Swine flu?

[G66]

I'm posting this from a sharred hotel computer, risking swine flue for my DIS fix

I have a bottle of hand sanitizer with me at all times. Between the 400 people in the conference roon and the plane ride home the computer is the least of my problems. I can't remember a time where I washed my hands so frequently and I'm washing like a sugeon getting ready for the OR. I have a hoodie to fend off any sneeze clouds on the plane. Hopefully it will help.

 

[fakereadhed]

I have a hoodie to fend off any sneeze clouds on the plane. Hopefully it will help.

I think it will work if you close it up, pulling the strings as tight as they go.

Personally, I wish I had the nerve to wear a mask EVERY time I fly. I think breathing everybody's air is just a disaster waiting to happen. This is the time for all of us germaphobes to shine.

 

[metalis4ever]

How can anyone possibly know that? Those sorts of statments can't be proven or disproven. Did you know there were no six sided snow flakes before there were humans to count them?

You are incorrect...Science can be proven or disproven that is the beauty of the Scientific Method, however current evidence indicates that the only virus in the "New World" prior to European contact was Syphilis. The high percentage of the viruses we come in contact with are the result of animal domestication and agriculture, therefore since Native American cultures relied on a mode of subsistence other than mass Agriculture i.e Horticulture and egalitarian Hunting and Gathering they had no need for domesticated animals other than dogs. Furthermore the urban areas that did exist in the New World with many of the Central American Empires were in no way similar to the post Constantine European and Middle Eastern Cities in the sense that they were clean. Sanitation breeds health, dumping refuse and trash on the sides of the streets and not bathing does not. Regarding a specific example, how else would it be explained that half of the Native American population in Plymouth Massachusetts was wiped out by the Cold Virus that was introduced by John Cabot in the late 1500's enabling the eventual settlement in 1620 of such an advantageous habitat? I won't even get into Columbus, Cortes, and General Jeffrey Amherst. I have focused on the Cultural factors there is also evidence that has also been discovered by Archaeologists and Physical Anthropologists through studying Native American remains that backs up this fact. So yes Science can be proven and disproven but until new evidence is discovered other than what I have expounded above the fact remains that only 1 yes 1 virus existed in the "New World" prior to European Contact.

Regarding this specific strain of Virus it has only killed .0001% (140 or so people) in Mexico which is essentially a 3rd world country where poverty reigns supreme so I am not worried one bit not anymore so than I am about any other deadly viruses (which is virtually all of them). As others have said Wash Your Hands and be smart.

 

[Baltosam]

You are incorrect...Science can be proven or disproven that is the beauty of the Scientific Method, however current evidence indicates that the only virus in the "New World" prior to European contact was Syphilis. The high percentage of the viruses we come in contact with are the result of animal domestication and agriculture, therefore since Native American cultures relied on a mode of subsistence other than mass Agriculture i.e Horticulture and egalitarian Hunting and Gathering they had no need for domesticated animals other than dogs. Furthermore the urban areas that did exist in the New World with many of the Central American Empires were in no way similar to the post Constantine European and Middle Eastern Cities in the sense that they were clean. Sanitation breeds health, dumping refuse and trash on the sides of the streets and not bathing does not. Regarding a specific example, how else would it be explained that half of the Native American population in Plymouth Massachusetts was wiped out by the Cold Virus that was introduced by John Cabot in the late 1500's enabling the eventual settlement in 1620 of such an advantageous habitat? I won't even get into Columbus, Cortes, and General Jeffrey Amherst. I have focused on the Cultural factors there is also evidence that has also been discovered by Archaeologists and Physical Anthropologists through studying Native American remains that backs up this fact. So yes Science can be proven and disproven but until new evidence is discovered other than what I have expounded above the fact remains that only 1 yes 1 virus existed in the "New World" prior to European Contact.

