The Disney Visa NIGHTMARE

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by mikeymars, Apr 17, 2003.

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  1. mikeymars

    mikeymars DIS Veteran

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    O.K., not to cram a normally positive board with ranting horror stories, but I CAN'T restrain myself this time. I HAVE to share my negative recent experience with this so-called "relationship management" program. Here goes:

    Saturday, Feb. 22: apply for new Disney/Bank One VISA through on-line application at Disney Club site (I'm a DVC member, but the Disney Club had an application link up first).

    Tuesday, March 18: receive declination letter from by Bank One, which is dated 3/4. Nowhere does the letter acknowledge I was applying for the Disney Platinum Visa Card. Notably, the first line says “Thank you for your interest in our (extra blank space) Visa Platinum credit card program.”

    It would appear that extra blank space is “residue” of a computer program designed to insert some vernacular (ergo, the marketing partners’ name) in front of the word “Visa.” However, Bank One declined to insert that name and “missed” the blank space, sending out a standard, plain vanilla declination letter (albeit a poorly proofread one which is obviously designed to name a sponsor/marketing affiliate).

    Isn't clear if that obvious omission is intentional. Even if it isn’t, it leaves the Bank One fulfillment of the VISA initiative looking a wee bit rushed and sloppy (doesn’t Disney review how marketing partners communicate to its clients?) If it was intentional, the result is to imply Disney doesn’t want its good name sullied by being associated with declinations, which if the case is transparent, cowardly and insulting.

    Wednesday, March 26: send certified mail return reciept letter complaining about this omission to Tosh Komime, head of Customer Relationship Management at Disney. Copy Mr. Andrew Mooney, President, DISNEY CONSUMER PRODUCTS WORLDWIDE, Mr. Steve Wadsworth, President, WALT DISNEY INTERNET GROUP, and BANK ONE Card Services.

    Tuesday, April 8: over a MONTH after being declined by Bank One, I receive a fancy direct mail promotion piece from them and Disney inviting me to APPLY for the card. Of course, this package immediately raised the issue of “why are these firms mocking me, by sending an invitation to apply when they’ve ALREADY turned me down?!?!”

    It only took a few seconds to answer that annoying question. Presumably, some unit at Disney provided Bank One with a file of existing Disney clientele (likely the obvious suspects such as members of the Disney Club, the Vacation Club, etc.) to use for this promotion. However, apparently no one at Bank One – which loves to present itself as one of the most sophisticated credit card marketers in the country, one that presumably “wrote the book” on database management – bothered to perform the basic, “direct mail 101” function of scrubbing the file to remove the names of Disney customers who had already applied, particularly those who had been turned down.

    Given the presumed agenda of this initiative is to deepen relationships with highly profitable customers (ERGO, DVC-ers LIKE ME), I was most confused about why this was allowed to happen. Does Disney Management care about how letters that go out with their signatures are managed? Or even more to the point, did anyone at either of the marketing partners ever bother to consider how a Disney customer would feel in the resulting scenario?

    Offended and unimpressed might be places to start.

    Thursday, April 10: send certified mail return reciept letter complaining about the above in polite but gory detail to Dinah Keefe, Vice President Disney Relationship Management. Copy Disney President Iger, as well as Retail President Mooney, On-Line Preesdient Wadsworth, CRM-"guru" Komime and Carter Warren, head of Card Services marketing at Bank One.

    Wednesday, April 16: receive an eight sentence long, anonymously authored and poorly written letter (dated April 11) from "The Disney Rewards Program," which appears to be an attempt to respond to the concerns I expressed in my letter to Komime three weeks earlier.

    The one-sentence response it provides to my concern -- which took Disney over two weeks to draft -- is as follows: “Due to the financial nature of a credit decline letter, it is not necessary to include the Disney name.”

    A review of that this morning by my council of the Federal Truth in Lending Act shows that to be a tangential statement of policy, NOT of law. Or stated differently, the Disney letter DID'NT answer my real question: why did Disney and Bank One decide that the so-called “financial nature” of a declination letter made it so “unnecessary” to include the Disney name?

