The DIS Dad's Club XII: Oh... There You Are Perry!

[theduck619]

anyone else cant sleep because they are leaving for wdw in 22 hours , 45 min.???

I can't sleep, so does that mean your are making a slight detour through Indy to pick me up

Good morning al

 

[cj9200]

My Scoutmasters Response. Thoughts? This is as close to "shut the f*ck up" as we get in Connecticut. Don't think it is going to have the effect that he desired...

All I can say is WOW. No advice but good luck dealing with this tool.

anyone else cant sleep because they are leaving for wdw in 22 hours , 45 min.???

Thanks for rubbing it in. Can't sleep again tonight. At least I got some work done inside the house. Starting moving stuff into the remodeled kitchen.

Wish I was up packing for a trip. You and your better half have a great time.

I can't sleep, so does that mean your are making a slight detour through Indy to pick me up

Good morning al

Same to you and all the dads out there. After Dave picks you up can you convince him to drive down to Miami to do the same for me?

 

[katoot]

Did some apartment hunting on Saturday. Only looked at two places, though. One was nice and big, but a bit out of our price range (although, manageable). The second one was slightly smaller than our current place (and our current place is a bit tiny). The wife's back in Pohang today to look at more. If she doesn't see one the likes, we'll most likely be going for the big one we saw on Saturday.

Moving day will be on the 15th of October and I'll be starting my new job around the middle of that next week.

Should be interesting.

 

[Bo Duke]

Ok First things first. I would like to make a motion that we create a DisDads Scout page so we can find these posts easier. I am in scouts also and some of this may become or is useful and I have become very busy with work and scouts that it would be easier. Just sayin'

My Scoutmasters Response. Thoughts? This is as close to "shut the f*ck up" as we get in Connecticut. Don't think it is going to have the effect that he desired...

Hi Chris --

You are asking that our boys behave at a higher standard because they are scouts. Uhh, Yeah, that is how scouts should be looked upon.OK, I agree with that objective. But, are current behaviors outside what is normal for 11-17 year old boys? Again maybe but they are scouts. You are expert in these areas, but my experience is that boys this age are not nice to each other. Then he is aware that things are happening and is saying that is just normal. Idiot. As we press the Scout Law, we are swimming against the current.And?? Isn't that the underlying foundation of Boy Scouts?

That doesn't mean that I am giving up. Yes it does. He said he was giving up by saying they are swimming against the current, basically saying just go with the flow. The trending flow hasn't looked very good to me and looks like too many in the past have pisssed in the stream. (sorry just my opinion) Just the opposite ... we press the Scout Law so that as boys mature it will be part of their make-up. And, maybe we help some boys mature earlier.



[District Trainer] ... have you met him? I doubt that he is the answer.well being you have and depending on your thoughts this could be of some leverage to you.


Let me know if you have other suggestions, observations, concerns. Yeah step up or step out.

Some people are just too hesitant to fight against the current that they don't see that the stream leads to the river, and the river to the lake. I just don't get it. And the fact that they apparently had a worse rep, when was this and who straightened it out? Sorry, Some people just rub me the wrong way and this guy would be one of them. I would just keep watching and suggesting to him. One of two things will happen. Either he will start to act just to get you off of his coat tails or maybe he will out you in a position that you have some say and can control what he can't. Of course there is the possibility that he may single your son out in which case your leverage would come in to use against him. Again just my opinion. Either way good luck with it.

 

[Bo Duke]

Just another thought. Does this scoutmaster have a son in the troop? If so maybe his son is one of the aggressors and scoutmaster dad thinks it is acceptable or maybe even funny. Especially since he didn't seem to like the fact you talked to someone over him.

 

[scott2997]

Ok First things first. I would like to make a motion that we create a DisDads Scout page so we can find these posts easier. I am in scouts also and some of this may become or is useful and I have become very busy with work and scouts that it would be easier. Just sayin'

There is already a DisDad's Scouting Thread....you can find it here....

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2801451

He posted these items there as well, but the discussion seems to be taking place on this thread.

Oh...and good morning Bo!

 

[Bo Duke]

Well there i go again talking before looking. Sorry. Should have known

 

[RodBelding]

Morning guys!

 

[Cinderella's Fella]

Can we still ride around in a minivan with fists full of bacon?

Paul, how long do you think you can hold a Fists Full Of Bacon?

 

[Bo Duke]

MORNING!!!

It is too early on a monday to tell if it is a good one yet.....

 

[Bo Duke]

It would probably depend on if this was the fist full of bacon....

