boy on the cover of a magazine is the real issue. I am against exploiting kids for profit in any sort of venue (reality show or blog). They cannot consent to the broadcasting of their lives I this fashion that will live on forever.

I do find it interesting that those who do try to be AP are often called out as trying to be superior to others who believe differently, and not accepting and trying to make others 'feel bad' about their choices....when they sure get their share of the disapproval in the real world don't they?

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Well no but if I'm going to see a mom with a teat hanging out I'd rather it be the hot mom that snapped back like this one as opposed to a frumpy disaster that has the sex appeal of prostate cancer, KWIM?

Not to mention that laughing icon should have indicated it was a joke. Man, still no sense of humor on the community board.

Let's make a note ladies, apparently you must be concerned about the amount of snappage you've done before you can breastfeed your child in public so males don't have that constant fantasy in their heads skip a beat with some reality.

Just too darned bad Junior, the girls aren't pre-baby pretty yet, have a pacifier.

Maybe there should be a person standing around for women to flash their breast to before daring to pull one of the bad boys out to feed a baby...oh...wait...the point of breast feeding isn't to entertain drooling perverted idiots, it's to actually nourish a child. Huh. My bad.

::

 

[LORI522]

OK what exactly is wrong in regards to the boys behavior? He is 3 not 12 and I don't see anything so crazy about it or anything that is not developmentally appropriate for a 3 almost 4 year old I guess. I see a very young child who sat very quietly for some time and then likely started get bored/restless towards the end (normal and developmentally appropriate for a child that young) but nothing that would make me question him developmentally.

My kids just turned 2 and 5, and I spend most of my day with various kids under the age of 5. I would have pegged him for a young two. He didn't misbehave at all, but he certainly didn't seem like a kid that's about to turn 4. IMO, he communicated like a 2 year old and was clingy like a two year old. I agree that getting bored/restless is completely appropriate for any preschooler. I don't think he is developmentally delayed but he appeared immature. Whereas on the Time cover, he appears to be physically mature for his age (which I think was intentional).

To be fair, he may have been camera shy or feeding off the nervousness of his mom.

 

[Coconut36]

My kids just turned 2 and 5, and I spend most of my day with various kids under the age of 5. I would have pegged him for a young two. He didn't misbehave at all, but he certainly didn't seem like a kid that's about to turn 4. IMO, he communicated like a 2 year old and was clingy like a two year old. I agree that getting bored/restless is completely appropriate for any preschooler. I don't think he is developmentally delayed but he appeared immature. Whereas on the Time cover, he appears to be physically mature for his age (which I think was intentional).

To be fair, he may have been camera shy or feeding off the nervousness of his mom.

I have kids too but I would not peg him in a similar manner at all. What exactly did he do that appeared immature? Seriously he did little more than sit there and then get a bit squirmy towards the end and I think he said "Mama" or something like that. How in the world would that "peg him" as a 2 year old. My 5 year old is a "cuddler". He is also a very very shy and introverted kid. He absolutely would have been sitting close to me or maybe hugged me because being in a situation where there are people he doesn't know around would be stressful for a shy kid like him.

It's all a matter of perception I guess but I fail to see what you are seeing at all and can't figure out how based on a few minutes where the kid did next to nothing aside from sit and cuddle up to his Mom you would peg him as "immature" or a "young 2".

 

[Hannathy]

My kids just turned 2 and 5, and I spend most of my day with various kids under the age of 5. I would have pegged him for a young two. He didn't misbehave at all, but he certainly didn't seem like a kid that's about to turn 4. IMO, he communicated like a 2 year old and was clingy like a two year old. I agree that getting bored/restless is completely appropriate for any preschooler. I don't think he is developmentally delayed but he appeared immature. Whereas on the Time cover, he appears to be physically mature for his age (which I think was intentional).

To be fair, he may have been camera shy or feeding off the nervousness of his mom.

I agree. He acted very immature. His mannerisms were more like a toddler than a 4 yr old. He moved and sat like a toddler not a preschooler.

 

[Coconut36]

I agree. He acted very immature. His mannerisms were more like a toddler than a 4 yr old. He moved and sat like a toddler not a preschooler.

Huh? I guess I don't get it at all. I am not sure how a preschooler sits as opposed to a toddler either.

 

[LORI522]

I have kids too but I would not peg him in a similar manner at all. What exactly did he do that appeared immature? Seriously he did little more than sit there and then get a bit squirmy towards the end and I think he said "Mama" or something like that. How in the world would that "peg him" as a 2 year old. My 5 year old is a "cuddler". He is also a very very shy and introverted kid. He absolutely would have been sitting close to me or maybe hugged me because being in a situation where there are people he doesn't know around would be stressful for a shy kid like him.

It's all a matter of perception I guess but I fail to see what you are seeing at all and can't figure out how based on a few minutes where the kid did next to nothing aside from sit and cuddle up to his Mom you would peg him as "immature" or a "young 2".

I already explained what I saw, and I acknowledged that he might be out of his element in my second post. BTW...my 5 year boy is also a cuddler and very shy, and he acted just like the kid on tv when he was 2. So, I guess I am basing my opinion on my experience with my own kids. And my gut reaction to seeing him on tv was "gee, he acts younger than 3". Just like my gut reaction to seeing him on the cover of Time was "that is inappropriate".

For the record, I subscribe to many of the theories of AP. But I don't think a healthy almost 4 year (who has access to proper nutrition and water) should be breastfeeding, any more than I think an almost 4 year needs a pacifier or a bottle.