    Their response also ignored another issue I raised, that being the typo in the decline letter I received, which “gave away’ the fact it was obviously designed to include the name of a marketing affiliate.

    All those omissions are noteworthy - and disappointing. They suggest neither Disney nor Bank One is choosing to be open with a long term, valuable Disney Customer about concerns he raised.

    Thursday, April 17: while drafting a response to the latest Disney missive, I happen to check these boards and find scores of posts referring to a phone number (888-338-2586) one can choose to check the status of their Disney Bank One VISA application.

    Out of curiosity, I call, and as requested punch in my social security number. Lo and behold, what comes back? The following: "“your application is UNDER REVIEW, you will be notified in writing in 7-10 days of our decision, this is the most CURRENT information regarding the status of your application.”

    Practially falling out of my chair (after all, my application was already DECLINED by Bank One over a month earlier, confirmed IN WRITING, but now their "MOST CURRENT" info is saying it is "UNDER REVIEW"). I subsequently reached an “advisor” and asked her to clarify my status. She fusses with her keyboard for about 30 seconds and says she “can't access the system right now because they’re updating the status, call back tomorrow."

    I can't wait to hear the story tomorrow WHEN I DO.

    More to come - STAY POSTED!!!!! This is FAR from over.
     
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  3. lilkitty819

    lilkitty819 Disney dreamer

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    Hi
    So sorry to hear about your decline...But to be honest you were turned down by Bank 1 Visa not Disney, so they need not put Disney's name on it...And also the decline could be because in the pass 4-5 months you could have changed jobs or moved. So they would give you a decline and put your app on hold and review it after you have been on your job or home for 6 monthes..So don't get your Mickey Ears all twisted over it, you'll live alot longer:wave:
     
  4. msdis

    msdis DIS Veteran

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    DH and I both have had our new cards for over a month and the other day we too got yet another application in the mail. We are on EVERYONE's list for applications and get tons of them, so I was not at all surprised when another showed up. We too were puzzled by the "platinum" aspect of the card. Did everyone get a platnium card?
    Sorry about your "turn down", we probably will next time, since ours has had a lot of use since it arrived.:rolleyes:
    I'm really surprised how many people have been turned down by this card. Is Bank 1 more strict than others or have they changed their formula for credit?
     
  5. CarolA

    CarolA <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/index.

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    Actually I would be MORE upset if Bank One was communicating with Disney regarding the status of my account. It really is none of Disney's business.

    That said, what you experienced with Bank One happens all the time with credit card companies. I was turned down by SEARS (I thought they would approve anyone!) When I called, they had no idea what had happened and it never shows that they even did an inquiry on my credit report. I really did not want a Sears card, so I just let it go (they were giving away a gift I wanted at the store if you signed up!) Sears now routinely sends me offerst to get credit even thought the last thing I bought as Sears is a 10 year old washer. Technology is NOT always our friend.
     
  6. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    mikeymars, what's the reason your willing to go to such lengths and expense for something like this. If you were turned down due to your credit report you're entitled to free copies of same and a review from the card company. Disney only sells their name to Bank One so that's where your gripe is. Nothing you've noted has convinced me that anything was done at all wrong or inappropriately. When one interacts with a customer in a negative way, the less said the better. Maybe they could have been more professional but that's about it. If your physician dismisses you you wil not (or should not) get a lengthy explanation, only a statement that you must go separate ways. Any further explanation simply invites strong feelings and the potential for argueing the statements. Just like my 16 y/o when he's awake, LOL
     
  7. HorizonsFan

    HorizonsFan DIS Veteran

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    We got a letter from Bank One after we got our cards saying that they had sent out some declination letters by mistake and to disregard it if we got one.
    The massive requests for this card are not being handled very well...
     
  8. CarolA

    CarolA <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/index.

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    You know I used to work for a company that routinely did to it's vendors what I think Disney has done to Bank One. OVERWHELMED them with volume.

