teacher question

[ez]

he goes into the self contained room for reading for 2 hours. That was something they pushed for last year and I agreed to. (This is how I am really seeing that the curriculum is just a rehash of things he already knew). Someone comes in the gen ed room to help several kids with math including him but they want him in the other room for that as well.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

question about least restrictive environment. What do you consider to be success for a child with a disability in a mainstream class? I feel that my son makes more progress in a gen ed room (no aids) with access to full curriculum than in the ese room where expectations are so low, but am battling over him not being on grade level. First meeting with teacher this year she said, first thing, I would like your version of what happened at his last iep meeting because I heard that no one wanted him in my class (gen ed).

To me a successful situation is where they are able to work up to their full potential in the environment they are in. Sometimes being on grade level is just not going to happen no matter what you do. Is your son capable of being on grade level? If so and he's not doing in in a traditional classroom with no in class support or being pulled to a resource room then this solution is not working and you should look at other options.

I have 3 kids with IEP's. Two for learning disabilities and my oldest is classified as multiply disabled as he is cognitively impaired among other things. He is past the point where he can be mainstreamed, even with in class support. My next is DD14 who needs in class support and benefits from a smaller classroom but we struggle with social issues because if we put her in an academic class where she will thrive, she is miserable because she is not with her friends at all. So we take her hardest areas (Reading/English) and put her in small class and she is in a regular class for science, social studies and math with in-class support aides that help several children. My youngest is in typical classrooms with in class support except for math where he goes to small class.

It certainly has been a struggle through the years to find the best balance for each of them and just when you think you have it things change like changing classrooms for different subjects and you feel like you're back at square 1. lolMy kids are in 11th, 9th and 7th grades at this point so we pretty much have it nailed right now

 

[ez]

He would not be able to be on grade level no, because of his comprehension issues. He has a lot of splinter skills and might do great at some math and not be able to get other parts. Same with reading as things get more complicated with comprehension and main idea he will try and get some of it right but never all. but in ese class he wouldnt be trying any of that there would be so much that would be left out, that he might be able to have done. Also he takes great pride being in the gen ed room. It feels to me that he should be allowed in there just like any of the other kids. To move him to the other room for math would completely change his placement and he wouldnt be a mainstreamed kid anymore. 4th grade.

 

[ez]

Just to add, he was in an ese room for 4 years and it was a special needs daycare, kids bouncing off the walls no academics though there was supposed to be. At least in gen ed its....school

 

[Hrhpd]

it's going well

Great to hear. Were you able to get that IEP done and secure services?

 

[bsblady01]

Great to hear. Were you able to get that IEP done and secure services?

he has everything he needs to have success in first grade

 

[Ceila]

he has everything he needs to have success in first grade

Since you started this thread to ask for advice, and you received so many wonderful ideas, it would be great if you could share what strategies you were able to implement so far that have been useful.

 

[bsblady01]

he goes into the self contained room for reading for 2 hours. That was something they pushed for last year and I agreed to. (This is how I am really seeing that the curriculum is just a rehash of things he already knew). Someone comes in the gen ed room to help several kids with math including him but they want him in the other room for that as well.

one thing you need to ask for at his next iep meeting, is extra time for testing it will help him as he gets older. you can also put in that he can take the test in a different location then the rest of the class, and have the teacher read the test too him.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

He would not be able to be on grade level no, because of his comprehension issues. He has a lot of splinter skills and might do great at some math and not be able to get other parts. Same with reading as things get more complicated with comprehension and main idea he will try and get some of it right but never all. but in ese class he wouldnt be trying any of that there would be so much that would be left out, that he might be able to have done. Also he takes great pride being in the gen ed room. It feels to me that he should be allowed in there just like any of the other kids. To move him to the other room for math would completely change his placement and he wouldnt be a mainstreamed kid anymore. 4th grade.

