The Current Disneyland Annual Pass Program Has Been Cancelled

[montreid]

The reality is at 25%, Disney needs to manage capacity carefully and clearly the best way to manage this is elimination of the AP program. Having DLR closed for 10months already, it's relatively easy to cut that string and hit the reset button.

Now; Post COVID and post rampup---how would Disney really want DLR to be? Even at 100% hotel occupancy, Disney won't fill even 25%. It NEEDS the local hotels to fill.

I'm sure Disney has the spend data of the different levels of passes. It knows how often each pass type attends, spends (uses discount), and distribution of zip codes.

Without APs, the prospect of staying open to 12MN will probably be extremely low with a 9PM more common to allow of dinner crowd to get done and finish out the night. I do wonder how profitable those last 3 hours are for Disney in general.

I do anticipate local levers to be pulled as capacity ramps back up at 50%+ like the 3day SoCal Jan-April ticket. That fills up a lot of space the past years and was very popular for the occasional DLR visitor that does appear to spend a lot more. and a return of the flex pass when 75%+ capacity is allowed with a more restricted weekend capacity while keeping weekdays open in shoulder and low seasons.

Don't blame Disney for the move. It needs to optimize based on state restrictions. Sooner or later some form of local promotions and pass will return --just probably not in 2021.

 

[Kender]

It is not gospel. What anyone posts on these boards is rumor. We are not subject to the California Rules of Evidence or the Federal Rules of CIvil Procedure and Evidence on these boards. I was told this a long time ago. What I have posted has been stated before by others. The information is not insider. Check Disney's stock reports. Hotel guests drive revenue. Of course it is hearsay. But guess what the program is gone. THAT is a fact. Thank you for your time.

The only reason I said that I knew several cast members is because WonkaBoy wanted me to substantiate what I was saying in response to his posts.

You're saying what you say as if it's indisputable truth and that we should believe you because you say your friend told you. I agreed with WonkaKid that to make such statements as you have that your source needed to be stated. But just saying "your friend told you" is not proof of anything but hearsay. It does not give you credibility.

I'm done. You aren't seeing the issue. I'll be ignoring you from now on so I don't get in trouble continuing to respond to you.

 

[theluckyrabbit]

Reminder to everyone participating in this thread: This was said earlier and bears repeating. Please keep your posts respectful to others and non-argumentative. It is possible to disagree without being disrespectful or dismissive or rude. For those who already know, the Ignore feature does still work. For those who don't know, try using the Ignore feature -- it can make your DIS life more peaceful. No matter your opinion on APs and the late AP program, please remember that you are dealing with real people with real feelings. Let's try to focus on being careful and kind when posting. Thank you.
Now, back to the discussion...

 

[theluckyrabbit]

Who the heck is WonkaBoy? ;-).

Could he be your alter ego who roams the parks by night messing with BLAB? That might be why the photos and the scoring are always messed up. Just a theory...

 

[WonkaKid]

Could he be your alter ego who roams the parks by night messing with BLAB? That might be why the photos and the scoring are always messed up. Just a theory...

I don’t know. But I have friends making inquiries. ;-).

 

[Kender]

Could he be your alter ego who roams the parks by night messing with BLAB? That might be why the photos and the scoring are always messed up. Just a theory...

I think you might be on to something here ...

 

[theluckyrabbit]

... Side note: a lot of guidance and advice on this board has come from AP holders. Questions are answered, suggestions made, parks maps sent...

I've been wondering about this since the announcement. This board relies a lot on our local APs for up to the minute, on the ground reporting for much information, e.g. the holiday superthreads, parking and price hike information, etc. Our APs are an invaluable resource around here. If they cannot visit the parks as often, will we continue to have access to all the accurate information that we have come to rely on? Hmmmm...

 

[mom2rtk]

Gotcha. I'd always understood that AP pass numbers -- like specific attendance -- were considered proprietary and therefore confidential.


