Testing refusal rates in your district

[Kbee]

Good grief. What an atrocious article to test on. From that same web link:

"Disgusted teachers and parents are defying the “gag order” and talking about the tests, anonymously, on blogs. The sixth-grade test has consistently come under fire, especially during Day 3 when an article entitled, “Nimbus Clouds: Mysterious, Ephemeral, and Now Indoors” from the Smithsonian Magazine appeared on one version of the test.

Here is a passage from the article:

As a result, the location of the cloud is an important aspect, as it is the setting for his creation and part of the artwork. In his favorite piece, Nimbus D’Aspremont, the architecture of the D’Aspremont-Lynden Castle in Rekem, Belgium, plays a significant role in the feel of the picture. “The contrast between the original castle and its former use as a military hospital and mental institution is still visible,” he writes. “You could say the spaces function as a plinth for the work.”

Did you read the whole article?
Do you know what the students were asked on the test? They picked out one small excerpt of the article, but failed to mention if the kids were tested on that specific part.
I don't know about you, but I am an avid reader and still find myself having to look up new words I'm unsure of. I encourage my own kids to read above their level and do the same. I know they can't look things up during the test, but I guess they could have been tested on a Dr. Seuss book to make everyone happy.
That article, on the whole, reads no different than many of the photo-copied ones my 6th grader brings home. Who knew, I guess our school just has higher standards than the rest of yours?

 

[Heidi K]

The refusal numbers aren't speculation. They are being painstakingly compiled, district by district. Those who are compiling the numbers will only report a figure if it comes from a first-hand, credible source, such as an administrator or teacher directly involved with the testing at his/her school. There may be slight variations in the end, but these numbers are reliable.

As for the 1.1 million number, it is obviously rounded, but is part of the public record that NYS has approximately that many 3rd through 8th graders. I'm not sure where you get the idea that these numbers are "speculation".

Do you find it interesting that these numbers are being provided, yet if you wanted to know the actual number of eligible students you would have to wait for ALL of the numbers to be reported. Too much speculation being used as fact to take any of these numbers seriously.

 

[undertheradar]

The refusal numbers aren't speculation. They are being painstakingly compiled, district by district. Those who are compiling the numbers will only report a figure if it comes from a first-hand, credible source, such as an administrator or teacher directly involved with the testing at his/her school. There may be slight variations in the end, but these numbers are reliable.

As for the 1.1 million number, it is obviously rounded, but is part of the public record that NYS has approximately that many 3rd through 8th graders. I'm not sure where you get the idea that these numbers are "speculation".

Wait, you want these numbers to be representative and then you state that they may come from a teacher involved? I didn't know that the tally for an entire school district would come from a teacher. Like I said, these numbers are speculation until final numbers are released sometime next Fall.

 

[undertheradar]

The refusal numbers aren't speculation. They are being painstakingly compiled, district by district. Those who are compiling the numbers will only report a figure if it comes from a first-hand, credible source, such as an administrator or teacher directly involved with the testing at his/her school. There may be slight variations in the end, but these numbers are reliable.

As for the 1.1 million number, it is obviously rounded, but is part of the public record that NYS has approximately that many 3rd through 8th graders. I'm not sure where you get the idea that these numbers are "speculation".

Who exactly is "painstakingly compiling" these numbers? What official educational entity is releasing these numbers?

 

[zoemurr]

My son is in 8th grade in NY but is in a HS Geometry class, along with about 30 other kids. This class is taught at his middle school. He said they don't have to take the NYS test for math, and neither do the kids that are in Algebra I. Somehow I missed this. Is this across the board, or just our school? I assume it is because they take the Regents?

 

[mom2rtk]

My son is in 8th grade in NY but is in a HS Geometry class, along with about 30 other kids. This class is taught at his middle school. He said they don't have to take the NYS test for math, and neither do the kids that are in Algebra I. Somehow I missed this. Is this across the board, or just our school? I assume it is because they take the Regents?

My daughter is in 8th grade Algebra I in Missouri. She has to take the High School "End of Course" exam.

 

[msjprincess]

My son is in 8th grade in NY but is in a HS Geometry class, along with about 30 other kids. This class is taught at his middle school. He said they don't have to take the NYS test for math, and neither do the kids that are in Algebra I. Somehow I missed this. Is this across the board, or just our school? I assume it is because they take the Regents?

I know in our school kids in Advanced Math don't have to take it. I thought all kids had to take the Regents now. My son isn't in Advanced Math but he is still taking the Regents.

 

[Heidi K]

This is from a document on the NY State ed dept web-site:
"Local Educational Agencies (LEAs) are now allowed to administer only the Regents Examination in Algebra I (Common Core) to these students, eliminating the need for ‘double-testing’ in grades 7 and 8. This provision would also apply to students in grades 7 and 8 who receive instruction in Geometry and who take the Regents Examination in Geometry."

So it sounds like your school can choose to skip the 8th grade math assessment for students who will take a June math Regents exam.

And yes, passing one math Regents exam is a requirement for high school graduation in NY. (Students must also pass 1 science, 2 social studies, and 1 English exam.)

 

[kimmar067]

....I thought that this was kind of interesting:

http://www.businessinsider.com/finland-education-school-2011-12

 

[zoemurr]

This is from a document on the NY State ed dept web-site:
"Local Educational Agencies (LEAs) are now allowed to administer only the Regents Examination in Algebra I (Common Core) to these students, eliminating the need for ‘double-testing’ in grades 7 and 8. This provision would also apply to students in grades 7 and 8 who receive instruction in Geometry and who take the Regents Examination in Geometry."

