Strongest evidence yet against spanking

[Deb in IA]

OK, for all those who said, "I was spanked and I spanked my kids, and they ended up just fine", I'll add my corollary:

I was spanked, and I DIDN'T spank my kids, and they ended up just fine.

Yes, I do remember the times I was spanked. You know, I DON'T remember what I was spanked for.

But what I DO remember was how hurt and upset I was that my parents, who I loved more than anyone in the world, could stike me, intentionally hurt me, and make me suffer.

I swore I would never do that to my own kids.

And I never did.

 

[AKL_Megs]

FWIW, as a child, I was NEVER spanked, hit, or beaten.

I was probably the most "defiant" child who would "demand immediate satisfaction of their wants and needs, get frustrated easily, and have temper tantrums"



I just liked how the study claimed that spankings caused these things. I wonder what my excuse was...

 

[kellyw8863]

Nobody's prosecuting anyone. In fact, the only ones I see getting all emotional in this debate are the pro-spankers (admittedly I haven't read every single post). None of the anti-spankers has suggested that if you spank, you are therefore beating your child. That is as absurd as saying that if you raise your voice to your child, you are verbally abusive.

In fact, the research merely suggests that children who are spanked appear to be more likely to be more aggressive as they get older. That's it. It doesn't say if you spank, you're a bad parent or that you're abusive. It doesn't say that your child is definitely going to be messed up. It does suggest that perhaps it's a parenting risk not worth taking, especially when other methods of discipline can be effective when applied appropriately.

 

[MrsKreamer]

I've seen some pretty strong evidence against spanking in my special ed preschool class. Those who are spanked at home have no problem hitting the classroom staff when things don't go their way at school. They have figured out that we won't hit back. We have two kids right now whose parents have told us they spank their kids for discipline. Those are the two who have no qualms about hitting, kicking, spitting at and biting the staff and sometimes the other kids. I've seen one kid hitting his mom outside when she was dropping him off. Apparently, it's not working! We encourage positive reinforcement for discipline. Give the child something to work for (like a trip to the park, 1/2 hour of video game play, a favorite dessert after dinner, etc.). Don't give the reward if the behavior doesn't improve. Be prepared for worse behavior when you don't give the reward but don't give in. Eventually it will get better. It works for us all the time and we've never once hit a kid!

Don't some special ed children have discipline problems, or at least less understanding of their actions vs consequences, anyway? My pre-schooler may be special needs, and one of the main problems I have with him is not knowing how to properly discipline him. He hits, bites, and scratches his older brother....while my oldest who was swatted as a toddler, knows not to be violent to other kids.
The difference, IMO, is that my youngest may be special needs. It seems that using a special needs class to make your observations, may be skewed.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Nobody's prosecuting anyone. In fact, the only ones I see getting all emotional in this debate are the pro-spankers (admittedly I haven't read every single post). None of the anti-spankers has suggested that if you spank, you are therefore beating your child. That is as absurd as saying that if you raise your voice to your child, you are verbally abusive.

In fact, the research merely suggests that children who are spanked appear to be more likely to be more aggressive as they get older. That's it. It doesn't say if you spank, you're a bad parent or that you're abusive. It doesn't say that your child is definitely going to be messed up. It does suggest that perhaps it's a parenting risk not worth taking, especially when other methods of discipline can be effective when applied appropriately.

You need to read more posts as quite a few anti-spankers are very emotional about this topic, and have said repeatedly that spanking = abuse.

 

[FireDancer]

I just liked how the study claimed that spankings caused these things. I wonder what my excuse was...

I believe you just discovered something that is often over looked in many studies that look at behavior...you are an individual and not a pre-programmed robot that will uniformly respond to the same stimulus or environment.

This is not only true of children but of adults. Any good manager knows that what is needed to motivate one employee will not be the same for another. Some respond better to positive reinforcement, some to negative. Some can handle a harsh scolding and respond positively, others are fragile and will implode.

It isn't unheard of (as some posters on this thread have pointed out) that a parent with 2 individual children will have to slightly change their parenting style for the second because they are not a clone of the first.

Life would be both easier and more boring if everyone was the same.

For some kids spanking will not be the answer, for others it will be. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep all the available tools in your parenting arsenal and then use the one that works best for you as opposed to pre-eliminate the method that might end up working the best? I'm sure no one that spanks their child uses it as their sole form of punishment and most won't even use it as the first resort.

 

[AshleyW]

Nobody's prosecuting anyone. In fact, the only ones I see getting all emotional in this debate are the pro-spankers (admittedly I haven't read every single post). None of the anti-spankers has suggested that if you spank, you are therefore beating your child. That is as absurd as saying that if you raise your voice to your child, you are verbally abusive.