Regarding this specific strain of Virus it has only killed .0001% (140 or so people) in Mexico which is essentially a 3rd world country where poverty reigns supreme so I am not worried one bit not anymore so than I am about any other deadly viruses (which is virtually all of them). As others have said Wash Your Hands and be smart.

I'm not disputing the facts in this post, about Europeans exposing natives to strains of agressive viruses that they had no defenses to. Or washing hands being a great way to reduce your risk. Just the whole conclusion you draw about viruses in general existing in the new world.

Here is a compilation of what modern science has to say about the origins of viruses on this little ball we call Earth.

Viruses are found wherever there is life and have probably existed since living cells first evolved. The origin of viruses is unclear because they do not form fossils, so molecular techniques have been the most useful means of investigating how they arose. These techniques rely on the availability of ancient viral DNA or RNA, but, unfortunately, most of the viruses that have been preserved and stored in laboratories are less than 90 years old.

There are three main theories of the origins of viruses:

Regressive theory: Viruses may have once been small cells that parasitised larger cells. Over time, genes not required by their parasitism were lost. This is also called the degeneracy theory.

Cellular origin theory (sometimes called the vagrancy theory): Some viruses may have evolved from bits of DNA or RNA that "escaped" from the genes of a larger organism.

Coevolution theory: Viruses may have evolved from complex molecules of protein and nucleic acid at the same time as cells first appeared on earth and would have been dependent on cellular life for many millions of years.

I agree that many viruses arose from all the means you mentioned however you have left out many many types of viruses that didn't originate from those sources like for example the viruses in apes and monkeys (I think there were a few monkey species in the new world like say in the Amazon basin maybe or the jungles of Central America). It is very possible that whole groups of ancient human populations died off from prehistoric viral infections that crossed species from monkey to man.

 

[appycat]

Hi all-I'm traveling next weekend to the World and I was wondering if Disney has officially reported any outbreaks yet. I'm totally bummed out...Appycat

 

[miss missy]

I think it will work if you close it up, pulling the strings as tight as they go.

Personally, I wish I had the nerve to wear a mask EVERY time I fly. I think breathing everybody's air is just a disaster waiting to happen. This is the time for all of us germaphobes to shine.

Me too I ALWAYS have the air full blast so it pushes air away and down to the side if that makes sense. I always wear a hoodie and breath into my sleeves LOL I swear, a mask is the next step. A plane is just a germ factory plain and simple. Bad air out bad air in... ICKY!!

 

[G66]

So far I've been pretty good about the hand washing and sanitizing. I have a three hour flight home. If I end up getting sick after all my dilligence, then I would conclude it's nearly impossible to fend off the germs in a travel situation... short of a hazmat suit. Hopefully I won't get a hacker around me on the plane.

I had a head cold a few weeks ago. I'm hoping maybe my imunity is up from fighting that one off. Wish me luck.

 

[boufa]

I don't usual chime in, but I gotta do it this time. Most of you will likely say that it was better when I kept my mouth shut.

Some info about swine flu. As nearly every expert (and no the media does not count as experts) and they will tell you that the swine flu is no worse than the regular flu. Yea that is not great, to be sure, but there are more regular flu cases running around out there and the chance of getting one of them is far greater than swine flu. Other than the name, there is no significant difference.

Basic common sense precautions, the same as you should do every day, is the best defense.

This is just opinion, but this think looks pretty hard to catch. The case in Ohio (and I think there is only the one) was from a kid who spent several weeks in Mexico City with his family. No one else in his family tested positive for it. I would assume that they were equally exposed, that is 1 in 6. They tested the entire elementary school where he attended for a week after returning from Mexico. The interesting thing is that they found 6 kids with the flu, 3 have been confirmed as NOT swine flu, and 3 are still waiting for test results.

Proving my first point, people die of various strains of the flu everyday, and at a far greater rate than the swine flu. Some precautions are o.k., but don't be stupid careful. Also, the WHO stated that it was unclear, and unlikely that the surgical masks do anything to slow or stop the transmition. They just look cool on T.V.