Of course he should be allowed to be in an inclusive classroom, but sometimes it's not the best place for them and as time marches on it may very well be an environment that is destructive instead of constructive. Especially if that gap increases and they would be really over their head. It's hard You have to find that balance now where he will thrive. Forget keeping up with his grade level then. If it's not possible then you're just going to get frustrated that he is not in a place where he can't be. Let it go. The school will keep using that as a measuring stick because they need that to track progress. You just make sure he is moving forward and try and make sure he is getting what he needs so that gap increases as slowly as possible or hopefully not at all. Is he getting modified tests and assignments? What about tests? Is he tested in the class? If so you can see if pulling him to a small group for just for tests would benefit him.

 

[bsblady01]

Since you started this thread to ask for advice, and you received so many wonderful ideas, it would be great if you could share what strategies you were able to implement so far that have been useful.

we are going into our third week of school, so everything is still very new. but he does have extra time for any and all tests, he has an aid that comes and gets him for pull out for extra help in math and reading. he is a great kid. I did have to move his seat from the group setting his desk is now by my desk.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What kind of support is he getting when he's in the mainstreamed classroom? Does he have an aide with him? Or is there an aide in the room that maybe floats b/w him and another student or 2? There are options between fully mainstreaming a child and having them be in a separate special education class all day. If being in a mainstreamed class is encouraging him to do and try things he might not otherwise do/try in a non-mainstreamed class, and he doesn't currently have an aide, I would definitely pursue that before just moving his placement.

 

[bsblady01]

He would not be able to be on grade level no, because of his comprehension issues. He has a lot of splinter skills and might do great at some math and not be able to get other parts. Same with reading as things get more complicated with comprehension and main idea he will try and get some of it right but never all. but in ese class he wouldnt be trying any of that there would be so much that would be left out, that he might be able to have done. Also he takes great pride being in the gen ed room. It feels to me that he should be allowed in there just like any of the other kids. To move him to the other room for math would completely change his placement and he wouldnt be a mainstreamed kid anymore. 4th grade.

he would still be a mainstream student.

 

[Hrhpd]

we are going into our third week of school, so everything is still very new. but he does have extra time for any and all tests, he has an aid that comes and gets him for pull out for extra help in math and reading. he is a great kid. I did have to move his seat from the group setting his desk is now by my desk.

What kind of tests do you do in first grade that would need extra time? Not familiar with testing and autism.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What kind of tests do you do in first grade that would need extra time? Not familiar with testing and autism.

Pretty much all grades have standardized testing these days. I have taught in a district where there were quarterly standardized tests on top of the yearly ones required by the state.

 

[ez]

He has all kinds of accommodations in his iep but its difficult when they dont implement them. He does get tested and have all the testing accommodations. I even see that in the ese room so many obvious ones arent used, no examples for the work he is supposed to be doing, or things being broken down into more manageable steps. Simple stuff
I guess everyones experience in ese rooms are different. When my son was in one there was always a kid that would wind up in a behavioral setting, not sure what thats called, but this would be something they would be trying first. So you would have chairs coming down on top of you, constant screaming of profanities, threatening with scissors, police being called for a 7 year old. Sad for everyone but there was always one child whos behavior took over the class and of course no learning occurring and teachers having mental health crisis over the situation. My son walked around wearing headphones and flapping all day, probably terrified. This higher grade ese room doesnt seem to have that commotion but I'll admit I am jaded. At least in gen ed most kids are sitting at their desks and doing what they are supposed to be doing. As soon as my son went into a gen ed room the headphones were off. For a kid that likes structure gen ed rooms can actually be a better fit than everyone doing something different. It was hard for me to imagine that my son was capable of sitting at a desk all day and trying to do work, but that happened once he went in gen ed. And in our school here, his placement would change if he was in math and reading block in ese, so the gen ed teacher would no longer be his teacher and he wouldnt go there in the morning or do lunch or special area with gen ed either. it would change alot. Sorry to pull the topic off this thread btw, when I saw the term IEP it struck a nerve obviously.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

