STUPID AIRLINE FEES: Stand up and REBEL!!! (Getting around the fees)

[jlewisinsyr]

Couple of points for you business travellers. If the leisure traveler stops flying, your fairs will be higher. And I have seen some of your carry on bags. They have gooten bigger as the overhead compartments have stayed the same. Your bags are next.

If leisure travel stops altogether, there will be a lot of issues, but most leisure travelers provide little profit to airlines, it's the last minute fares, surcharges and freight cargo that do.

 

[declansdad]

...and why exactly do you think airlines raise their fares closer to the date of departure. It is because they know that is when business travelers buy tickets. It's not some random coincidence. Most business travelers (if their travel policy allows) prefer to stay loyal to one or two airlines. They do not pick airline A over airline B because it is $25 cheaper as many leisure travelers do. That loyalty is why airlines reward very frequent flyers.

I know that, it is about the supply and demand. A leisure traveller may get a cheap fare booking months ahead but they also have to put up with numerous schedule changes. Loyalty programs for all types of business are designed to encourage loyalty first, not as a reward.

 

[declansdad]

If leisure travel stops altogether, there will be a lot of issues, but most leisure travelers provide little profit to airlines, it's the last minute fares, surcharges and freight cargo that do.

True but losing those customers will still have an impact on fares.

 

[CarolA]

Many business travellers do not book flights months ahead of time. This is why you pay higher prices. A ticket purchased should include your one piece of checked luggage and your carry on. I don't think that is to much to ask.

Couple of points for you business travellers. If the leisure traveler stops flying, your fairs will be higher. And I have seen some of your carry on bags. They have gooten bigger as the overhead compartments have stayed the same. Your bags are next.

Actually is the lesiure travelers paid a "fair" fare then I think my fares would go down or stay the same. There is NO way it COSTS $1,200 to get me from Nashville to Atlanta. I am subsidizing the $59 airfare. If lesiure travelers quit flying I expect that some airlines will go out of business (Allegiant anyone?) I expect that there will be dramatically fewer flights. I doubt I will pay more.

My carryons are one 22" suitcase that EASILY fits in the overhead and that I can easily lift in the overhead bin and one briefcase that fits under my seat. I think I am safe! (And that's for a week out of town, if I go longer I check. And if I have to I will pay the fee for first bag checked and I won't whine, carryon, or act like the airline is abusing me personally. )

 

[jodifla]

Wow! If this is the logic you're going to use in your rant with the gate agents - good luck! And, just for the record, people don't CHOOSE to be disabled! This was a horrible analogy and as the mother of a disabled child, I take offense to it. Seriously, if you don't like what an airline is charging you, find another airline. Or as another pp suggested - drive!

Offense noted and post changed, with my apologies.

 

[bavaria]

I know that bashing the business traveller feels good here, but what so many fail to realize is that the business traveller and/or last minute traveller subsidizes all those bargain fares people buy here.

CarolA and I are not talking about us paying a fare a few dollars more than most of you; we are talking about fares that are often 500% or more than the base fare on a flight. Fares in the four and sometimes five digit range... (and yes, before my gang of detractors appears, we sometimes pay that for our vacations, because we don't have enough lead time to plan in advance)

Then there are the other fees we pay. I pay more in change fees in a given year than a family of four most likely pays for their airfare to Disney. And I pay change fees on my own vacation travel; quite often plans change at the last minute and I have to cancel or postpone.

I once told our esteemed moderator the cost of some of my flights, so that she could better understand the disparity between what many posters seem to think is reality, and the actual reality that companies pay for travel.

Many many business travellers are on the road 75-100% of their work time. We are not talking about BettyLou who is sent to attend a trade show four times a year and can buy a ticket months in advance, but the traveller who wakes up to an early morning call saying 'you need to get to XYZ NOW!' or only learns next week's travel schedule a few days prior. For many of us, that is the reality, and I don't think that the majority of readers here have any idea of the disparity between the fares they pay and the fares PLUS miscellaneous fees companies/business travellers pay to the airlines.

 

[bavaria]

To bring this thread back on topic, my previous post is why I have no issues with different fare classes being allowed different baggage allowances. If someone pays $3000 for a walk up ticket, why shouldn't they be allowed 20 more pounds of luggage, or one extra suitcase, than someone who paid $99 for the same ticket?

 

[Camster0307]

Offense noted and post changed, with my apologies.

Thank you!

 

[Kathy C]

To bring this thread back on topic, my previous post is why I have no issues with different fare classes being allowed different baggage allowances. If someone pays $3000 for a walk up ticket, why shouldn't they be allowed 20 more pounds of luggage, or one extra suitcase, than someone who paid $99 for the same ticket?