 

[DisDadDoc]

Sorry to post this off the Scout thread, but I figured I'd try to wrap it up as much as I can.

Fortunately, I don't need to deal with this guy. I can easily move to another Troop or start a new one and I will. I was under the assumption this this was a nice guy who just was too overwhelmed to see what was going on. Now, I see that he sees what is going on, but is firmly in the "boys will be boys"/"make men of them" camp. Also, now that I look at his Assistant Scoutmasters in a new light, I can see that he chose them specifically to be ineffectual. He wants a "Lord of the Flies"-type troup to toughen the boys up.

I should add some context. He has two sons. The oldest is in college and I've never met him. The youngest was Senior Patrol Leader last year and is still around, a lovely and sweet young man who would never bully anyone....and is obviously gay.

Is it starting to become clear now? Because it sure is to me.

Thanks, again, for all your support and advice! A wise group of fathers here!

 

[afwdwfan]

Hey guys,

Stopher, keeping your job search and your FIL in our prayers. Hoping for the best for you and your family.

Hi guys. Feeling like I'm finally over my "Post Disney Depression" and am feeling up to posting again. And to think, it only took 3 months for the PDD to subside. Hope that ya'll will let me re-activate my membership.

Glad to see you back!

My Scoutmasters Response. Thoughts? This is as close to "shut the f*ck up" as we get in Connecticut. Don't think it is going to have the effect that he desired...

Last I checked, it is the job of parents and other "mature" adults in leadership positions to teach kids right and wrong and give them incentive to stand up against those so called "normal" actions, which are really nothing more than a mob mentality game of follow the leader. Just because it is "normal" for a 13 year old boy to be obnoxious, rude or a bully doesn't make it "right." It seems like these days, manners and responsibility for your own actions are almost a thing of the past. There's no repercussion for anything. How can you expect these boys to learn what is right and what is wrong if nobody wants to say anything to them?

Chris, I wouldn't worry about him thinking you're a p*ssy. It sounds to me like he needs to grow a pair and learn to stand up to a group of teenage kids.

This kind of stuff just really gets my blood boiling. There is no room for bullying in any circumstance. I was bullied in Jr. High and finally one night on a bus ride home from a basketball game, I flat out kicked the guys @$$. It ended the bullying, but up to that point, the coaches just kind of had that same attitude as this Scoutmaster. They knew what was going on, but never wanted to acknowledge it or do anything about it until I finally snapped and handled it myself... then they had to pull me off one of their star players. Until that point, I never wanted to fight back, because I was afraid of getting in trouble. I was never a kid that got in trouble in school, and that night is the only time in my life I've ever thrown a punch. I hate it for any other kid who has to deal with that kind of crap. Steve's story about his son really reminded me a lot of my experience. You try to be the bigger man and turn the other cheek, but a bully is looking for an easy target who doesn't want to fight back. It takes something negative happening to them to put an end to it.

 

[DisneyFed]

My Scoutmasters Response. Thoughts? This is as close to "shut the f*ck up" as we get in Connecticut. Don't think it is going to have the effect that he desired...

Hi Chris --

You are asking that our boys behave at a higher standard because they are scouts. OK, I agree with that objective. But, are current behaviors outside what is normal for 11-17 year old boys? You are expert in these areas, but my experience is that boys this age are not nice to each other. As we press the Scout Law, we are swimming against the current. Isn't that the underlying foundation of Boy Scouts?

That doesn't mean that I am giving up. Just the opposite ... we press the Scout Law so that as boys mature it will be part of their make-up. And, maybe we help some boys mature earlier.

But, we are dealing with natural behaviors. Cub Scout parents need to hear that there is nothing abnormal about the boys in Troop XXX. This troop should have a positive reputation because we clearly center around the Scout Law, and provide tons of opportunities for boys to practice it. Aim for the higher standard, but let's not allow negative talk because we aren't to that lofty, magical place.

Reputation still out there? Many Cub Scout parents haven't dealt with teenage boys yet, and don't know what's typical. Our response needs to be clear that Troop XXX boys are not abnormal. In fact, most of them are better than normal. Very few of them are "worse" than normal.
Physical acts that intimidate younger scouts: I absolutely need to know about this, and I need to address this immediately.
Verbal acts that intimidate younger scouts: I need to know some specifics, and we need to judge if it's talk beyond what's normal. Again ... I will continue working to have all the boys be nice. But, I don't think we should tolerate that Boy Scouts acting like normal boys gets chatted up around Avon as if Troop XXX is a bunch of bullies.
Ridicule, Harass, Humiliate: I need to know if any of these things happen outside what's normal teasing ... and certainly anything that is physical or threatening.