If that's right, I wonder, then, why APs weren't eliminated years ago. Whatever the case, it doesn't strike me as a one-or-the-other proposition; it's not do we keep APs or do we keep hotel guests? They've coexisted for years and with able leadership and direction they can continue to. Since Disney will offer memberships (whatever those turn out to be), I suspect -- and none of us know, perhaps not even Disney yet -- the offerings will be similar to APs. Not the same, of course. I also imagine they'll cost markedly more. For many of us, that's largely immaterial. We'll pay what they ask. I've joked to friends many times that, sure, we complain when AP prices increase. But we also continue to pay for them . It's like complaining about paying income tax. The IRS doesn't care if you complain... as long as you pay .


Absolutely they would. As we all know, some people are entitled, demanding and insist on $10,000 service for a $79.99 room. Businesses discount customer complaints daily. Not blatantly, of course, but behind the scenes of course they do. If businesses gave in to every customer demand, they wouldn't be able to function. Complaints will almost always be heard. But they're not always acted upon in the way a customer would like.

Ask your friend about DL's Magic File. It's a database of problematic guests. Some of them have entries that are pages long. These people will have minor issues and then demand five free passes or something in that vein. Disney does not grant these requests.


I'm not surprised. Larger park(s), larger draw. As I'm sure you know, people also tend to visit DW for a week or two versus DL, which, I suspect is four days, max (in ~ 95% of the cases).


Of course they do. Few, though, will decline to have their dream wedding or party at a Disney hotel because the parks are full/busy. They've been so for years and likely will be again. Again, I don't accept that memberships (née APs ;-)) and hotel stays can't coexist while revenues are still maximized.

Incidentally, there are approximately 1,850 rooms between the DL and DGC hotels. Presuming 3 people per room, that's 5,550 guests. DL and DCA couldn't hope to profit or even operate if they relied solely on Disney hotel guests, since that number -- 5,550 -- represents about ten percent of just DLs average daily attendance. In short, hotel guests are necessary but not sufficient.


If they've wanted to do it since the 80s, then they can't be very competent execs if it's taken them something like 40 years to finally get it done ;-).

All kidding and divergent opinions aside, I think we're all aware that big changes are coming. People will still go, crowds will still be heavy (once peace has been restored) and people will continue to stay at the hotels. Hopefully sometime in the next few months we can resume regular visits to the place that makes all of us happy.

Side note: a lot of guidance and advice on this board has come from AP holders. Questions are answered, suggestions made, parks maps sent. When people denigrate them/us (not you, @joseph821 but people in general over the past ~ 28 hours), it seems a touch ingracious. In my case, I know that I've helped dozens with specific requests and even the occasional birthday button mailed in advance.

Not to worry. No risk of a $79.99 hotel guest onsite at DLR. Not even close!

As for length of stay, well, or course WDW is going to be longer. There are 4 parks and it's so large it takes longer to "see it all". But we've stayed onsite at DLR a number of times, often for a full week (also the length of our typical WDW trip). But one of the reasons trips are shorter at DLR is because Disney wants it that way. They made that clear when they started limiting their tickets to 5 days.

 

[MillauFr]

Who the heck is WonkaBoy? ;-).

Gene Wilder

 

[WonkaKid]

Not to worry. No risk of a $79.99 hotel guest onsite at DLR. Not even close!

I meant in general. Not just at DL.

 

[cruisehopeful]

I will say one thing...putting an AP on automatic withdrawal was a very “out of sight, out of mind” situation for us. If we are put in a situation where we are paying up front for every visit, and certainly at regular day ticket prices, how much we actually spend will very obvious, and we will definitely go less. Maybe that is not a bad thing. And it’s certainly Disney’s goal: visitors who pay more and come less.

That has already happened to me. I started losing interest in DL towards the end of the summer. It was no longer a place that I was planning my next visit for. I spent up the rest of my gift card on shopdisney for gifts. I didn't even want anything else for myself. Why buy a dress, dooney or a spirit jersey if I don't even know if/when I'll be using it or how often I will use it. I have enough already.

I used to always book a nice meal or an experience and our visits were centered around that with anything else just time fillers. We didn't care much about rides or parades. We might go with the intent to go on one ride or see a parade, but we wouldn't plan beyond just doing the one thing. We also plan our DL days on short notice, such as a week or two out unless it's high demand time and I have to make a dining reservation further out. We won't be doing that anymore if we have to reserve our park days. Therefore, we will have many less days visiting, which equals needing a lot less Disney outfits, bags, etc. We will be spending MUCH less.