    We would tell our vendors exactly what we had in terms of volume and they would say, NO PROBLEM (I mean who wants to turn down millions of dollars!) They would sign contracts and we would flip the switch and all H### would break loose because we just overwhelmed them.

    I have a feeling Disney said "we have MILLIONS of loyal customers" and all BankOne saw was the word millions and just figured they would make it work. And don't think it could not happen. Most of the companies in my case were fortune 500!
     
  9. KNWVIKING

    KNWVIKING DIS Veteran

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    I'm amazed by your tenacity and passion over a declined credit card. Don't understand it,but am amazed by it.

    I'm don't know if you or Bank 1 is right or wrong, but I doubt Disney has a say one way or the other. They're not the ones loaning the $$$ so I doubt they have even seen your application. If Bank 1 put Disney's name on your rejection notice it could make it falsely appear as if you were rejected by Disney,not Bank 1.

    It sounds as if this is far from a dead issue with you. Let us know the final outcome.
     
  10. mikeymars

    mikeymars DIS Veteran

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    Thanks for all the replies, which I will address in order:

    >>But to be honest you were turned down by Bank 1 Visa not Disney, so they need not put Disney's name on it..<<

    This is a co-branded marketing initiative. Take a look at your card - is there just ONE name on it? NO.

    So what? Well, I happen to manage research and development for the largest life insurance company in America. We've had a similar co-branded VISA card with First USA (a Bank One unit) for the last 12 years. We've done six different surveys with our clients, both those who were accepted for the card and those who were not (to get a sense of how the view the card relative to thier relationship with us). Trust me, the results show the same thing again and again: despite the fact the bank underwrites the credit (not us,) ALL those who apply for the card view BOTH parties as responsible for the overall management of initative.

    As a result, we (and EVERY other major firm I know of that has a similar card program) DOES put the name of BOTH parties on ALL communication regarding the card, INCLUDING decline letters.

    >>And also the decline could be because in the pass 4-5 months you could have changed jobs or moved. <<

    Sorry, no traction there: I've worked for the same firm since 1989. Lived in the house we OWN since 1992. My personal adult credit history goes back to 1983.

    >>I'm really surprised how many people have been turned down by this card. Is Bank 1 more strict than others or have they changed their formula for credit?<<

    Strict is an understatment: From my discussions with my peers in the industry, in these types of programs, Bank One turns down on average over 70% of those who apply.

    >>Actually I would be MORE upset if Bank One was communicating with Disney regarding the status of my account. It really is none of Disney's business<<

    I think you're missing the point. I NEVER asked Disney to discuss the "status" of my particular application with Bank One. I simply pointed out to them that I was NOT impressed with the way Bank One was managing the general program.

    >>what's the reason your willing to go to such lengths and expense for something like this.<<

    Because I care about the way Disney AND their marketing partners treat Disney customers.

    >>If you were turned down due to your credit report you're entitled to free copies of same and a review from the card company.<<

    I know; I didn't mention this in my original post, but the day I got the decline letter, I got a copy of the TransUnion credit report Bank One used (on line) and reviewed it. No major problems (and I KNOW how to review these reports, I've done it for years in my profession) and a relatively good overall credit score. I also sent a separate letter to Bank One the same day requesting a review. As of today, they have not responded.

    >>Disney only sells their name to Bank One so that's where your gripe is.<<

    That's incorrect, I've already discussed how the program works with a peer I know at Bank One. Disney don't sell anything to Bank One. Bank One gets lists from Disney, and they share the profits from the cards that are approved and used.

    My "gripe" again had to with the fact that the implementation of this plan was not supporting the strategy of improving relationships with profitable, long-term customers.

    >>Nothing you've noted has convinced me that anything was done at all wrong or inappropriately.<<

    You may want to revisit that opinion, for guess what was waiting for me when I retrurned home from work today? A FedEx overnight mail letter from Dinah Keefe at Disney (which was copied to Disney President Robert Iger AND Bank One Marketing Head Carter Warren). It was a wonderful letter from someone who is CLEARLY an intelligent, class act manager. And let's just say she didn't send it to disagree with me!!!!!
     