We now have new patrol alignment and new patrol leaders (actually, several repeating PLs which is a great thing). Patrol Leader training will be scheduled, with behavior as an important topic.

We will plan to frequently break into patrol sessions. I agree it's more productive.

[District Trainer] ... have you met him? I doubt that he is the answer.

Assistant Scoutmasters in the Patrol Advisor role ... we continue to define this role and ASMs are gradually embracing it. The continuity of some PLs with their Patrol Advisors may help move this along.

Let me know if you have other suggestions, observations, concerns.

//Rant Mode On//

Ok, I'm not going all the way back to quote from the beginning, just because I'm lazy and tired....

However, I will say that this is the **EXACT** reason I got OUT of scouting after Cub Scouts, and the **EXACT** reason I plan to discourage my son from joining because it apperas somethings never change.

When I was younger I got picked on a lot by other kids. Not sure why, and looking back at it, maybe I was just "different", but anyway, I expected this not to be the case with the Scouts. All the guys in the Troop were well respected (as far as kids that age go), always said the right things when adults were around, and always seemed nice.

It took a grand total of ONE camping trip for that fairy tale to come crashing down. I won't go into details, but I gutted it out, and then walked away and never went back.

A few years later, when I had made my own way and had become "respected" and "popular" enough in my own right (mainly as an athlete), I had one of the so-called "Premier Scouts" (who was on that trip) ask me why I had quit the scouts (this guy was an Eagle).

Unlike you guys up north (who do things "behind the back" as Chris says), this Southerner was very up front and direct with why. The guy was shocked, and then, mainly because by then I was much bigger than he was, admitted to me that they did things like this to "kids they didn't like" for "whatever" reason and that I wasn't the only one and I shouldn't feel bad...(I didn't).

He also told me that this type of behavior, while not openly Condoned or Encouraged by scout leaders (adult and youth alike), it was not exactly Discouraged either--and subsequently swept under the rug and "turned a blind eye to" with the onus being placed back on the victim should the kid or a parent complain... (things like "oh he's being dramatic", "oh they're just kids", "oh he needs a thicker skin", "oh they're just trying to make him better...etc. etc. etc.)

I heard the same thing from the Administration in reference to a friend of mine who was brutalized at Military School years later---but there was something else, they killed that guy internally--you could just tell, his eyes were "soulless" after that. My parents said the same thing about me after that trip, that I just wasn't "me".

It sounds like that culture may somewhat still exist based on this guy's response to you, and I applaud any of you guys who are involved for trying to change it. I hope it works out, I really do...but I will never expose my child to it.

Ok, sorry guys

//Rant mode Off//

anyone else cant sleep because they are leaving for wdw in 22 hours , 45 min.???

So are you going to let me know when you come through or what?

 

[DEA]

anyone else cant sleep because they are leaving for wdw in 22 hours , 45 min.???

I was not sleeping for much worse reasons.

Sorry to post this off the Scout thread, but I figured I'd try to wrap it up as much as I can.

Fortunately, I don't need to deal with this guy. I can easily move to another Troop or start a new one and I will. I was under the assumption this this was a nice guy who just was too overwhelmed to see what was going on. Now, I see that he sees what is going on, but is firmly in the "boys will be boys"/"make men of them" camp. Also, now that I look at his Assistant Scoutmasters in a new light, I can see that he chose them specifically to be ineffectual. He wants a "Lord of the Flies"-type troup to toughen the boys up.

I should add some context. He has two sons. The oldest is in college and I've never met him. The youngest was Senior Patrol Leader last year and is still around, a lovely and sweet young man who would never bully anyone....and is obviously gay.

Is it starting to become clear now? Because it sure is to me.

Thanks, again, for all your support and advice! A wise group of fathers here!

If I had a son, I would not him in a Scout troop where this sort of thing was condoned, and would be furious if it were actually actively encouraged by the "leadership". That would be criminal. Well, seems to me it should be, at least.

 

[DisDadDoc]

It sounds like that culture may somewhat still exist based on this guy's response to you, and I applaud any of you guys who are involved for trying to change it. I hope it works out, I really do...but I will never expose my child to it.