O.k. I'm done, becareful, and enjoy your disney trips. Wish I was going... hell, I would go even if the outbreak was in Florida rather than Mexico, its Disney, it would be worth it.

 

[metalis4ever]

I'm not disputing the facts in this post, about Europeans exposing natives to strains of agressive viruses that they had no defenses to. Or washing hands being a great way to reduce your risk. Just the whole conclusion you draw about viruses in general existing in the new world.

Here is a compilation of what modern science has to say about the origins of viruses on this little ball we call Earth.

Viruses are found wherever there is life and have probably existed since living cells first evolved. The origin of viruses is unclear because they do not form fossils, so molecular techniques have been the most useful means of investigating how they arose. These techniques rely on the availability of ancient viral DNA or RNA, but, unfortunately, most of the viruses that have been preserved and stored in laboratories are less than 90 years old.

There are three main theories of the origins of viruses:

Regressive theory: Viruses may have once been small cells that parasitised larger cells. Over time, genes not required by their parasitism were lost. This is also called the degeneracy theory.

Cellular origin theory (sometimes called the vagrancy theory): Some viruses may have evolved from bits of DNA or RNA that "escaped" from the genes of a larger organism.

Coevolution theory: Viruses may have evolved from complex molecules of protein and nucleic acid at the same time as cells first appeared on earth and would have been dependent on cellular life for many millions of years.

I agree that many viruses arose from all the means you mentioned however you have left out many many types of viruses that didn't originate from those sources like for example the viruses in apes and monkeys (I think there were a few monkey species in the new world like say in the Amazon basin maybe or the jungles of Central America). It is very possible that whole groups of ancient human populations died off from prehistoric viral infections that crossed species from monkey to man.

Hmmm great points indeed Yes there are/were quite a few monkey species in Central America so what you are saying makes perfect sense when looked at holistically. I drew my examples from memory and knowledge as I am sure that you drew most of your points from however do you have any reference recommendations that I could read regarding the "Theory of the Origin of Viruses". The majority of my knowledge comes from my Cultural Anthropology and History background therefore I need to brush up on my Microscopic Biology so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Evolution is so fascinating, I know I sound like a complete geek but I could read about General and Specific Evolution both on a Micro and Macro Evolutionary standpoint for hours upon hours without getting bored.

So when do you think the Swine Flu Hysteria will die down? I can not believe that we are allowing the media to drive this the way they have. Sadly it shows how lacking the Science Education in America is. Have you seen that statistic where we rank second to last of all "industrialized Nations" in the teaching and acceptance of Evolution. We rank slightly above Turkey, which unless I am mistaken is a Theocracy So sad, this is the reason why people in this Country believe that Anti-Bacterial Solutions (Purell) will clean your hands and lower the likely hood of spreading and contracting a Virus There is a reason why they are taking that stuff out of Hospitals!!! Nothing can replace washing your hands with soap and water, nothing..well except for Bleach but that's just not healthy

 

[angelegod]

There is no substitute for common sense when it comes to hygiene.

1. Wash your hands.
2. Avoid sticking your hands on things that everyone else touches, because for some gross reason, they don't follow Rule#1.
3. After touching #3, wash your hands.
4. Think about the places that everyone touches and try to get creative with you use - buttons on elevators, hand holds on buses, salt and pepper shakers in restaurants, railings on stairs, etc.
5. Avoid those in the crowd who look like Typhoid Mary.
6. Drink Scotch to kill the germs in your mouth (ok, that doesn't really help, but it makes me feel better).

Every cough is a gentle mist of bugs. You can't completely avoid it, but you can be smart and safe and stand a reasonable chance of being healthy and happy.

Have a good dinner.