So it sounds like your school can choose to skip the 8th grade math assessment for students who will take a June math Regents exam.

And yes, passing one math Regents exam is a requirement for high school graduation in NY. (Students must also pass 1 science, 2 social studies, and 1 English exam.)

Ok, this is very good news for the kids. But isn't it bad news for the school? If districts with a lot of high performing kids now aren't taking the test, won't the data be a lot lower than other years? How does this give accurate information? Middle schoolers taking Alg 1 and Geometry count for about 1/4 of my son's class. That is pretty significant.

 

[aprilgail]

My son is in 8th grade in NY but is in a HS Geometry class, along with about 30 other kids. This class is taught at his middle school. He said they don't have to take the NYS test for math, and neither do the kids that are in Algebra I. Somehow I missed this. Is this across the board, or just our school? I assume it is because they take the Regents?

Last year they started having the kids taking the regents not take the state tests too. Prior to that was my daughters year and I refused the math test because she was already taking the regents which is a state test so why should she take two? So now not only do the kids taking advanced math not take the math state tests we also have over 1000 refusals already for the math testing!

 

[zoemurr]

Last year they started having the kids taking the regents not take the state tests too. Prior to that was my daughters year and I refused the math test because she was already taking the regents which is a state test so why should she take two? So now not only do the kids taking advanced math not take the math state tests we also have over 1000 refusals already for the math testing![/

Yes, he said he didn't take it last year either, but honestly I didn't remember that. Even without opt-outs, and we had many too, isn't taking the top 25% of math scores out of the equation going to make a huge difference? Of course the scores are going down. Just crazy..

 

[Tinijocaro]

Ok, this is very good news for the kids. But isn't it bad news for the school? If districts with a lot of high performing kids now aren't taking the test, won't the data be a lot lower than other years? How does this give accurate information? Middle schoolers taking Alg 1 and Geometry count for about 1/4 of my son's class. That is pretty significant.

High performing kids actually harms the teacher's evaluation since these kids tend to show very little growth. They are already at the top. A low performer or average student has the potential to show growth, which is what the state is looking for. This is known as the VAM score or Value Added Model.

 

[Tinijocaro]

....I thought that this was kind of interesting:

http://www.businessinsider.com/finland-education-school-2011-12

You know, I've read this about Finland before. It sounds wonderful. Why does our government choose to model our education system like China, rather than Finland?

 

[ilovefh]

Last year they started having the kids taking the regents not take the state tests too. Prior to that was my daughters year and I refused the math test because she was already taking the regents which is a state test so why should she take two? So now not only do the kids taking advanced math not take the math state tests we also have over 1000 refusals already for the math testing!

I don't know how NY does things, but this is what happened to us in FL. Our county did not require those taking Alg 1 or Geometry to take the 8th grade FCAT because they took the EOC for their respective courses. Our pass rates on the FCAT went way down. The county next to us had all students in 8th grade take the FCAT and their rates were much higher. I don't care except that they then tried to compare us. At our annual back to school math meeting the county presented us with a graph comparing us to surrounding counties. Wouldn't you know in other grades our pass rate was comparable but was much lower in 8th grade. Of course they neglected to state the difference between the 8th grade samples and just pointed out how low ours were. Since I am not one to keep my mouth shut I stood up and added that information. We figured out that at our school that if we added in those that took the EOC to our data our pass rate actually went up from the previous year.

 

[zoemurr]

High performing kids actually harms the teacher's evaluation since these kids tend to show very little growth. They are already at the top. A low performer or average student has the potential to show growth, which is what the state is looking for. This is known as the VAM score or Value Added Model.

That makes sense, but if having these kids not take the NYS test has only been the last few years, how are they comparing the new data to the old in a reliable way? I realize they still can child by child, but doesn't this pretty much make the stats for the entire school invalid compared to previous years?

 

[undertheradar]

So the supporters of fighting the test couldn't provide what educational entity was providing the opt-out numbers NPR was using? Must be due to them coming from teachers and administrators who are advocates against the tests. The numbers used in the NPR report are provided by U2C, United to Counter the Core. Interesting how the report has already been corrected to address the fact that they listed the wrong test for opt-outs. The original report claimed these numbers were against PARCC, when the reality is they are for ELA. Why not just be forthcoming and provide the simple facts such as these not being official numbers?

 

[Tinijocaro]

That makes sense, but if having these kids not take the NYS test has only been the last few years, how are they comparing the new data to the old in a reliable way? I realize they still can child by child, but doesn't this pretty much make the stats for the entire school invalid compared to previous years?

And there is the problem-it's not valid. And that is just one example of why it's not valid.

 

[kimmar067]

You know, I've read this about Finland before. It sounds wonderful. Why does our government choose to model our education system like China, rather than Finland?

....I don't know but I certainly agree about all the BS paperwork that we must submit.....that's half the problem. This year, more than ever, I feel like a statistician...

 

[Kbee]

And yes, passing one math Regents exam is a requirement for high school graduation in NY. (Students must also pass 1 science, 2 social studies, and 1 English exam.)

They are also required to pass 1 foreign language Regents exam too