He has all kinds of accommodations in his iep but its difficult when they dont implement them. He does get tested and have all the testing accommodations. I even see that in the ese room so many obvious ones arent used, no examples for the work he is supposed to be doing, or things being broken down into more manageable steps. Simple stuff

I guess everyones experience in ese rooms are different. When my son was in one there was always a kid that would wind up in a behavioral setting, not sure what thats called, but this would be something they would be trying first. So you would have chairs coming down on top of you, constant screaming of profanities, threatening with scissors, police being called for a 7 year old. Sad for everyone but there was always one child whos behavior took over the class and of course no learning occurring and teachers having mental health crisis over the situation. My son walked around wearing headphones and flapping all day, probably terrified. This higher grade ese room doesnt seem to have that commotion but I'll admit I am jaded. At least in gen ed most kids are sitting at their desks and doing what they are supposed to be doing. As soon as my son went into a gen ed room the headphones were off. For a kid that likes structure gen ed rooms can actually be a better fit than everyone doing something different. It was hard for me to imagine that my son was capable of sitting at a desk all day and trying to do work, but that happened once he went in gen ed. And in our school here, his placement would change if he was in math and reading block in ese, so the gen ed teacher would no longer be his teacher and he wouldnt go there in the morning or do lunch or special area with gen ed either. it would change alot. Sorry to pull the topic off this thread btw, when I saw the term IEP it struck a nerve obviously.

Definitely. The class can't be constructive if kids are not in an appropriate learning environment. A child with a behavioral issue that is disruptive also needs to be in an environment that benefits them. Pulling into a small group may make it better but I can't imagine there's much learning going on. We have thankfully not had much experience with that. The next district over has a wonderful program for autistic kids so that is where they are sent unless they are able to thrive in a mainstreamed class. Kids with ADD/ADHD are not pulled and put into the same classroom as kids with learning disabilities/cognitive impairment. They are pulled to their own group. When they segregate the kids, they do it in the most beneficial way possible, they don't just pull them all and lump them into one group. They make an effort to divide by need.

What is he not having implemented in his IEP? I am sure you know if it's written in there they MUST abide by it. What state are you in? Most states have information online to help parents when they have a school that refuses to follow the IEP. In NJ it's PRISE - Parental Rights in Special Education. I helps parents know what their rights are and what to do if the school is not complying. Look online, I am sure your state woudl have similiar guidelines somewhere online.

 

[ez]

We live in Florida. Visual supports, help with organization, breaking things into smaller steps retaking tests, pretty long list. Schools here are really not set up for mainstreaming. He is breaking ground by being where he is. I bring an advocate to the iep meetings and teachers have admitted they arent doing things (like letting him retake tests) because they dont think they would work. Much easier for them to have him in the ese room, and lots of old school thinking that kids like him shouldnt be in gen ed. When he was younger they wanted him in a multi setting which is for the most profoundly disabled children and they dont teach academics at all, a non verbal setting. Where he is right now is pretty much light years from where they initially wanted to place him. I have done pretty well following my gut and not going along with their plans for him but its tough and a never ending battle it seems ughhh

 

[TheIncredibles!]

we are going into our third week of school, so everything is still very new. but he does have extra time for any and all tests, he has an aid that comes and gets him for pull out for extra help in math and reading. he is a great kid. I did have to move his seat from the group setting his desk is now by my desk.

The Aide pulls him out of the classroom for extra help? That's allowed in your school?

 

[TheIncredibles!]