-The Grumpus

Will handsadizers work if a bathroom is not nearby

 

[crazydisneyman]

I found this on Vacations to Go:

Disney
Updated April 30th
We continue to evaluate and monitor reports regarding cases of swine influenza in Mexico and the United States, as well as other regions around the globe.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) have recently recommended that travelers avoid non-essential travel to Mexico.

As a result of this recommendation, Disney Cruise Line has modified the May 2, 2009 Western Caribbean voyage of the Disney Magic to include a stop in Nassau, The Bahamas, instead of Cozumel, Mexico. Our itinerary will be as follows:

Saturday - Depart Port Canaveral
Sunday - Key West, Florida
Monday - Day At Sea
Tuesday - Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands (tender ashore)
Wednesday - Day at Sea
Thursday - Nassau, The Bahamas
Friday - Disney's Castaway Cay, The Bahamas
Saturday - Arrive Port Canaveral

At this time, no itinerary changes have been made to future Western Caribbean voyages. We will continue to monitor and evaluate the situation in Mexico and make future modifications as needed.

-----> Interesting

 

[cchev]

Will handsadizers work if a bathroom is not nearby

Yes...a nice alcohol based one would be great

 

[G66]

Made it back home. Packed plane. There were at least three people on the plane with surgical masks covering their mouth and nose.

I'll tell you one good thing I have observed. It appears that more people are actually washing their hands thoroughly in the bathrooms. If nothing else, maybe the hype will instill some good habits in people and we will all benefit in the long run.

 

[Baltosam]

Hmmm great points indeed Yes there are/were quite a few monkey species in Central America so what you are saying makes perfect sense when looked at holistically. I drew my examples from memory and knowledge as I am sure that you drew most of your points from however do you have any reference recommendations that I could read regarding the "Theory of the Origin of Viruses". The majority of my knowledge comes from my Cultural Anthropology and History background therefore I need to brush up on my Microscopic Biology so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Evolution is so fascinating, I know I sound like a complete geek but I could read about General and Specific Evolution both on a Micro and Macro Evolutionary standpoint for hours upon hours without getting bored.

So when do you think the Swine Flu Hysteria will die down? I can not believe that we are allowing the media to drive this the way they have. Sadly it shows how lacking the Science Education in America is. Have you seen that statistic where we rank second to last of all "industrialized Nations" in the teaching and acceptance of Evolution. We rank slightly above Turkey, which unless I am mistaken is a Theocracy So sad, this is the reason why people in this Country believe that Anti-Bacterial Solutions (Purell) will clean your hands and lower the likely hood of spreading and contracting a Virus There is a reason why they are taking that stuff out of Hospitals!!! Nothing can replace washing your hands with soap and water, nothing..well except for Bleach but that's just not healthy

I'm sorry but I really don't have a list of books to recommend. Its not my field just have a wierd interest. I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life as a young person. I love science but suck at math so my plan to get a degree in chemistry/microbiology didn't pan out. Anyway I dug out a few old text books because of your post. I thought wow can that be true? It looks like your points which by the way are all very good simply are not complete enough to draw the "one virus" conclusion. It looks like from my cursory investigation that there simply is not enough information for science to draw conclusions. However there are viruses in almost every living species on the planet even in very isolated areas. This also looks like one of those scientific dead ends because there doesn't seem to be anyway to study it at this time, tribal people didn't leave written records plus ancient people who did had no knowledge of what was happening to them and the virus leaves little to nothing behind.

I do want to thank you for your posts though because this is an extremely intersting area and has sparked my interest to learn more.

As far as the hysteria it will die down when the media stops reporting on it as if it were the black death. There are a few reports out now that reflect what the CDC is actually learning about this bug. It looks like it is a human virus that has bird and swine markers. The culling of pigs like they did in Egypt looks was a huge overreaction. They don't have a solid explination why there have been so many deaths in Mexico and not elsewhere. As of today it appears that this is whole thing just is not as serious as it was being made out to be by the world media. I suppose they just wanted something other then the world wide recession to sensationalize.