So what you're saying is I should be "punished" because I was able to plan my travel in advance. I know many times with business travel things happen at the last minute, and the option of planning isn't there but don't punish the vacation or business traveler who was able to take advantage of cheaper fares. Many companies are cutting down on business travel these days too because it's affecting their bottom line just like it's affecting ours. Like I said in an earlier post, I don't have a problem paying for a second piece of luggage, but I do think every traveler should be able to check their first piece without a fee (and a weight limit is fine). And again, we don't ever carry anything on board that has to be stowed overhead, but that may change now.

 

[bavaria]

So what you're saying is I should be "punished" because I was able to plan my travel in advance. I know many times with business travel things happen at the last minute, and the option of planning isn't there but don't punish the vacation or business traveler who was able to take advantage of cheaper fares. Many companies are cutting down on business travel these days too because it's affecting their bottom line just like it's affecting ours. Like I said in an earlier post, I don't have a problem paying for a second piece of luggage, but I do think every traveler should be able to check their first piece without a fee (and a weight limit is fine). And again, we don't ever carry anything on board that has to be stowed overhead, but that may change now.

No, I am saying that I have no issue with frequent flyers who maintain a certain elite status, and those that pay full fare to have a 'free' 2nd bag allowance.

That is how the airlines are rewarding loyalty. Believe me, that $25 is built into the $2000 fare.

 

[declansdad]

Actually is the lesiure travelers paid a "fair" fare then I think my fares would go down or stay the same. There is NO way it COSTS $1,200 to get me from Nashville to Atlanta. I am subsidizing the $59 airfare. If lesiure travelers quit flying I expect that some airlines will go out of business (Allegiant anyone?) I expect that there will be dramatically fewer flights. I doubt I will pay more.

My carryons are one 22" suitcase that EASILY fits in the overhead and that I can easily lift in the overhead bin and one briefcase that fits under my seat. I think I am safe! (And that's for a week out of town, if I go longer I check. And if I have to I will pay the fee for first bag checked and I won't whine, carryon, or act like the airline is abusing me personally. )

I not whining, just talking about the way a pricing system works. There is no reason the the fare could not include one checked bag. You don't want to bring one, don't bring it.

Your fares will go up if airlines go out of business. We have very few options in most parts of Canada and we pay very high fares on all tickets.

I know that bashing the business traveller feels good here, but what so many fail to realize is that the business traveller and/or last minute traveller subsidizes all those bargain fares people buy here.


Many many business travellers are on the road 75-100% of their work time. We are not talking about BettyLou who is sent to attend a trade show four times a year and can buy a ticket months in advance, but the traveller who wakes up to an early morning call saying 'you need to get to XYZ NOW!' or only learns next week's travel schedule a few days prior. For many of us, that is the reality, and I don't think that the majority of readers here have any idea of the disparity between the fares they pay and the fares PLUS miscellaneous fees companies/business travellers pay to the airlines.

Funny, I thought it was the leasure thraveller that was getting bashed on this thread.

Again, the reason that you pay the higher fare is exactly the reason you state above. You are booking with very little notice.

 

[bavaria]

Again, the reason that you pay the higher fare is exactly the reason you state above. You are booking with very little notice.

Yes, I realize that, and I have no issues with that. But I think that there are some infrequent travellers who are taking the baggage fee personally, and need to step back and take some perspective.

Look at the post just a few above yours saying that they should not be 'punished' for booking early. They are not being punished. The last minute traveller and/or loyal traveller is being rewarded by not paying the fee.

The irony is that the last minute/loyal traveller is far less likely to check a 2nd bag, so they are getting an empty reward. And for a $2,000 ticket, a waiver of a $25 is a small percentage of the total ticket cost.

 

[safetymom]

It is the business traveler that purchases the last minute fare that is keeping the airlines afloat.

It surely isn't the leisure traveler that booked a cheap fare months in advance.

 

[CarolMN]

My 2 cents:

Fees or no fees, like it or not (I don't), leisure fares are going up.

Airlines are losing money on every leisure fare they offer due to the price of jet fuel. The smart ones (the ones that survive) will decrease the number of planes in the air and reduce capacity. Reduced capacity will lead to increased fares. (I realize that airlines like SWA will continue to offer lower fares until they "use up" the lower-cost fuel they purchased via contracts. But those contracts won't last forever).

I do not want to pay more to fly - at some price point I will have to vacation closer to home (or maybe AT home, LOL). Not looking forward to it. But low fares to WDW are not an entitilement.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So what you're saying is I should be "punished" because I was able to plan my travel in advance

Nope. We're not being "punished". The fare paid by the frequent short-notice traveler - business or not - is being "rewarded" for paying $599 for the same ticket for which I paid $59.

It is the business traveler that purchases the last minute fare that is keeping the airlines afloat.

It surely isn't the leisure traveler that booked a cheap fare months in advance.