In fact, the research merely suggests that children who are spanked appear to be more likely to be more aggressive as they get older. That's it. It doesn't say if you spank, you're a bad parent or that you're abusive. It doesn't say that your child is definitely going to be messed up. It does suggest that perhaps it's a parenting risk not worth taking, especially when other methods of discipline can be effective when applied appropriately.

You should read all the posts. The anti-spankers have made it sound as if they are better parents than spankers and that spankers should 'improve their parenting skills'.

 

[princessmom29]

According to dictionary.com -

Hit - to deal a blow or strike to
Spank - to strike with an open hand esp. on the buttocks

According to the definitions provided, all spanking is hitting, though all hitting is not necessarily spanking. So perhaps the connotative meaning of the word "hit" evokes stronger emotions than "spank," but you can't deny that they are mutually inclusive. It is what it is.

Many, many words have multiple meanings and different usages, not all of which are quoted in the dictionary. This is one of those cases.

Children, young children in particular, are generally ill-equipped to understand intent. And thank you for at least acknowledging that the physical act is the same.

That is why you explain to achild why thet are being disciplined. No form of discipline is effective if the chidl doesn'r understand why they are being disciplined.

But he is scared of you. You just said he freaks out when he thinks his mommy is mad at him. That is emotional manipulation.

I have two sons. Guess what? They are two totally different human beings despite sharing the same parents. My eldest was swatted as a toddler when he was in danger, and responds really well to time-out and knowing when I am disappointed in his choices. My youngest...well, we haven't found one discipline technique that works for him all the time. He may have some sensory issues though, so I don't think he can help some of his tantrums.

I get a lot of "He just needs a good spanking". He doesn't understand why he is being spanked...but he doesn't understand time-outs either.

That said, I am not anti-spanking nor pro-spanking. To each their own.

I freaked out when I thought my mom was mad at me without any emotional minipulation at all. I was a sensitive child and din't deal well with anyone being upset at or because of me. i am still that way. It is just an inborn trait. Some kids are just that way. Like you said, every child is different.

 

[monkeybug]

FWIW, as a child, I was NEVER spanked, hit, or beaten.

I was probably the most "defiant" child who would "demand immediate satisfaction of their wants and needs, get frustrated easily, and have temper tantrums"



I just liked how the study claimed that spankings caused these things. I wonder what my excuse was...

This is why it's a bad idea to use the way we personally "turned out" to support/condemn spanking.
When they do studies they take (hopefully) large pools of people and look for general similarities among groups. Our individual experiences aren't helpful because we could be the exception.
There are people who smoke for years and never get cancer, there are children horribly abused who grow up successful and well adjusted, there are people raised in loving normal homes and end up in prison. It does no good use individual experiences as support to an argument, the only time our individual experiences are helpful in determining a trend, is if they are compared to the experiences of many others.

 

[WildLodge]

The premise of the study is flawed. You need to take a sample at birth, have a control group and a study group. That is not happening, so we go on guessing. It can easily be understood that defiant children are prone to the activities that precipitate spanking.

I was spanked as a child and have only spanked one of my children, and that was just once. We got a puppy and my boy was abusing it. I made it clear that if he hurt the puppy, I would hurt him. He did, and I spanked him once as hard as I could. I told him I would add a spank each time he hurt the puppy in the future. Since then, he has been as gentle as a lamb.

Spanking has its place, but overuse results in it loosing its force as a tool.

 

[jodifla]

This is why it's a bad idea to use the way we personally "turned out" to support/condemn spanking.
When they do studies they take (hopefully) large pools of people and look for general similarities among groups. Our individual experiences aren't helpful because we could be the exception.
There are people who smoke for years and never get cancer, there are children horribly abused who grow up successful and well adjusted, there are people raised in loving normal homes and end up in prison. It does no good use individual experiences as support to an argument, the only time our individual experiences are helpful in determining a trend, is if they are compared to the experiences of many others.

Right, and this study said it controlled for variables .

Again, it's my bet that most of the self-described spankers on this board, who seem to have done it a few times when their kids are little, aren't the type of parents this study is addressing.

It certainly wasn't what I was addressing when I said parents need to educate themselves on better parenting techniques.

As soon as I read "Love and Logic" I knew it's what we'd be using. It's actually what are school system uses as well.

 

[jodifla]

OK, for all those who said, "I was spanked and I spanked my kids, and they ended up just fine", I'll add my corollary:

I was spanked, and I DIDN'T spank my kids, and they ended up just fine.

Yes, I do remember the times I was spanked. You know, I DON'T remember what I was spanked for.

But what I DO remember was how hurt and upset I was that my parents, who I loved more than anyone in the world, could stike me, intentionally hurt me, and make me suffer.

I swore I would never do that to my own kids.

And I never did.