 

[mhsjax]

I don't get it. So a 3 year old is too old to get nurishment from their own mother but it's fine to get nuishment from milk meant to go to a calf

NO you don't have to drink milk at all. I am very anti milk, (for nutritional value) If you like the taste fine. The poster said that a 3 years old get get all it's nutrition from food. You are the one that brought up cows milk. In fact my pediatrician, back in the 60's, saw no need what so ever for milk. My family hates it and none of us have ever had osteoporosis.

 

[LORI522]

I agree. He acted very immature. His mannerisms were more like a toddler than a 4 yr old. He moved and sat like a toddler not a preschooler.

Yes...his mannerisms/movements reminded me of a toddler.

 

[brookmey]

Finally got through the entire thread! It's been very interesting reading everyone's viewpoints and even more interesting that there's been no nastiness!

I am in agreement with the majority here. When I first saw the picture my jaw dropped. I could not believe a mom would be OK with exploiting her son like that. I was disgusted and thought it was very distasteful that the mom was promoting her beliefs and cause at the expense of her son. Like a PP pointed out, what if he decides to run for office someday and these photos are unearthed, humiliating him and possibly ruining his chances at election?

I was less disturbed by the length of time the mom BFs. I don't understand breastfeeding after the age of 2 and think that there is no good reason for it after the age of 2 other than comfort for the child and the mother. Even then, I think it should be done at naptimes or bedtimes, not whenever the child feels like it. If the child can ask for it, then it's time to stop.

My SIL breastfed her oldest, H, until she was 5. She had baby #2 when H was almost 5 and breastfed both of them, sometimes at the same time. To say that wasn't a weird sight is an understatement. She was an emotional wreck when H said she didn't want to do it anymore because the kids in her homeschool co-op teased her about being a baby. So the 5 year old decided on her own, not the mother. Who knows how long my SIL would've let it continue if my niece hadn't wanted to stop.

H didn't nurse during naptime or bedtime only, it was anytime during the day that she wanted it. I remember a few times when we were there for dinner and H (4 at the time) didn't want to eat what was served, so my SIL nursed her instead. There were even times after the baby was born when my SIL would ask H if she wanted some "loving time," which were their code words for nursing. Honestly, DH and I tried to be understanding and non-judgemental, but it was just plain weird and in my opinion, not normal. My SIL was definitely doing it for her benefit, not my niece's. Her 2nd daughter is 20 months and my SIL has told me that she does not plan to stop, no matter what the age, until it's the right time for both of them. Both of them?

There was a blurb on MSN last week or the week before about Salma Hayek being addicted to breastfeeding. It made me wonder if some mothers (not all) who BF past the age of 3 and with no limits to it (like at home only, during naptime/bedtime) could possibly be addicted. There are many other ways to cuddle with your child, comfort them and show love. Nursing preschoolers, IMO, is just not an age appropriate way to do that.

 

[mhsjax]

I'll go out on a limb and say that most moms who nurse long term don't call themselves supermom. I'll bet most are like me..you would never ever know it. The only people who knew was my dh by the end. And I only tell people when it comes up about how weird and gross it is, to stand up for it a little. I think it does surprise them b/c they know me and my dd and we are none of the stereotypes.

Let's face it, Americans are made uncomfortable by nursing even tiny babies. With all the lip service it is just not common. A few weeks is too much for some, a few years for others. You can't let other's hangups decide what is right for you.

My dd did stop on her own at 3 years 9 months. . She wasn't interested anymore.

Oh God, at that age my DD was reading on a first grade level that is disturbing to think that a child could achieve that and still be breast fed. I agree with others it is done for the mom because she can't let go, or if the mom says it is done for comfort, then they aren't doing that child any favors. I find comfort in oreos and choc candy, but I know that this shouldn't be used for comfort.

 

[Coconut36]

NO you don't have to drink milk at all. I am very anti milk, (for nutritional value) If you like the taste fine. The poster said that a 3 years old get get all it's nutrition from food. You are the one that brought up cows milk. In fact my pediatrician, back in the 60's, saw no need what so ever for milk. My family hates it and none of us have ever had osteoporosis.

I'm not a cows milk fan either. People tend to make this huge deal about it and treat it like this essential thing and kids can't grow without it. I don't get it. It is only ONE way to get calcium/Vit D but there are plenty of other non dairy sources that you can consume. For us milk is there if you want it..I like it in cereal and the boys like some now and then. They however get calcium from other non dairy sources as well. My Ped actually emphasized to us that milk is just one way to get those nutrients and that there are plenty of other ways and that milk is a non essential if your child doesn't want/like it.

 

[Coconut36]

I already explained what I saw, and I acknowledged that he might be out of his element in my second post. BTW...my 5 year boy is also a cuddler and very shy, and he acted just like the kid on tv when he was 2. So, I guess I am basing my opinion on my experience with my own kids. And my gut reaction to seeing him on tv was "gee, he acts younger than 3". Just like my gut reaction to seeing him on the cover of Time was "that is inappropriate".

For the record, I subscribe to many of the theories of AP. But I don't think a healthy almost 4 year (who has access to proper nutrition and water) should be breastfeeding, any more than I think an almost 4 year needs a pacifier or a bottle.

Weird..I don't see it myself nor do I get what mannerisms or way of sitting make someone seem a certain age at all. I just feel like you and the other poster are projecting things onto this kid.