We live in Florida. Visual supports, help with organization, breaking things into smaller steps retaking tests, pretty long list. Schools here are really not set up for mainstreaming. He is breaking ground by being where he is. I bring an advocate to the iep meetings and teachers have admitted they arent doing things (like letting him retake tests) because they dont think they would work. Much easier for them to have him in the ese room, and lots of old school thinking that kids like him shouldnt be in gen ed. When he was younger they wanted him in a multi setting which is for the most profoundly disabled children and they dont teach academics at all, a non verbal setting. Where he is right now is pretty much light years from where they initially wanted to place him. I have done pretty well following my gut and not going along with their plans for him but its tough and a never ending battle it seems ughhh

Much easier for them doesn't mean it's the best for him... Again you have the social vs the education thing going on here. He wants to be there so that is where he should be so he can feel good about himself socially. You need to address them not following the IEP though so he can feel good about himself academically as well. They cannot pick and choose what things they will and will not do. An IEP is basically a legally binding contract they must follow unless you agree to them not following it. I found Florida's version of NJ's PRISE - I am sure you have copies of this but just in case... http://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/7674/urlt/0064540-eseparent.pdf

It's too early in his education for you to start "allowing" them to follow the IEP or not. Stand your ground and force them to either comply or convince you there's another alternative that would be more beneficial.

As I said before my oldest is cognitively impaired. He's 17 now and it's not beneficial to him to be in a classroom with his peers. Even with an Aide they're teaching at a level he just cannot comprehend. So gradually over time things changed, but when he was in 4th grade you bet I had him in the main class with his peers. In fact our elementary school is not at all set up to have a full time separate Special Ed classroom. If he needed that he would have had to have gone to a different school. I still go back and forth with them for IEP at this age but I am firm where I stand. They want more basic skills at this point and sending him to jobsites. I allow 1 period of basic skills per day and 1 day per week to go to a job and I told them that will not change at any point until he leaves this school when he's 21. He has a capacity for learning so I want him in educational classes as much as possible. This year he is in Special Education Algebra with kids with LD and he's keeping up! I can't even help him with homework, I have to have DH do it. He's in a Special Ed Britist Lit class which he says is boring but they're working on Beowulf right now.

It's not easy and it's going to get harder so you need to be aggressive and nail this down now.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I agree with TheIncredibles! If they aren't following the IEP, and they are even *stating* to you that they aren't following the IEP, then that is a *huge* problem. IEPs are not optional lists of things they can try when they want to. They are a legally binding document. I'm glad to read that you do have an advocate that comes to the meetings with you - that's a great first step! What does the advocate say when they say they aren't implementing things from the IEP?

The link that TheIncredibles! provided above explains the Due Process procedure. This is essentially a court proceeding that occurs when there are disagreements between the parent and school about eligibility, services received, the IEP, etc. I am *not* suggesting that you immediately head to this step, but the link describes the kinds of evidence you would need in such a hearing to support your side - things like tape recordings of meetings, evals, letters and emails, etc. I would take a look at that list (pg. 43 in that link) and start collecting the evidence you would need in that situation. You may not ever have to actually *use* it in a due process hearing - sometimes just beginning the evidence collection process can show the school system that you are serious about pursuing this. They are not interested in having to go to Due Process..it's in their best interest to work things out to your satisfaction before it gets there.

I know in my state we are required to give the school district notice if we are going to record a meeting. I don't know if that law is the same in FL or not - but it's worth checking into. It can make districts sit up and listen if they are slacking on what they are supposed to do. Going this route, though, likely means the school district will likely have lawyers at that meeting so they can step in if needed and stop a district employee from saying something they shouldn't. In your case, that's not necessarily bad...a lawyer may stop them from saying they aren't upholding the IEP, but if you have them recorded stating the accommodations that your son will receive, and then they do not follow through with that, then you have evidence you need and you can take it from there if you want to.

Unfortunately, it can be an uphill battle getting our kids what they need. But in the end we're their only advocate. Sometimes they need us to remind them that we know what our child's rights are, and that they're required to uphold them.

ETA: I just wanted to add that I'm so sorry that you're having to fight so much to get what your child needs It is exhausting and neverending and it sucks. I really hope that it turns around for you this year!