  11. crusader

    crusader calls the faithful to their knees

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    Which profits - merchant fees or interest?
     
  12. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    That's somantics. Disney supplies the lists and makes money. I'm sure there are some minor interactions, those Bank One people must come to WDW to have a few days of Mickey, errr meetings. Sure Disney's name goes on it and they have a stake in how thing are presented. I stand by my initial thought that nothing was done inappropriately. The only real issue is that you were turned down for a CC and didn't like how they did it. That's not to say it could not have been done better. I've been known to go after issues for the principal of them but I can't hold a candle to you. I certainly wouldn't put this much effort of my personal time into something so trivial and if I were to use my work time, I'd have plenty of personal time. Let us know when you get the cards, will you use them after all of this?
     
  13. mikeymars

    mikeymars DIS Veteran

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    >>I'm don't know if you or Bank 1 is right or wrong, but I doubt Disney has a say one way or the other. They're not the ones loaning the $$$ so I doubt they have even seen your application.<<

    Thanks for the response, but again, some are crossing wires here: you are referring to the issue of credit review and approval. NONE of my communications to Disney have debated the Bank One credit decision or asked them to get involved in it.

    The issue I HAVE been speaking to them about is how to apporpriately manage a "customer relationship building" marketing initiative. Specifically, the typos/omissions in Bank One letters and redundant promotional mailings are what I "complained" about, NOT the credit decision itself. I'm "debating" that SEPERATELY with Bank One.

    >>If Bank 1 put Disney's name on your rejection notice it could make it falsely appear as if you were rejected by Disney,not Bank 1.<<

    Read my original post. What I applied for was a Disney Platinum Visa Card from Bank One, NOT a ">>EXTRA BLANK SPACE<< Platinum Card Program.

    The top of the decline letter has the Bank One logo in Bold, large font, the Disney logo appears NOWHERE on the letter. The first sentence could readily read "Thank you for applying for our Disney Platinum Visa Card Program" without giving even the most simplistic and literal the sense Disney was somehow involved in the credit decision. The decline letters First USA (again, a Bank One unit) send out for my company's credit card program name our firm in that sentence, and we've NEVER heard from customers complaining that "we" were involved in turning them down for credit. People are just smarter than that.

    >>I have a feeling Disney said "we have MILLIONS of loyal customers" and all BankOne saw was the word millions and just figured they would make it work<<

    You may be onto something here. There's been buzz on other threads on these boards about Bank One getting something in the range of over 100,000 applications the first week or so of the program, which I know would overwhelm ANY credit fulfillment area.

    >>We got a letter from Bank One after we got our cards saying that they had sent out some declination letters by mistake and to disregard it if we got one.
    The massive requests for this card are not being handled very well...<<

    Bingo again, albeit I obviously haven't received any card, and have no evidence to suggest that the decline letter I got back in March was erroneous.

    >>It sounds as if this is far from a dead issue with you. Let us know the final outcome.<<

    Thanks, I will. I do now have that phone system evidence to the effect (possibly because of my letters to Bank One) that my application is back to "active review" status.

    My only concern there is I have yet to see ANY posts on any related thread from people who called that number, heard the "your application is under review" message who subsequently got a card. Those "I'm still waiting" posts just trail off with no closure, and several people have implied that "your application is under review" system message is just code for "your request is D.O.A."
     
  14. jctwizzer

    jctwizzer DIS Veteran

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    If you really think the amount of time you've put in writing various parties, not to mention the time put in describing the situation on these boards, is justified by your turn down, you may have too much time on your hands---sounds like you're going public with a grudge because you didn't get the attention you think you expected and/or deserved. If that's true, you've wasted your time, and ours! JMHO.:smooth:
     
  15. mikeymars

    mikeymars DIS Veteran

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    >>That's somantics.<<

    I think you meant "semantics."