My friends whose parents used spanking and threats of spanking as the go-to form of discipline had similar experiences. They were angry and hurt and mad at their parents. They may have avoided the "wrong" behaviors that got them into trouble to avoid getting hit, but they didn't learn WHY the behavior was a bad idea. The spanking got in the way of that.

 

[Scurvy]

I have two sons. Guess what? They are two totally different human beings despite sharing the same parents. My eldest was swatted as a toddler when he was in danger, and responds really well to time-out and knowing when I am disappointed in his choices. My youngest...well, we haven't found one discipline technique that works for him all the time. He may have some sensory issues though, so I don't think he can help some of his tantrums.

I get a lot of "He just needs a good spanking". He doesn't understand why he is being spanked...but he doesn't understand time-outs either.

That said, I am not anti-spanking nor pro-spanking. To each their own.

And this is a perfect example of why the anti- vs. pro- spanking threads are so ridiculous. Kids are different. Spanking works for some kids, and it just makes things worse for other kids. You can do all the studies you want but the bottom line is that there is no one way to parent. Spanking is legal. Parents who are opposed to it should not use it. Parents who find it does work for their kids should use it when they see fit.

If your child is well behaved and feels loved then you are doing something right. If your child is badly behaved or doesn't feel loved, you might need to reevaluate how you are parenting. But if what you are doing is working, and it's legal, then it's no one else's business how you are parenting.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Nobody's prosecuting anyone. In fact, the only ones I see getting all emotional in this debate are the pro-spankers (admittedly I haven't read every single post). None of the anti-spankers has suggested that if you spank, you are therefore beating your child. That is as absurd as saying that if you raise your voice to your child, you are verbally abusive.

In fact, the research merely suggests that children who are spanked appear to be more likely to be more aggressive as they get older. That's it. It doesn't say if you spank, you're a bad parent or that you're abusive. It doesn't say that your child is definitely going to be messed up. It does suggest that perhaps it's a parenting risk not worth taking, especially when other methods of discipline can be effective when applied appropriately.

Actually, I think get upset when the research missed such a huge variable, the original disposition of the child. Well, that and the absurdity of some of the statements. I'm not strongly on either side. Some of my kids did better with a spank on the butt, and some better with a look, and others with timeouts. That is the point...each kid is different. What research has shown over and over again is that noatter how you choose to discipline, calmness and consistency are the truly important variables.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Just because a group says they adjusted for variables doesn't mean they got them all. That ones list said nothing about adjusting for the child...just the parent. Relationships take two.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

You should read all the posts. The anti-spankers have made it sound as if they are better parents than spankers and that spankers should 'improve their parenting skills'.

Teaching children that the way to solve a problem is through violence - how can that be a good thing?

There are studies that kids who are not spanked have a higher IQ and just last year there was a study that said spanking kids increases risk of sexual problems as adults.

Who could be pro-spanking?

 

[threecrazykids]

Teaching children that the way to solve a problem is through violence - how can that be a good thing?

There are studies that kids who are not spanked have a higher IQ and just last year there was a study that said spanking kids increases risk of sexual problems as adults.

Who could be pro-spanking?

Again...with the "studies show" comments...really? And "sexual problems" from being spanked? Damn...they can make studies show just about everything now can't they...

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Again...with the "studies show" comments...really? And "sexual problems" from being spanked? Damn...they can make studies show just about everything now can't they...

Feel free to read the Fox news story yourself about the sexual problems:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,333551,00.html

Listen - you want to hit your kids - and parent that way - go right ahead if you believe that is the right way to do things.

But I am allowed to have a different opinion.

 

[Plannin'Shannon]

And this is a perfect example of why the anti- vs. pro- spanking threads are so ridiculous. Kids are different. Spanking works for some kids, and it just makes things worse for other kids. You can do all the studies you want but the bottom line is that there is no one way to parent. Spanking is legal. Parents who are opposed to it should not use it. Parents who find it does work for their kids should use it when they see fit.

If your child is well behaved and feels loved then you are doing something right. If your child is badly behaved or doesn't feel loved, you might need to reevaluate how you are parenting. But if what you are doing is working, and it's legal, then it's no one else's business how you are parenting.

Where's the applause smiley when you need one?

 

[threecrazykids]

Feel free to read the Fox news story yourself about the sexual problems:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,333551,00.html

Listen - you want to hit your kids - and parent that way - go right ahead if you believe that is the right way to do things.

But I am allowed to have a different opinion.

I'm not saying anything necessarily about how YOU discipline, and yes we will agree to disagree...all I'm saying is that if you choose to discipline your kids based solely on studies you may not be receiving accurate information. It's all based on whether you believe everything you read or not I guess. More than likely you already believe what the study shows and you're using this "fact/statistic" to prove your belief.