Even the interest/investment income the airline {potentially} earns by having my $99 six months in advance doesn't come close to equalling the $1000 bavaria may have to pay for that same flight but that she booked the day before departure.

 

[declansdad]

Yes, I realize that, and I have no issues with that. But I think that there are some infrequent travellers who are taking the baggage fee personally, and need to step back and take some perspective.

Look at the post just a few above yours saying that they should not be 'punished' for booking early. They are not being punished. The last minute traveller and/or loyal traveller is being rewarded by not paying the fee.

The irony is that the last minute/loyal traveller is far less likely to check a 2nd bag, so they are getting an empty reward. And for a $2,000 ticket, a waiver of a $25 is a small percentage of the total ticket cost.

I agree with you that there are people who are not being reasonable about the fee for the second bag. I have no problem with that fee. My point is that in costing the price a ticket, the airlines will factor in things like baggage. I don't think it is unreasonable that the cost of that first bag be included in the fare.

 

[Lewisc]

Airlines have found passengers will book the cheapest fare that shows up in the search engine. Blame customers for the fact that at least some airlines are "unbundling" the cost of checking even a single bag.

Passengers have to add the cost of checking the number of bags they need. Passengers that don't check any bags may save a few dollars.

I agree with you that there are people who are not being reasonable about the fee for the second bag. I have no problem with that fee. My point is that in costing the price a ticket, the airlines will factor in things like baggage. I don't think it is unreasonable that the cost of that first bag be included in the fare.

 

[DebbieB]

Airlines have found passengers will book the cheapest fare that shows up in the search engine. Blame customers for the fact that at least some airlines are "unbundling" the cost of checking even a single bag.

Passengers have to add the cost of checking the number of bags they need. Passengers that don't check any bags may save a few dollars.

Why blame the customers? Should they say "no I don't want that cheap fare, give me a higher one"? The airlines need to raise fares or charge fees to cover their costs, then the customers can take it or leave it. But I don't see blaming the customers for the current situation, it's the free enterprise system, people will pay the lowest amount they can. People don't walk into a car dealership and say "I know you are hurting, I'll just pay sticker price no questions asked". Of course they are going to hunt for a bargain.

 

[localdriver]

Here's an article about getting around the new charges:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24761262/

So you expect airlines to operate at a loss just to keep prices where we like them...not going to happen, nor should it. Want to do something about it? Contact your US Senator and Congressman and DEMAND THEY PASS legislation that allows oil exploration within the US 48, Alaska, and all offshore waters, plus open the wells that have been capped. Yes it should be done with sensitivity for the environment, but it must be done. We cannot continue to be held hostage by foreign oil and OPEC. We must also build NEW refineries, and stop the 24 blends of gas we now produce. Pick the cleanest one and produce it for e1.

We have dug this hole for ourselves. We need to stop thinking about polar bears survival, and start acting for our own.

JMHO

 

[CarolA]

So you expect airlines to operate at a loss just to keep prices where we like them...not going to happen, nor should it. Want to do something about it? Contact your US Senator and Congressman and DEMAND THEY PASS legislation that allows oil exploration within the US 48, Alaska, and all offshore waters, plus open the wells that have been capped. Yes it should be done with sensitivity for the environment, but it must be done. We cannot continue to be held hostage by foreign oil and OPEC. We must also build NEW refineries, and stop the 24 blends of gas we now produce. Pick the cleanest one and produce it for e1.

We have dug this hole for ourselves. We need to stop thinking about polar bears survival, and start acting for our own.

JMHO

And when you get it out of the ground then what??? This is a great myth here on the DIS. WE just drill and our problems are solved!

However, one of the issues is that there is currently a shortage of REFINING capacity to turn that new oil into gas.......

And anyone on here want a refinery in thier back yard?


This article is about a year old, but I don't think the situation has changed.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10554471

"Instead, Tesoro and other refiners are making smaller wagers, increasing capacity and reliability at their existing refineries. Tesoro plans to spend about $1 billion at the Los Angeles plant over the next five years. That should boost output by about 20 percent. That is helpful, but not enough to make a big dent in prices.

"In the next five years, we think the world is going to be fairly short of refining capacity. And that's going to keep margins at a higher than normal level," Smith, Tesoro's CEO, says. "

And here's some additional info on this.
http://www.peak-oil-news.info/oil-refinery-capacity-bottleneck/

High oil prices are still being propped up by a shortage of refinery capacity and there is little sign of the bottleneck easing until 2010, industry executives and officials discussing OPEC’s future have warned.

That potential respite relies on the unlikely prospect all 66 refineries planned by oil companies and producers being built, as well as a total of about 300 billion dollars in investment by 2015, they added.

“The need for downstream capacity is just as important as other issues,” said Claude Mandil, executive director of the International Energy Agency at a two-day conference which was continuing Wednesday.