    >>Disney supplies the lists and makes money. I'm sure there are some minor interactions, those Bank One people must come to WDW to have a few days of Mickey, errr meetings. Sure Disney's name goes on it and they have a stake in how thing are presented.<<

    We don't disagree here - Disney is in this to make a profit, a larger one than they were getting out of the Disney Club Program (which is why they are killing the latter). I don't have the contract details (those are proprietary and I'm not "after " them), but I know from my the experience of my company and peers that on average, these things bring in about $1-2 million of pure profit a year per every 200,000 cardholders. In Disney's case, it will be more, because the points people get will be redemeemed for items (such as trips to DIsney properties) that bring in even more related income.

    >>Which profits - merchant fees or interest?<<

    Again, I don't know, I wasn't after that; my peer at Bank One is four steps removed from the initiative and hence doesn't have every contractual tidbit at hand.

    >>I stand by my initial thought that nothing was done inappropriately.<<

    Fine, but the Disney VP who manages the program just sent me a letter that disagrees with that view (they are having Bank One fix the typo and explained that the promotional mailings are supposed to supress the names of people who have already applied). I'm not celebrating that, but respect the fact she took my input seriously enough to act on it.

    >> The only real issue is that you were turned down for a CC and didn't like how they did it.<<

    That's sounds like an attempt to diminish and minimize my position as "sour grapes." If the senior management I've been communicating with felt your way, my input would be viewed as a frivilous annoyance, but that's not the message I'm getting now. DIsney VPs don't send two page personal letters via Fedex every time a complaint letter comes in.

    >>That's not to say it could not have been done better. I've been known to go after issues for the principal of them but I can't hold a candle to you. I certainly wouldn't put this much effort of my personal time into something so trivial and if I were to use my work time, I'd have plenty of personal time.<<

    I think you grossly overestimate the time and energy it takes some of us to "fight city hall." Writing and sending two letters is a big deal? At work, I have to punch out 7-8 memos and scores of emails every day!!!!

    >>Let us know when you get the cards<<

    I think the question is still "if"!
     
  16. PamOKW

    PamOKW <font color=green>The two most important items for

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    They are most definetly sending "invites" to any name they have on any list. Several years ago I gave friends of ours a few nights at Vero. The reservation was in their name but with my address. A few days ago I got an application addressed to Mr. & Mrs. "Jones"....their name at my address. Unfortunately, Mr. Jones also passed away over a year ago. In this case, it's an application being sent to a dead man at a wrong address.

    I just realized something else, don't most people who rent out points have the renters name and their own address (as I did above)? I guess lots of applications will be going out with odd name/address combos.
     
  17. mikeymars

    mikeymars DIS Veteran

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    >>If you really think the amount of time you've put in writing various parties, not to mention the time put in describing the situation on these boards, is justified by your turn down, you may have too much time on your hands---sounds like you're going public with a grudge because you didn't get the attention you think you expected and/or deserved. If that's true, you've wasted your time, and ours! JMHO<<

    Sigh....more of the "sour grapes" stuff. What we smell here is what inevitably pops up on threads where someone dares to criticize the mouse in any way, shape or form: the "Disney can do no wrong" enforcers show up and personally attack the messenger. How dare we disrupt their private "magic". ;)
     
  18. roymccoy

    roymccoy Efficient Oxygen Exchanger<br><font color="#0080c0

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    Bank One is one of the worst (IMHO) credit card companies out there and I'm really surprised Disney partnered with them. They're one step above Household Finance or Providian in financial credit services. I wrote a post about this awhile back. I'm a mortgage broker and this has already hurt a couple of people who have came to me for home loans. Disney is marketing this thing as a Magic Kingdom Club Card or The DIsney Club replacement and it is not....it IS a credit card from a less than mid-range lender. Bank One does not use the typical credit scores or "FICO" scores that everyone knows about. They use their own internal credit scoring system that is unknown and is made up of 30 point system. They do not release what goes into the 30 points.
    Obviously, mickeymars, you didn't have a high enough score with their system but, you can take solace in the fact that it probably didn't have anyhing to do with how long you have had credit or how you have paid all of your bills.
    From what I understand, their scoring system knocks off points for having credit but not using it. They figure that you have enough and that you wouldn't use the line that they give you. Also, if you've ever even had ONE LATE on a revolving account (credit card) in the last 24 months, you will almost certainly get turned down.

    Somebody mentioned Sears as being not a tough card to get. Sears is one of the TOUGHEST department store credit cards to get and they will report you late quicker than anyone in the industry, too!

    The reason I am so against this Disney Rewards Card is the damage that can be done to peoples credit files. Apply for the card....get an inquiry. Get the card....get dinged because of new credit. Get a big limit...get dinged for having too much open credit. Use your big limit....get dinged for having balances to high to your limits. Miss a payment....get dinged for years. Apply for the card but don't get the card...FICO determines that you were probably turned down for it and dings your score. (This one has never been admitted by FICO, but I have seen it enough times to know that it is probably part of the FICO matrix.)

    I think that I would just leave well enough alone and forget about applying for the BankOne card. It's a scam, IMHO.


    Roy
     
  19. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    I can guarantee you that's not the case. I've been known to be very hard on Disney and do not hold them in awe. Those that know me (most on the DVC board like PamOKW) can vouch for the same. No personal attack, just questioning the amount of effort and lengths you've gone to over what I consider to be trivial stuff. It only happens to be Disney, it could just as easily be Marriott or GM. To be clear, I don't feel that being turned down for the credit card to be trivial. If you'd put all this effort to that issue, I wouldn't blame you. Maybe that's really your focus but you just didn't portray it in this thread. I do feel the wording, orientation, composition and responses you've posted about to be trivial. Still it's interesting reading as I'm always amazed when someone goes more overboard than I do at times. I still wonder, will you accept and use the credit card if they offer now it?

    Thanks for correcting my spelling, I'll punish my fingers later. As for how it's viewed, I sincerely doubt that Disney cares whether you personally were turned down or how it happened. What they likely care about is overall how Disney looks to the masses. This portion illustrates one of things I have liked about Disney over the years, they tend to be very personable and receptive. I don't doubt you did them a service and let them know about things they needed to correct, still it's seems like a lot of work and some unneeded expense as well as what comes across as something you've invested a lot of emotions into. That is your right and I applaud you for it. Good luck.
     
  20. Luv2Roam

    Luv2Roam Dexter: Takes Life. Seriously.

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    The more I read about Bank One the more I am glad I never got around to applying.
    Right away I thought it was odd. Like most, I get cc solictations daily via e-mail or in the mail. Usually all you have to do if you really wanted one is sign your name and that's it. (Which I think is too loose, but that is usually the way it's done.)
    With bank One, it was a full app, which I haven't see in years. I just never got around to sitting down and filling it out. And don't feel bad about it now.
    Compliments about Bank One are rare indeed. I read nothing but bad about them.
     
  21. honeymom

    honeymom <font color=blue>I just tried to connect the dots<

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    It sounds like you have a lot of experience with credit card marketing. You are right in that Disney/Bank One, could be doing a better job from the marketing (including dbase marketing) and public relations front.

    I had no trouble getting the card. I don't think that Disney/Bank One should change their standards to suit all of the Disney fans. However, I do think you are right in that they can be more upfront and sensitive in their declines. Plus, they should be purging their database. Why would they spend money marketing to declines?

    Even being a cardholder now - two things irk me.

    1) I would never be able to find the card site if I weren't provided with the web address in the info packet. I tried to search for it, came up with Bank One Visa - tried to enter info to find my account and it had no clue who I was.

    2) Although the card has offered some special discounts, they have yet to offer any specials that allow you to earn more than 1 reward dollar/$100 spent as they promised in their sign-up plea. Nor have they offered a chance for a reward dollar to be worth any more than a dollar as they also promised.
     
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