 

[Malela9]

I wonder how they will handle refunding monthly payment plan folks that put a large down payment on their passes? My friend did that since she had a lot of gift cards stored up. She just texted me freaking out that it won't get refunded to her since she was monthly...but she only had her AP for a few months. Yikes, these types of scenarios are going to be a headache for CMs!

Keep my money and use it as a downpayment for my "membership".

 

[Malela9]

Here is my last comment on this subject. ( I have a Premier AP right now. We are going to renew it at WDW.)
Disneyland is not creating "goodwill" with pass holders or locals. Universal Studios, Knott's Berry Farm, and Magic Mountain all are keeping AP programs. Knott's and Magic Mountain are extending their pass expiration date to next year. Not sure what Universal is going to do. I have a Premier AP at Universal Orlando and they just stopped and restarted my payments there. I think they are going to push a lot of people away. I LOVE DL, I have been an AP for 30 years, but I will not pay for a day pass.
I think DL brass has underestimated the AP culture of DL. If all they care about is having the highest spending people in the park, then I think attendance will drop way off. Many of my friends have dropped their DL AP. Think about all the free advertisement they get from the DL Youtubers. They won't be able to go into the park anymore either. I am not saying to restart the exact program, but if I am paying $1000, I do not want to only get 5 trips with no parking or discounts. I spent at least a minimum of $100 on each trip I went. Think long and hard about this Disneyland. We want to go, we understand the capacity limits, I even understand the reservations having taken 4 recent trips to WDW. But, if all the local parks are offering AP's to locals, rethink your program and give us some information ASAP. My husband is furious and willing to get my kids and myself a pass but refuses to go to DL.

 

[Dr. G]

But one of the reasons trips are shorter at DLR is because Disney wants it that way. They made that clear when they started limiting their tickets to 5 days.

I agree so much with this. I always thought it was weird when Disneyland limited passes to 5 days. Why don't they want people to stay longer and spend more money? The only thing I can think of is they were trying to limit park crowding? Or maybe they were worried about people selling partially used passes (but that's no longer an issue with photos etc)?

 

[mom2rtk]

I agree so much with this. I always thought it was weird when Disneyland limited passes to 5 days. Why don't they want people to stay longer and spend more money? The only thing I can think of is they were trying to limit park crowding? Or maybe they were worried about people selling partially used passes (but that's no longer an issue with photos etc)?

Correct. No longer an issue. So all I can assume is that they felt they could make more money turning over guests faster. Newer guests probably spend more money than those who have been there five days already. Which could be a similar consideration with the APs. They always needed them to fill in during slower times, but now that they will likely be limited on attendance for a while, they prefer to turn those spots over faster and maximize the "few" spots they have available to sell.

 

[montreid]

Disney simply ripped off the bandaid;

To compare DL to any other local park is insane. DL alone does 19M visitors which easily laps ALL of the theme parks combined.

There's 1M+ Socal passholders. Even if 75% don't renew into whatever new program there is; that will be more than outstripping close in capacity that DLR will have for 2021 and into 2022.

The math simply doesn't work. So Disney did the sensible thing for ALL of us.

I lament the lost ability to visit 10x+ for 2021. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out long term; but really -- let's just to opening and see what levers Disney is going to need to pull if capacities aren't met.

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney simply ripped off the bandaid;

To compare DL to any other local park is insane. DL alone does 19M visitors which easily laps ALL of the theme parks combined.

There's 1M+ Socal passholders. Even if 75% don't renew into whatever new program there is; that will be more than outstripping close in capacity that DLR will have for 2021 and into 2022.

The math simply doesn't work. So Disney did the sensible thing for ALL of us.

I lament the lost ability to visit 10x+ for 2021. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out long term; but really -- let's just to opening and see what levers Disney is going to need to pull if capacities aren't met.

Agreed. They really had no choice. The huge number of local passholders combined with the likely hard limits coming when they finally are allowed to open just were never going to add up.

 

[Dr. G]

I agree with these past couple comments on capacity. This removes the necessity of Disneyland having to make a million+ special concessions for people who would have had an active AP but been unable to use it due to capacity limits. Doing away with all of the APs for now removes SO many future headaches and disappointments for all concerned--Disney and guests.

We're coming to the realization that even when Disneyland does open, the capacity limits and previous comments/restrictions by the governor there may result in us not being allowed to come from out-of-state and attend even if we wanted to pay the admisssion price (which we do!) It could very well be geographically limited to So Cal for a time, in which case Disney would have had to deal with extending passes even longer for those out of the preferred region, if they hadn't canceled all APs.

Eliminating APs right now for a year or so and reintroducing something later just makes so much sense on so many levels, even though I'm personally disappointed.

I wish we knew what their reopening plans are. Not "when" since I know that's not within Disney's control. But it would be nice to know who and what and from where, if they know that (they may not yet). We now have to completely rethink our 2021 travel plans, as I'm sure many of you do too. Do we hold out for one trip with the family to Disneyland in 2021? We'll have our AP refund amounts for my wife and me, and we still have the four 5-day parkhoppers with Maxpass we bought for the adult kids and our grandkids. So one trip is an option if we are allowed. Or maybe we move the trip to Disney World (Parkhoppers are through GAT so can get refunds or apply to DW). Or maybe just go non-Disney in 2021. Yeah, 1st world problems. One of the hardest things for me with COVID has been all the uncertainty and changing landscape that makes it hard to plan on anything.

 

[Pachinko]

Wonkakid, your point about the hotels having limited rooms is spot on. Of course hotel guests spend more, but even with hotel rooms maxed, that’s still a small percentage of total park guests. Not enough to sustain the parks.

Some people seem to be suggesting that eliminating frequent local AP visitors will suddenly attract this entirely new crowd of customers to take their place. I don’t think so. DL is not a mostly locals park because AP holders shut out others. It’s because the park is not an international destination the way that WDW is. If you could choose one park to visit on your big expensive trip, which would you choose? DL\DCA, or WDW, where it’s cheaper and you have most of what’s in California, plus more than double that? Unless they start making major changes and building huge new additions to DL, it won’t be able to compete.

What worries me most about any new membership system is cost. Thus far, it seemed like the more expensive passes became, the more people showed up. Disney knows that it has not hit the ceiling for pricing yet. And it is to their advantage to get more money out of fewer people, not because smaller crowds are nicer for guests, but because smaller crowds mean needing fewer resources like staff. I could see them keeping a similar pass system but raising the cost *substantially*, like doubling the prices. Many would refuse to pay, but it doesn’t matter, because some people will pay, and they’ll need fewer customers if those customers are paying more. There is a cost benefit sweet spot where cost of business and revenue are optimized, and they must know that they could charge a lot more while offering the same experience. What do you think?

 

[BilboWaggins]

I'm sorry, but Disney basically gave a Big Middle Finger to all those who have waited patiently this past year. I know that I'm not alone in having looked forward to the opportunity to visit the parks once they re-open. A Refund of less than $100 for the 2 1/2 months remaining on my Flex Pass means nothing to me. It is offensive, and AP's are being punished for a situation, the pandemic, which is out of our control.

There are many ways this could have been dealt with better. They could have said that once the parks re-open, all Passholders would be allowed the Lesser of 2 Months validity or the time remaining on their passes. At the same time, they could announce whatever new system they intend to use as a replacement going forward.

This would have allowed their so-called "valued" AP's to get a visit or 2 in before deciding whether they wanted to get whatever new membership they are planning on implementing.

Universal is Damn smart. Ya know why? Every Single Disneyland AP is now an Unrestricted Free Agent. Disney could have created a bridge to their new program, while at the same time giving the most hardcore of their fan base, the FIX they've been waiting almost a year for. Many might have just decided to continue after the 2 month grace period, and Disney would have avoided what they have now. Which are likely many who are probably saying....."Well, we've gone a year without a visit to Disneyland, and now we have our money back, so perhaps we should wait a while longer, and spend money elsewhere."

And I keep coming back to the Free Agent thing. You don't simultaneously cut someone loose, very abruptly I might add, and then tell them how important they are (WERE) to you.