Thanks, Fed. And if my oldest, the one with autism had a ton of social/extracurricular opportunities available to him, I probably wouldn't bother. But one of the things that I need to worry about as he moves into adolescence is that austic children have an the inevitable decline in self esteem and feeling isolated and depressed. Having him part of a group with definite accomplishments that he can hang his hat on goes along way for him and can help gaurd against that. He really does enjoy talking about his scout accomplishments and because of his autism is generally unaware of the bullying going on around him. But, my middle child will be crossing over soon, and I need to get them both into a better environment. I'm not sure that my middle son will continue with scouts forever. He's a good athlete, an excellent student, a good artist, and a popular kid. Literally the skies the limit for this one, so like you, Fed, he may find other activities that he enjoys more. I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience, and you're doing the right thing protecting your son.

If I had a son, I would not him in a Scout troop where this sort of thing was condoned, and would be furious if it were actually actively encouraged by the "leadership". That would be criminal. Well, seems to me it should be, at least.

The really amazing thing is that this guy thinks he can put this in email. If something bad were to happen (like this summer where one kid pulled a knife on a younger scout), there's a paper trail from me to him and me to the council...Doesn't he think I'll save the emails?

Some great advice I got from my Grandfather, think twice before you say anything, think 5 times before you write anything down.

 

[DisneyFed]

Thanks, Fed. And if my oldest, the one with autism had a ton of social/extracurricular opportunities available to him, I probably wouldn't bother. But one of the things that I need to worry about as he moves into adolescence is that austic children have an the inevitable decline in self esteem and feeling isolated and depressed. Having him part of a group with definite accomplishments that he can hang his hat on goes along way for him and can help gaurd against that. He really does enjoy talking about his scout accomplishments and because of his autism is generally unaware of the bullying going on around him. But, my middle child will be crossing over soon, and I need to get them both into a better environment. I'm not sure that my middle son will continue with scouts forever. He's a good athlete, an excellent student, a good artist, and a popular kid. Literally the skies the limit for this one, so like you, Fed, he may find other activities that he enjoys more. I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience, and you're doing the right thing protecting your son.

Oh I understand, I think it's awesome for him. And even more awesome that you're "leading a charge" to change the culture...it's hard to find that now a days...(now if you can manage to use the phrases "Fix Bayonets" and/or "Jack Bauer would've killed every one of you blankety blanks by now"....you get bonus points)

 

[Bo Duke]

The really amazing thing is that this guy thinks he can put this in email. If something bad were to happen (like this summer where one kid pulled a knife on a younger scout) Did that get reported, because that would be at the least an automatic revocation of being allowed to carry any kind of knife for any scout event if he wasn't banned all together., there's a paper trail from me to him and me to the council...Doesn't he think I'll save the emails?

Some great advice I got from my Grandfather, think twice before you say anything, think 5 times before you write anything down.

Advice I have heard is to NEVER write anything down and if confronted DENY DENY DENY....

 

[DisDadDoc]

Did that get reported, because that would be at the least an automatic revocation of being allowed to carry any kind of knife for any scout event if he wasn't banned all together.,

Yes, I reported it, but there were conflicting stories, so it was brushed under the rug.

Anyone else remember from Eddie Murphy's Raw, the "Nope. Wasn't me." bit? I always think of that!

Can't embed this (at work), but I think this is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEovJYZsiDY

 

[GoofyIsAsGoofyDoes]

‘Morning all…


I always get a little behind around here on the weekends, but y’all had a lot to talk about this time around.

First off…
Stopher, we’re keeping you and your entire family in our thoughts through this difficult time. You are dealing with more then your fair share. I wish I could offer a solution to any one of these trials beyond a wish for resilience and an offer of empathy, but pitifully inadequate as they are, I do offer them.

Bullying…
I’ve read through the conversation and it does seem like y’all are already on the right track. My two cents would simply concur with most of the responses. I saw a lot of bullying in my youth and it scared my badly and permanently. It was condoned at the time (almost universally) and in a number of environments… tacitly encouraged (as a means toward “real” manhood). When I actually fought back, I was the one that got into trouble. Things seem little improved if you ask me. My boy is very lucky on two fronts. He did not inherit the bouts of depression that run in my family (thank you god) and he found a passion to focus on (specifically music) that puts him into a very good, well behaved, highly disciplined and almost tribe like group of other kids (at least at the school he attends). He’s surviving adolescence quit nicely so far.

Now then… let’s lighten this up a bit.

Can we still ride around in a minivan with fists full of bacon?

anyone else cant sleep because they are leaving for wdw in 22 hours , 45 min.???

Have a great trip!




(take me with you!!!)

Some great advice I got from my Grandfather, think twice before you say anything, think 5 times before you write anything down.

If doesn’t rank as a Man Law… it certainly should rank as a law for life in general. I’ll have to add it to my families “Rules of Life”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEovJYZsiDY